You know Pompeii?

[Silent Ocean]

Note: I don't reply to the following replies:

-a reply from someone blocked (I don't even read it) [specially that rude member from the Jin thread, you were blocked since early June].

-a reply that stating a point of view that I already answered.

***
If you have the freedom of replying, I have the freedom of blocking

 

[Zoness]

Mase I have an honest question:

Why even make forum threads if you're going to just ignore all contrasting opinions? I mean, if you want to talk about how much you love Islam without contest, wouldn't having a blog make more sense?

 

[ElShae]

It's been a blessing for me to have been freed from any concepts of a judgmental, vindictive and punishing for sin image of God. The God that I know is the essence of the creating force with in creation itSelf. Which leaves no room to be judgmental or punishing. So it always strikes me as totally ridiculous when ever I see claims of God destroying a city or the bringer of killer storms because of the perceived sins of the people who live there. From the perspective of this lover of God, that's about as judgmental as one can get.

.

Salam.
I think Mase Sero has stated clearly in her topic that it is in the point view of Islam not HER own point of view of how she sees Pompeii.

I find it quite interesting how you don't believe in punishment. If your daughter, for example, did something you weren't pleased with, let's say stealing money from you without your permission.. wouldn't you punish her so she learns the lesson and don't repeat it again? if you didn't, what are the odds of her doing it again? it's very likely. She won't understand what wrong she did. This is what happened in Pompeii and to other nations.
I find this article very summative to what happened in Pompeii in an islamic point of view:
thetruthexposed.webs.com/perishednations.htm

Something else I found quite interesting is your signature... "Love religion", out of curiosity what do you worship? Cupid?
Is your assumptions based on an evidence? or you were just trying to sound cool there? I'm confused..
Mohammed - peace be upon him, is not muslim? then why did he spread Islam?
Jesus is not Christian? then why did he spread christianity?
the same applies to the rest of your signature.

 

[ElShae]

[/B]Since god doesn't seem to step in when children are abused, women are raped, or governments commit genocide, all crimes that are certainly worse than liking material things and relationships (which isn't even a crime), I'm going to propose that the fate of Pompeii resulted from nothing more than building the city at the base of an active volcano.

In Islam we have two types of sins; the manifest and the hidden sins.
Allah forbids us from committing all sins and wicked deeds. Allah said: “and leave the manifest and hidden sin”. (6:120)
Also he said: “and do not approach the wicked deeds, the manifest and the hidden of them.” (6:151).
For this comment, I’d only explain what are the manifest sins. The manifest sins are those seen by others. Such as adultery, bribery, stealing… etc. The sinner here has two sins: the sin of the deed itself and the sin of showing the sin to others. That’s because it sets a bad example for others then this sin becomes so ordinary that the sinners does not realize it’s a sin and they carry on doing it in their daily lives. The person who commits a manifest sin in public carries the sins of it and the sins of those who follow his example.
Prophet Mohammed – Peace be upon him – said: “He who makes a good example in Islam, he will have it’s reward and the reward of all those who follow him without reducing any of their reward, and he who makes a bad example in Islam, he will have it’s sin and the sins of those who follow him, without reducing their sins”.

The main focus here is on adultery; so let’s talk about this from an Islamic point of view. Islam not only forbids adultery but also blocked all the ways leading to it; the Muslim if a man must not look directly to women and he must lower his gaze, the same applies to women. Muslims are not allowed to date or to have any relation beyond the marriage frame. The Islamic community separates between men and women in their daily interactions unless it’s necessary or where Allah allowed. Bare in mind that Allah does not forbid us from doing anything unless there is wisdom in doing so. Usually those forbidden things bring no good or usefulness to people. The wisdom here is to prevent spreading deadly diseases that exists because of adultery, foundlings and Allah knows what, he is after all the creator of the worlds and knows his creation better than us.

I believe this is what happened in Pompeii, adultery became so ordinary that lead to the widespread availability of sex and homosexuality beyond the frame of marriage in this city. What’s even more disgusting is that they did it even with animals… Researchers have confirmed that the people of this city have sex in public and in front of children and they were not ashamed of picturing these scenes and displaying it in their homes, cups, plates, jewelry but so proud.

