You know Pompeii?

[dlamberth]

Any concept of "it was natural phenomenon, not Divine Judgment" is logically flawed as there is no such dilemma.

As I look around at nature...I think your logic is flawed.

.

 

[Zoness]

Any concept of "it was natural phenomenon, not Divine Judgment" is logically flawed as there is no such dilemma.

If God controls nature, that makes sense but I feel it augments my point:

It seems so pedestrian that a God who is truly transcendent would be so infuriated by his creation that he needs to destroy it to teach them a lesson. An unclear one, at that. That's how I see it.

 

[Redac]

What is the point of this kind of vengeful act of destruction anyway? Were the people of Pompeii supposed to know better than to get on the wrong side of a god they probably were barely even aware of?

It's like being at a beach, and some child accidentally kicks up sand onto your towel as he's running by, and so you decide that the best way to respond to that is to destroy his sand castle, throw his juice box into the ocean, and then punch him in the mouth for good measure.

 

[EnemyOfReason]

@EnemyOfReason, now I know you didn't choose your username just cause it sounded cool. I presume there must be a reason why you're an enemy of reason?

I chose it because it sounded cool. What about it?

 

[theophilus777]

I always wondered why a deity wouldnt just punish the responsible parties directly rather than just killing a whole bunch of randoms.

Not a single instance in the Judeo-Christian text do we see "randoms" punished.

How is it logically flawed exactly? I find it logically flawed to think that it is controlled by divinity. Also - not a phenomenon. These things happen in nature and it has been explained how volcanoe eruptions happen.

You disbelieve in any sort of Divinity whatsoever, correct? Of course you are not going to see this, but scientific explanation does not remove God from the process, it just tells us how it happens. (It is still entirely possible for naturally destructive phenomenon to occur that has nothing to do with Divine Judgment)

 

[theophilus777]

What is the point of this kind of vengeful act of destruction anyway? Were the people of Pompeii supposed to know better than to get on the wrong side of a god they probably were barely even aware of?

If its true that the citizens fled for the own lives, leaving their slaves tied and unable to escape, I think that speaks volumes about the sort of culture God had His fill of and decided to put an end to. I know if I were such a slave I would welcome that horrible death as justice being served, and prefer it to continuing that sort of existence.

Also, whatever social conditions led to that would surely have been known to surrounding areas that were untouched by the disaster, and this would serve as a somber warning not to follow in their footsteps.

Also I need to point out that those who've been beating up the OP over her position entirely miss the mark. First of all, she merely presents what her religion teaches on this particular subject, which is something I'd never heard of. That IS the point of this area of the website.

Second, she never offered any refute of archeological finds. She expressed healthy skepticism at ideas that were completely new to her, but gave a reasonable reply: those that escaped were still "punished." They lost their house, their land, their entire way of life, their slaves, etc. Those that disagree with the death penalty should find this more humane, right? Even better than our modern day prison (at least in the US)

 

[EnemyOfReason]

Not a single instance in the Judeo-Christian text do we see "randoms" punished.



You disbelieve in any sort of Divinity whatsoever, correct? Of course you are not going to see this, but scientific explanation does not remove God from the process, it just tells us how it happens. (It is still entirely possible for naturally destructive phenomenon to occur that has nothing to do with Divine Judgment)

May I add that scientific evaluations do not prove god either. The two are mutually incompatible when it comes to dogmatic religions. Science has disproved creation myths, history has disproved Christianity and philosophy has disproved Christian ethics.

This claim that science tells mankind how god does thing consists of 2 fallacies.
One is Occam's Razor and the other is Circular Reasoning.
You presume the existence of god and attribute every scientific claim to this deity. On top of this you presume the existence of a specific deity which is not even compatible with science and filter science through a christian lens.

 

[theophilus777]

May I add that scientific evaluations do not prove god either.

Obviously correct.

The two are mutually incompatible when it comes to dogmatic religions. Science has disproved creation myths, history has disproved Christianity and philosophy has disproved Christian ethics.

This statement only makes sense if you are an enemy of reason.

 

[elephunky]

Not a single instance in the Judeo-Christian text do we see "randoms" punished.

