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Yet another "Mary" thread . . . . .

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Asinner

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Why do you all have a problem with sex in a marriage? Is this something that the catholic church teaches against or something.. You act as if it is sin and ungodly.. This is found no where in scripture. Hebrews says different. Genesis says different.. This is a beautiful act that God has given to married couples.. You act as if it is taboo..

It has been stated on this thread that God has sanctified marriage through the Sacrament of Marriage. We do not believe it is impure or sinful or ungodly. Do I need to repeat this again . . . We do not believe it is impure or sinful or ungodly. It is not as high a state as virginity though, and Paul himself, attests to this in 1Corinthians 7.

Love,
Christina:)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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It has been stated on this thread that God has sanctified marriage through the Sacrament of Marriage. We do not believe it is impure or sinful or ungodly. Do I need to repeat this again . . . We do not believe it is impure or sinful or ungodly. It is not as high a state as virginity though, and Paul himself, attests to this in 1Corinthians 7.

Love,
Christina:)
A pregnancy of any woman implies being a non-virgin whether it is a spiritual birth or natural.
Let me ask this. If donor sperm is given to a woman to get pregnant, would she still be considered a virgin? Just curious.
 
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Asinner

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A pregnancy of any woman implies being a non-virgin whether it is a spiritual birth or natural.
Let me ask this. If donor sperm is given to a woman to get pregnant, would she still be considered a virgin? Just curious.

How does this relate to what I said? :confused:
 
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BBAS 64

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Good Day, WA

Matthew originally wrote his in Aramaic....as was the language of Christ.

Where could I get a copy of the Aramaic text?

I have heard it said he wrote in hebrew, but Aramaic that is a new one one me.

In Him,

Bill
 
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IamAdopted

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Gen
28 And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth

Did He then say childbirth literally later?
And with pain?

Prior, we could have given birth like the bees who need no partners.
What does that have to do with what God told them to do before the fall.. He cursed them and said that there would be pain in child birth. He told Adam that he would have to work the land. So now what does this have to do with the commandment of God.. They did't rebel until they ate. and this in one of the first commandments that God gave To Adam and Eve.. So them being pure until that time would have obeyed God.. For they were pure..
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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:D
Btw, how come the Bible never shows what happened to Eve? And why is only the Adam cast out of the garden? I may have to study more on these 2 verses though the LORD does appear to name both as One Adam in 5:2. Thoughts?

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/

Gene 3:23 And Yahweh 'Elohiym is sending/shalach him away from garden of Eden to serve the ground which from there he was taken.
24 And He is expelling/garash <ath> the 'adam, and he is dwelling from east to garden of Eden, 'ath' the cherubim and 'ath' flame of the sword, the one turning himself, to guard/keep 'ath' way of tree of the living ones.

Gene 5:2 Male and Femal He created them, and He is blessing them and He is calling <ath> name of them, Adam, in day to be created them.

Did I miss this?

Sorry, but I don't really understand the question.

I had always understood that Eve was with Adam. Why would you think differently?

BTW ~ This is getting off topic.

Forgive me...
 
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IamAdopted

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God made man and woman.. Adam and Eve were to have children to fill the earth.. This was commanded before the fall.. That is why woman was made to be a helper to man.. Male and female He created them.. God said it wasn't good for man to be alone. He wanted them to populate the earth.. So He made female.. How did He create the Female? Out of the rib of Adam..'This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh, she shall be called woman because she was taken out of man.' For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife and they shall become one flesh and the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed." What was there to be ashamed of? There wasn't any sin. This is why Adam and Eve were created.. To populate the earth...
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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Good grief! We all have to live up to Jesus. But, nevermind that. Remember Mary and His "brethren" who wished to pull him away from the crowd because they thought he was loco? Doesn't look like Jesus' "brethren" be they cousins or whatnot were too reverent of Him.



Where would I find the source of this information?



Does it say this in the Proto of James? Because, they rushed her out of the temple because they were afraid of her mensas defiling her . . . . . :confused:

From "The Life of The Virgin Mary, The Theotokos"

Chapter XIX

CHRIST Shows Who is His Mother, Brother and Sister


Early in His public ministry, at Capernaum, Christ healed many, absolved sins, and rebuked unclean spirits, yet the Pharisees sought how to destroy Him [Mk. 3:6].

&#8220;And they (Jesus and His Twelve Disciples) went into a house. And the multitude cometh together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread. And when His friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on Him: for they said, &#8216;He is beside Himself&#8221; (Mk. 3:19-211.)