 

[LoAmmi]

The bodies that were there were covered in ash. As they decayed, the impressions left showed what they were wearing. Pompeii was a Greek settlement and the belt was something used in other cities as well. You could actually see a loop on it that would be used to chain/tie them up so they wouldn't escape. I saw these things with my own eyes. I stood on the streets. I listened to the educated man as he pointed to the proof and pointed to the actual plaster molds of the people who had been buried by the ash that blanketed the city.

You are not entitled to your own facts to suit your theological desire.

Um LoAmmi, I'm a pretty hard core person. I don't believe that studying for most of one's life decreases the need of actual proof or the truth its self. As far as I remember the material of their cloths was not known (they did some experiments to discover its type, but still nothing decreases the need of actual proof or actual truth shall I say), I saw no actual seen belt, their body seemed all in one color (can you please put it as a pic so I see it?). More importantly, how can they ever be sure of the purpose of that belt? This city was destroyed over 1500 years ago. And whether there were some slaves that died or not, that is not my focus here, in my reply to you I highly disagreed about the part of non slaves escaping and slaves remaining. I believe that no one can escape God punishment, only whom God willed for them to leave. And if humans victimize poor or helpless humans while favoring and glorifying the rich, God doesn't. Just because their bodies weren't found, doesn't mean they 'escaped.' Allah (God) reveals to us some of examples, and hide other examples to unknown date. Once again, it happened more than 1500 years ago, and God knows in which form the others died and where is their remaining. Also, Allah (God) view us by our hearts not social or physical status (slaves/sick). Whomever had died from that city, and wherever, or whenever, and whatever form was their death happened without one inch of misjudgment, because Allah (God) is the All Mightily, All knowing, All forgiving, All Merciful, and so on in his remaining 95 names/characteristics. The closest to him in Islam perspective, are the most fearful of him and most faithful.


Anyhow~ I just wanted to show a piece of my faith regarding the statement of killing sick people and slaves, honestly I found it rude (my God can easily make the sick healed, or die due to sickness, can make the slave a master or die due to slavery. I believe his great punishments come for great sins, the greater the sin is, the greater the punishment is).Thus, If you have different perspective you can state it without ridiculing my words like that. I really would like to have people talking about their ideas in their religions rather than including me or my perspective in each statement they make to show me that I'm wrong or whatsoever.

I want to see the belt, thought it won't change my opinion on the matter.

 

[awitch]

I find it quite interesting how you don't believe in punishment. If your daughter, for example, did something you weren't pleased with, let's say stealing money from you without your permission.. wouldn't you punish her so she learns the lesson and don't repeat it again?

There's a slight difference between, say, grounding your daughter for stealing and destroying an entire city and all it's inhabitants (men, women, children, elderly) with molten lava.

 

[LoAmmi]

There's a slight difference between, say, grounding your daughter for stealing and destroying an entire city and all it's inhabitants (men, women, children, elderly) with molten lava.

No lava touched the city.

 

[awitch]

No lava touched the city.

OK, burying the city under ash.

 

[LoAmmi]

OK, burying the city under ash.

That's the one.

A slow moving ash cloud dependent on the wind that allowed most people to escape except those who couldn't leave for one reason or another.

I'm being rude, however, pointing out the facts of the event rather than the emotional idea of the city being destroyed by vengeance.

 

[ElShae]

There's a slight difference between, say, grounding your daughter for stealing and destroying an entire city and all it's inhabitants (men, women, children, elderly) with molten lava.

Yes, there a difference. However, the concept is still the same. The lesson must be learned.

 

[ElShae]

That's the one.

A slow moving ash cloud dependent on the wind that allowed most people to escape except those who couldn't leave for one reason or another.

I'm being rude, however, pointing out the facts of the event rather than the emotional idea of the city being destroyed by vengeance.

How do you explain the death of those who were hiding inside their houses or those who were in shelter? I'm sure clouds can't enter those..

 

[Silent Ocean]

Mase I have an honest question:

Why even make forum threads if you're going to just ignore all contrasting opinions? I mean, if you want to talk about how much you love Islam without contest, wouldn't having a blog make more sense?

I'm the master of my own actions, I don't need people's approval or consultation in order to make a forum threads as long as it's not against the term of use.Second, no it doesn't make sense, your set of sense and nonsense is different than me. Discussion and Debate thread is for discussing etc, but this read is about understanding other religions not debating or discussing them in open minded vs. close minded methods, k.

I mean, if you want to talk about how much you love Islam without contest,

Huh? My threads are not about how much I love Islam and if u view them that way doesn't mean I do, while as for my replies that's my business.

