You do realize God put Trump in office right?

[Mountainmanbob]

 

[OrthodoxLady1994]

No I don't realize that, because I don't believe that, that is the case. Trump does not behave in a way that I would call Christ-like by any stretch. Some of the things he has said, done and suggested since the beginning of his campaign and now have made it difficult for me to see how this could possibly be meant to be.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

No I don't realize that, because I don't believe that, that is the case. Trump does not behave in a way that I would call Christ-like by any stretch. Some of the things he has said, done and suggested since the beginning of his campaign and now have made it difficult for me to see how this could possibly be meant to be.

Well said and I agree. As I said in another thread, if Donald Trump is the only presidential candidate the Religious Right could produce to represent their conservative political party and their Christian faith, then they have truly lost their way. Donald Trump doesn't represent the Christian faith or even Christian values by any stretch of the imagination. He's just pandering to his evangelical supporters.

 

[Halbhh]

Paul wrote often to situations.

Like the situation where some Jews wanted to rebel against Rome and start a revolution.

Actual situations. He wrote to not do that -- to just be a meek citizen, in effect, and to instead show Christ in our lives in our actions.

What does that mean?

It means to overturn the world itself with Christ!

Not a mere worldly, governmental change. Which would mean very little, almost nothing even.

A total revolution of the human life, total and complete change.

Instead.

So, the Government could be someone even like Nero, destructive, and Christians are just to keep to the civil law, and am for the real revolution.

That of faith in Christ.

 

[frienden thalord]

God is in control , he sets up all kings and casts down kings.
Even PHAROAH was raised up by GOD. but it sure don't mean HE APPROVES
of them. He even set Obama up . And I am sure you KNOW Obama did not Honor GOD..
nor does Trump.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

It seemed like Trump had some divine assistance from God during the election.

For example, the time when Trump's jet interrupted Ted Cruz was amazing timing.

On the other side of it was Hillary Clinton's freak misfortune of collapsing in public.

And a fly landed on HRC during the debates which didn't help her.

 

[exitstageright]

When the Book Of Romans was written,Communism type governments were not yet in existence. It is obvious that God did not establish communism. Because,Communists do not believe that God exists.Jesus said,"A house divided amongst it's self cannot stand." Therefore,it is ok,or right ,to rebel against a Communist Government.

 

[frienden thalord]

Well said and I agree. As I said in another thread, if Donald Trump is the only presidential candidate the Religious Right could produce to represent their conservative political party and their Christian faith, then they have truly lost their way. Donald Trump doesn't represent the Christian faith or even Christian values by any stretch of the imagination. He's just pandering to his evangelical supporters.

He is not what he appears to be . Trump did not come to save the church.
BUT TO CHANGE THE CHURCH. and most cannot see this at all.
Wait till we hear his POSITIVE CHRISTANITY . as his helpers
in high places in christanity mold their churches more and more.
Trump is NOT conservative. I voted for not a ONE of them. THEY HONOR NOT MY GOD.
The one spoken of in the BIBLE. none of the politicians do. sure some are worse than others.
Obama , that too was a lie when he tried to claim christanity. What deception .

 

[Hank77]

Paul wrote often to situations.

Like the situation where some Jews wanted to rebel against Rome and start a revolution.

Actual situations. He wrote to not do that -- to just be a meek citizen, in effect, and to instead show Christ in our lives in our actions.

I'm so glad to see that someone understands these scriptures. That both Jesus and Apostles were often times instructing about things that were going on in real life in their time and in their culture.

 

[Halbhh]

When the Book Of Romans was written,Communism type governments were not yet in existence. It is obvious that God did not establish communism. Because,Communists do not believe that God exists.Jesus said,"A house divided amongst it's self cannot stand." Therefore,it is ok,or right ,to rebel against a Communist Government.

Fighting a totalitarian communist government got plenty of people killed.

But ideas are what did actually end totalitarian communism.

Ideas. Over time. Just words and ideas.

When the wall fell, the iron curtain ended, it was because few anywhere were left that believed in the thing.

 

[CrystalDragon]

No I don't realize that, because I don't believe that, that is the case. Trump does not behave in a way that I would call Christ-like by any stretch. Some of the things he has said, done and suggested since the beginning of his campaign and now have made it difficult for me to see how this could possibly be meant to be.

So does that mean God is not in control of/determining/dictating/has a master plan for absolutely everything?