The words &#8220;lay hold&#8221; of Jesus could hardly be attributed to His Mother. The all-holy Virgin, having witnessed so many prophecies fulfilled in her Son and the many miracles He performed, could hardly be disturbed by His conduct. Nor did she believe that He was of a weak mind and needed to be bound, though we read that several of His kindred desired to do this. We read that His relatives (ee par aftoo) and friends thought that He was &#8220;beside Himself&#8221; [Mk. 3:21]. Scribes from Jerusalem remarked that &#8220;He hath Beelzebub, and by the princes of the devils casteth He out devils&#8221; IMk. 3:221. But it is impossible to believe that the Virgin-Mother conceived of any abnormality or possession in her Son.5

&#8220;There came then His brethren and His Mother, and, standing outside, sent unto Him, calling Him. And the multitude sat about Him, and they said unto Him, &#8216;Behold, Thy Mother and Thy brethren outside seek for Thee&#8221; IMk.3:31-321.

While Jesus was preaching the way of life and the kingdom of God, and actively engaged in the healing of infirmities of both body and soul, His brethren arrive, though His disciples were always in attendance with Him. His relatives are absent and, now that they turn up, they cannot wait, but prefer to interrupt Him and wish to call Him away from His great and solemn work. Indeed, persons so near to Him &#8220;stood without&#8221;, while strangers hung on His every word.

&#8212; - Blessed John Maximovitch

(1896-1966) comments that &#8220;even though full of grace, she did not yet fully understand in what the service and the greatness of her Son would consist. The Hebrew conceptions of the Messiah were still close to her, and natural feelings caused her to be concerned for Him. This included preserving Him from labors and dangers which appeared excessive.&#8221;6

Continuing, he writes that she supported His mission and preaching. However, in this case she did not voluntarily desire to interrupt His preaching, but was pressed by the brethren to accompany them in their seeking Him outside.7

When they brought Jesus&#8217; Mother with them, it was only that their meeting with Jesus might have greater authority. They knew that they could not prevent Him, for, according to Jewish law, a man over thirty years of age could be independent and had the right to interpret Scripture in the synagogue.

The conflict in Jesus&#8217; family was not brought about by the all-holy Virgin, but by the conduct of His brethren who decided to interfere in His preaching, &#8220;for neither did His brethren believe in Him&#8221; [Jn. 7:5].8

These actions evoked His asserting the superiority of spiritual to bodily kinship. &#8220;And He answered them, saying, &#8216;Who is My mother or My brethren?&#8217; And He looked round about on them which sat about Him, and said, &#8216;Behold My mother and My brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is My brother, and My sister, and mother&#8221; IMk. 3:33-351.

Out of all humanity, who else might be named as the one who most did the will of God? Is it not His Mother?
Keeping in mind the deep reverence among Jews for parents, He, of all in Israel, would never be disrespectful to His Mother. There was a higher meaning to His words. Once again, as when He was a twelve year old lad, He is again saying to His beloved Mother that He was about His Father&#8217;s business [Lk. 2:49].

Saint Cyril of Alexandria (+444) says, &#8220;Do not let anyone imagine that Christ spurned the honor due to His Mother, or contemptuously disregarded the love owed to His brethren; for He it was Who spake the law by Moses, and clearly said, &#8216;Honor thy father and thy mother, that it may be well with thee.&#8217; And how, I pray, could He have rejected the love due to brethren Who even commanded us to love not merely our brethren, but those who stand in relation to us of foes? For He says, &#8216;Love thine enemies&#8217; [Mt. 5:44; Lk. 6:27, 35]. What, therefore, does Christ wish to teach? His object then is to highly exalt His love towards those who are willing to bow the neck to His commandments....The greatest honors, and the most complete affection is that which we all owe to our mothers and brethren. If, therefore, He says that they who hear His word and do it are His mother and brethren, is it not plain to every one, that He bestows on those who follow Him a love thorough and worthy of their acceptance? Thus He would make them readily embrace the desire of yielding themselves to His words, and of submitting their minds to His yoke, by means of complete obedience.