I do not refer to text but rather to claims in todays world about people being punished. Like people blaming that natural distater in new york on same sex marriages.

You disbelieve in any sort of Divinity whatsoever, correct? Of course you are not going to see this, but scientific explanation does not remove God from the process, it just tells us how it happens. (It is still entirely possible for naturally destructive phenomenon to occur that has nothing to do with Divine Judgment)

I think what you mean to say is that you do not believe that it removes god from the process.

 

[theophilus777]

I do not refer to text but rather to claims in todays world about people being punished. Like people blaming that natural distater in new york on same sex marriages.

Ok. Which one do you refer to?

I think what you mean to say is that you do not believe that it removes god from the process.

True, but also science says the same thing. Science simply doesn't address God, nor "why." Only how.

 

[elephunky]

Ok. Which one do you refer to?

There were quite a few across the united states and other countries that caused people to claim it was god sending punishment for letting people of the same sex get married.

The sepcific one I referred to was Hurricaine Sandy

True, but also science says the same thing. Science simply doesn't address God, nor "why." Only how.

It sometimes addresses the why. If you believe that God has a hand in the why then I personally do not have a problem with that. It is when people try to shout out and force people to subscribe to the idea that weather and natural distaster is used for punishment by a certain deity that I get annoyed.

 

[dcalling]

How does believing God/Allah destroyed Pompeii make someone an extremist?

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Pompeii might be destroyed by God. However it would be extremely dangers to affirm that Pompeii is destroyed by God because the sins of its citizens without any scripture to back it up (i.e. we know Sodome was destroyed by God, but it will be bad to blame the death Pompeii's citizens on themselves).

God said don't use his name in vain, so without the word of God and you affirm that some bad thing happened because God punished people, you are putting word in God's mouth.

It is much better to give word of prayer when tragedy happens, then to blame the dead.

 

[theophilus777]

There were quite a few across the united states and other countries that caused people to claim it was god sending punishment for letting people of the same sex get married.

The sepcific one I referred to was Hurricaine Sandy

Hmmm, I heard Sandy was exacerbated by HAARP and the woodpecker grid, but not due to SSM. That would be one back in the 90's. Fran maybe?

It sometimes addresses the why. If you believe that God has a hand in the why then I personally do not have a problem with that. It is when people try to shout out and force people to subscribe to the idea that weather and natural distaster is used for punishment by a certain deity that I get annoyed.

I agree with you there. No one can force anyone to believe anything.

 

[theophilus777]

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Pompeii might be destroyed by God. However it would be extremely dangers to affirm that Pompeii is destroyed by God because the sins of its citizens without any scripture to back it up (i.e. we know Sodome was destroyed by God, but it will be bad to blame the death Pompeii's citizens on themselves).

This thread was started by a Muslim, informing us of what Islam teaches on the subject. I think she pointed to the Koran on the topic, which would be her Scriptures.

It is much better to give word of prayer when tragedy happens, then to blame the dead.

Obviously. I don't think anyone would blame the dead if they are trying to credit God for a specific calamity. And clearly, we had better be very sure God wants to take credit for such a thing before we go pronouncing it.

 

[morningstar2651]

I have a simpler explanation of the tragedy of Pompeii that requires no divine judgement or punishment:

Building a city next to a volcano is dangerous.

 

[elephunky]

I have a simpler explanation of the tragedy of Pompeii that requires no divine judgement or punishment:

Building a city next to a volcano is dangerous.

 

[dlamberth]

I have a simpler explanation of the tragedy of Pompeii that requires no divine judgement or punishment:

Building a city next to a volcano is dangerous.

Bottom line, said volcano was and still is very active. No divine activity required. It's just the way nature swings.

.

 

[gord44]

I have a simpler explanation of the tragedy of Pompeii that requires no divine judgement or punishment:

Building a city next to a volcano is dangerous.

Get that rational thinking out of here. No place for it in this thread!

 

[morningstar2651]

Get that rational thinking out of here. No place for it in this thread!

Whoops! My bad.

Maybe the people of Pompeii angered a mountain fire goblin?

 

[gord44]

Whoops! My bad.

Maybe the people of Pompeii angered a mountain fire goblin?

That's better.