 

[SkyWriting]

No I don't realize that, because I don't believe that, that is the case. Trump does not behave in a way that I would call Christ-like by any stretch. Some of the things he has said, done and suggested since the beginning of his campaign and now have made it difficult for me to see how this could possibly be meant to be.

God planned every moment out before He formed the world.
He holds each electron in its orbit.

 

[CrystalDragon]

God is in control , he sets up all kings and casts down kings.
Even PHAROAH was raised up by GOD. but it sure don't mean HE APPROVES
of them. He even set Obama up . And I am sure you KNOW Obama did not Honor GOD..
nor does Trump.

If everything happens according to God's will, and he is all powerful and all-knowing, and has a grand in control plan, then everything that happens must be what he wants.

 

[Halbhh]

So does that mean God is not in control of/determining/dictating/has a master plan for absolutely everything?

I know that debate goes on and on, but it can be both. It can be He made us truly unpredictable, thus with actual (not just nominal) free will, and yet will accomplish His plan anyway. Both. I'm often content to allow some things to be too deep for us to plumb fully. Certain mysteries have been revealed to us, but not necessarily every mystery.

 

[CrystalDragon]

God planned every moment out before He formed the world.

Exactly. So everything that happens is something he wants.

 

[CrystalDragon]

I know that debate goes on and on, but it can be both. It can be He made us truly unpredictable, thus with actual (not just nominal) free will, and yet will accomplish His plan anyway. Both. I'm often content to allow some things to be too deep for us to plumb fully. Certain mysteries have been revealed to us, but not necessarily every mystery.

If he made us truly unpredictable, then they'd be unpredictable to him. In which case he wouldn't be all-knowing. In which case he'd cease to be "God" if we define "God" with th attributes of being all-knowing and all-powerful.

 

[SkyWriting]

Exactly. So everything that happens is something he wants.

It's something He planned. God is not willing that any should die
but that is part of His plans for it to happen. Only He can see the end results.

 

[Halbhh]

If he made us truly unpredictable, then they'd be unpredictable to him. In which case he wouldn't be all-knowing. In which case he'd cease to be "God" if we define "God" with th attributes of being all-knowing and all-powerful.

Sure. :=) I enjoy the speculation just as much as anyone. I'd peg "all knowing" as being the past and present, fully, every detail, but that if He intentionally designed true randomness into nature and/or the human spirit, then by His design, that would create an element of unpredictability, very similar to weather.

It's a lot like weather. You can predict a lot. If you have awesome radar, you can even see the tornado forming and warn ahead of time the right places, etc. That's not the 'omniscience' in the sense of total knowledge of the future (that particular kind), but it is total knowledge that is possible and effective in this example...yet it's plenty to accomplish key things. Especially if you are able to then act on it suddenly and totally and effectively.... See?

All of this speculation, just that -- speculation. Not more. Happy to learn I'm wrong tomorrow. Or had 1 part right, whatever. All the same.

 

[Hank77]

If everything happens according to God's will, and he is all powerful and all-knowing, and has a grand in control plan, then everything that happens must be what he wants.

This is God speaking. Does it sound like He wanted or ordained what the children of Israel were doing, burning their children as sacrifices to the Baal god Molech?

Jer 19:5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons with fire, burnt-offerings to Baal, that I commanded not, nor spake of, nor did it come up on My heart.

Here it is again......

Jer_32:35 And they build the high places of Baal, that are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come up on my heart to do this abomination, so as to cause Judah to sin.

It wasn't even in God's mind that they should do this abomination to their children. Not that He didn't know that they would but it was not His plan that they do it.
I get really sick of Christians blaming God for what sinful men do either from their own sinful nature or because they are tempted by satan. A loving God did not make this happen.

 

[Halbhh]

This is God speaking. Does it sound like He wanted or ordained what the children of Israel were doing, burning their children as sacrifices to the Baal god Molech?

Jer 19:5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons with fire, burnt-offerings to Baal, that I commanded not, nor spake of, nor did it come up on My heart.

Here it is again......

Jer_32:35 And they build the high places of Baal, that are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come up on my heart to do this abomination, so as to cause Judah to sin.

It wasn't even in God's mind that they should do this abomination to their children. Not that He didn't know that they would but it was not His plan that they do it.
I get really sick of Christians blaming God for what sinful men do either from their own sinful nature or because they are tempted by satan. A loving God did not make this happen.

What a powerful example. I was thinking of the "If you do ____, then I will do ____, but if you instead do _____, then I will do____ instead" passages. But this example is decisive to me, and the 2 together even moreso.