 

[LoAmmi]

How do you explain the death of those who were hiding inside their houses or those who were in shelter? I'm sure clouds can't enter those..

The roofs collapsed on them as nine feet of ash covered the house and then they were covered with the ash. There was a family who it is believed survived for 19 or so hours after until the roof finally gave way.

 

[ElShae]

The roofs collapsed on them as nine feet of ash covered the house and then they were covered with the ash. There was a family who it is believed survived for 19 or so hours after until the roof finally gave way.

mkalty.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/10445437_Pompeii-Excavations.jpg
Those vases and furniture looks in good shape after a roof collapsing, don't you think?

 

[LoAmmi]

mkalty.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/10445437_Pompeii-Excavations.jpg
Those vases and furniture looks in good shape after a roof collapsing, don't you think?

Why would we imagine that there wouldn't be furniture and such that survived? This isn't Loony Tunes where things compress flat when they are covered in ash. The roof didn't have to fall on them for the ash to cover them, it just needed to get though the roof.

Also, you're showing an entire catalog of findings. Where do you see that all of these came from inside houses?

 

[Eudaimonist]

According to the documentary movie about this city, it was destroyed 'suddenly.'

Volcanoes erupt suddenly. It was only a natural disaster. These things happen for no reason other than geological. You might as well ask why hurricanes happen.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

How do you explain the death of those who were hiding inside their houses or those who were in shelter? I'm sure clouds can't enter those..

Pyroclastic flow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Silent Ocean]

The bodies that were there were covered in ash. As they decayed, the impressions left showed what they were wearing. Pompeii was a Greek settlement and the belt was something used in other cities as well. You could actually see a loop on it that would be used to chain/tie them up so they wouldn't escape. I saw these things with my own eyes. I stood on the streets. I listened to the educated man as he pointed to the proof and pointed to the actual plaster molds of the people who had been buried by the ash that blanketed the city.

You are not entitled to your own facts to suit your theological desire.

I will answer the last statement first, no one has the right to force their perspective on me or tell me what I'm entitled to or not. Where is the pic? You keep saying and saying things, but show nothing, and you yourself saying 'the impressions left', and so the support that the belt is for slavery was taken from cities next to them? Sad your eyes are not mine, so what you see with your eyes are not something I saw, and even if I saw it and it really belonged to a slave, I believe I was clearer than a sun shine in my previous reply. You in your first reply shifted to a completely different topic, twisted my point to satisfy your 'theological desire' and ridicule my words. Now you made it a matter if it's slave or not and ignored my other words aside from my skepticism about the belt, why? My point again I repeat it for the third time, Allah (God) didn't punish the slaves without the wealthy people (you said the slaves died there and you brought up the sick in the topic and said the rest escaped). I say whether slave or not, when God's punishment befalls the sinners, there is no discrimination of social or physical status, just because people didn't find bodies without belts (all the bodies found with belts? Now back to the Hereculium -whatever the spelling is-you mentioned, there was a woman whom they believed to be wealthy, etc). So briefly> No one escapes from Allah (God) punishment, and slave or not the difference among all is the faith in God inside their hearts. That's my Islamic perspective, please don't omit 99.9 of what I said and mention the 0.1 which is in the belt belonging to a slave or not. I'm not asking you here to agree, but do not twist my point, which you did in ur first reply.

 

[ElShae]

Anyway, I've recently joined here and I find majority of arguments going on here specifically in this thread are very ridiculous, lol. People are not focusing on the main idea of this thread which is Pompeii from an islamic point of view, rather than that they're focusing on something that is quite irrelevant.. volcanos, cloud of ashes, roofs falling apart, blogs, opinions, judgments, pride, cupid... etc. It's not actually an opinion if you're attacking or mocking other's beliefs, that's an offense. We are here, in this thread to actually understand why Muslims believe what happened in Pompeii was as a result of Allah's wrath. Mase and I have clearly stated the islamic point of view explained to the best of our knowledge and beliefs. I think in exchange of that, other's who are from a different religion can explain their religion point of view NOT theirs as we are here to understand others' religions. and those who are from the same religion as Mase and I can add to what we've already covered or correct us if we're wrong.. simple as that.

 

[LoAmmi]

I'm sorry, I don't have any ready pictures for you.

It was a city of 20,000 and we've found around 2,000 bodies. Writers from the time, such as Pliny the Younger, stated that people escaped the city. So, yeah, most people escaped the city.