You did not chose Me, I chose you.

[BNR32FAN]

But it never bore fruit. So it was never useful.

John 15 could also be giving the same message in verse 2.

 

[BNR32FAN]

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
— John 10:27-29

If I have a grasshopper in my hand and say no one can snatch this grasshopper from my hand does that mean that the grasshopper can’t jump out of my hand?

 

[Hammster]

This is true, and your past old sins are not held against you when you come to Jesus. Then Jesus gives us who truly repent His Holy Spirit to walk in so you don't commit sins of the flesh. You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, IF indeed the Spirit of God indwells you. And anyone who doesn't have the Spirit of Christ, does not belong to Him. We have to become children of God, and no longer slaves to sin. Jesus provides that, if you truly repent and become born again of the Spirit.

You’re so close.

 

[Hammster]

Exactly. I believe I was saying that, brother. Unconditional election (Calvinism) is not true. Conditional Election is true.

That’s pretty prideful.

 

[renniks]

That would depend. Some of the yous are obviously those who are saved. We know that because they bear fruit, and the Vinedresser prunes them. The others are those who looked like they belonged (think Judas), and they are cast away.

You can't be in Christ and not be saved. It's nonsense to tell someone to stay in Christ if he was never in Christ to start with.

 

[Hammster]

John 15 could also be giving the same message in verse 2.

Yes. Not saved.

 

[Hammster]

If I have a grasshopper in my hand and say no one can snatch this grasshopper from my hand does that mean that the grasshopper can’t jump out of my hand?

If you are a noted grasshopper keeper, and I trust you to keep my grasshopper safe, and it gets away, will your excuse be “I kept the birds from getting it, but it jumped away”?

 

[Hammster]

You can't be in Christ and not be saved. It's nonsense to tell someone to stay in Christ if he was never in Christ to start with.

It’s not nonsense, though, to explain why there are some who looked like they were in Christ but never really were. See 1 John 2.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes. Not saved.

But Jesus specifically said

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬ ‭NASB‬‬

The branches that were cut off were in Christ.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm not seeing this in the verses you quote. If you know what to do and don't do it, that is willful sin. James is talking to Christians and listing thier willful sins. He calls them brothers and sisters.

Yes, 1 John 3 is talking about willful sins. Those are sins unto death. John is saying to not be deceived if you claim to be a Christian but still sin willfully, you are of the devil.

Remember, trespasses are not willful sins. You are not conscious of committing them, and Jesus is our Advocate for cleansing those we don't know of. 1 John 1:7, 1 John 2:1. Read 2 Peter 1 and your will see that by growing in the divine nature we can come to a place that we will never stumble. Revelation 22:11 shows us how important this is to be righteous or holy. They will stay that way forever, and no filthy or unrighteous person can enter heaven. And I'm not talking about the twisted doctrine of imputed righteousness. Either you yourself become willing to take part in walking in the Spirit and purifying yourself, or your apathetic soul will be in hell.

Does that help or not. 1 John 3:4 is the type of sin - lawlessness. If a person broke any of the Ten Commandments in the old covenant, they were put to death. No sacrifice covered willful sins. But there was a sacrifice for unintentional sins. Read Numbers 15:22-36). You see God sees our heart and our motives and will.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You’re so close.

Oh, and what is missing? You still have to tell us.

 

[Hammster]

But Jesus specifically said

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬ ‭NASB‬‬

The branches that were cut off were in Christ.

Then it’s the fault of the Vinedresser.


Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
— John 15:2

What is the result of pruning?

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you are a noted grasshopper keeper, and I trust you to keep my grasshopper safe, and it gets away, will your excuse be “I kept the birds from getting it, but it jumped away”?

Since when does God keep anyone against their will? God doesn’t force anyone to believe or have faith. We’re responsible for our own fate by our own choice. God simply enables those who are willing.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Then it’s the fault of the Vinedresser.


Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
— John 15:2

What is the result of pruning?

It’s right there in the verse.

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[Hammster]

Oh, and what is missing? You still have to tell us.

Grace. You practice legalism and dismiss grace.

 

[Hammster]

Since when does God keep anyone against their will? God doesn’t force anyone to believe or have faith. We’re responsible for our own fate by our own choice. God simply enables those who are willing.

Non sequitur. I’ve never said that we are kept against our will. I have said that Christ loses none that the Father gives Him (even though you disagree).

 

[CharismaticLady]

Grace. You practice legalism and dismiss grace.

No, I practice true biblical grace. I think you may believe what your church tells you that grace is, but it is erroneous.

 

[Hammster]

It’s right there in the verse.

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Exactly. Fruit is the evidence of salvation.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Non sequitur. I’ve never said that we are kept against our will. I have said that Christ loses none that the Father gives Him (even though you disagree).

Jesus was talking about the apostles that God gave Him, except one that scripture might be fulfilled.

Are you an apostle? You must be pretty old.

 

[Hammster]

No, I practice true biblical grace. I think you may believe what your church tells you that grace is, but it is erroneous.

Your legalism isn’t grace.