&#8220;In order, then, that Christ may win us all unto obedience, He promises us surpassing honors, and deigns us the highest love, saying, &#8216;My mother and My brethren are those who hear the word of God and do it.&#8217; Therefore, when bowing our neck to the Saviour&#8217;s commands, we become His followers, so also are we in relation to Him as a mother and as brethren. And how will He regard us at the judgment seat? Is it not with gentleness and love? What doubt can there be of this? What is comparable to this honor and goodness? What is there worthy of being matched with a gift thus splendid and desirable?&#8221;9

Saint Ambrose (339-397) based his doctrine of spiritual fecundity on the words of Jesus. &#8220;Through the Gospel there are many fathers and many mothers who bring forth Christ. Who then will show me the parents of Christ? He Himself did so when he said, &#8216;Who is My mother? And who are My brethren?&#8217; And He stretched forth His hand toward His disciples, and said, &#8216;Behold My mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of My Father Who is in the heavens, the same is My brother, and sister, and mother&#8217; [Mt. 12:48-50]. Do the will of the Father that thou mightest be a mother of Christ. Many have conceived Christ, but did not give birth to Him.&#8221;10

Hence, from this event, we draw this conclusion: The Saviour desired to show that spiritual kinship is higher than blood relationship. Saint Basil (c.330-379) rightly comments &#8220;that intimacy with the Lord is not to be explained in terms of kinship according to the flesh, but it is achieved by alacrity in doing the will of God.&#8221;11 Christ will also utter, &#8220;Ye are My friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you&#8221; [Jn. 15:14]. Family relationships cannot be placed on a higher level than service to God. Christ foreknew that His disciples would encounter not only enemies from without, but they would encounter enmity and malice from their blood relatives.

Before sending the disciples out to preach, He said to them, &#8220;Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword....A man&#8217;s foes shall be those of his own household&#8221; [Mt. 10:34, 36].

Elsewhere, we hear the Master saying, &#8220;He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me&#8221; [Mt. 10:37]. Later in the Gospel of St. Mark, the Lord tells His disciples that assuredly &#8220;there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the Gospel&#8217;s who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time- -houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life&#8221; [Mk. 10:29-30]. How strange it would have seemed to His audience, after having taught them not to esteem mother, or father, or brothers, as highly as the word of God, that He should abruptly break off from them and leave the word of God as soon as His relatives are announced to Him.

Saint Hilary of Poitiers (+358), on this incident, proposes that &#8220;since He came into His own and His own did not receive Him, in His Mother and brothers the synagogue and the Israelites are foreshadowed, refraining from entry and approach to Him.&#8221;12

Some have gone so far as to say that the Virgin-Mother did this out of maternal vanity or ostentation to summon Jesus to her outside the house. On the contrary! The opposite could well have been her motive. On account of her past history of reservedness, modesty, diffidence and meekness, she would not have wished to make a show of herself in front of so great a crowd; for she did everything out of love and humility.

THE KINSMEN OF CHRIST

Blessed John Maximovitch writes that it is incorrect to think that the brothers and sisters of Christ were the uterine children of His Mother, the Ever-Virgin Mary. The name brother and sister signified a certain kinship between people. Saint Epiphanios of Cyprus (c.315-403) asserts that nowhere can it be seen in the Gospel that the siblings of Jesus were considered the children of Mary. On the contrary, it was known that they were the children of Joseph. 13

Extended family appellations, such as cousin or nephew, have no distinguishing word in the Hebrew and Aramaic. For example, since they have no word for &#8220;cousin&#8221;, the Hebrew word &#8216;ah (brother) is used in the Old Testament for kinsman. The Septuagint has translated this word as adeiphos. Thus, Laban will call his nephew Jacob adeiphos or brother [Gen. 29:15]. The righteous Elisabeth, who is first cousins with the Virgin, is called her &#8220;kinswoman&#8221; (syngenis). In modern Greek the word anepsios has taken on the meaning of &#8220;nephew&#8221;, and never to be interchanged with &#8220;brother&#8221; (adeiphos) or &#8220;cousin&#8221; (exadeiphos). Yet, in the Old Testament, the Greek word anepsios is translated as &#8220;cousin&#8221; [Num. 36:12; Tobit 7:2]. In the New Testament Greek, the word describing Marcus&#8217; relationship with Barnabas is that of anepsios, which has also been translated as cousin [Col. 4:1O]14 or, as in the King James Version, &#8220;Marcus, sister&#8217;s son to Barnabas&#8221;, which really makes Marcus the nephew of Barnabas. The Aramaic of the Peshitta translates it as the &#8220;cousin to Barnabas.&#8221;15 But the influence of the Septuagint, if used strictly, would dictate use of the other word, adeiphos. Papyri from contemporary Egypt show similar use of the broad meaning of the word adeiphos. We also see the broad use of the word adeiphos occur in the Gospels, Epistles and Revelation with the same general sense. Thus, when we read of the &#8220;brethren of the Lord&#8221;, we must understand it as His foster brothers or His extended family of cousins or nephews, and not as uterine brothers.

JESUS REPROVES HIS KINSMEN

After a while we learn that &#8220;Jesus walked in Galilee: for He would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill Him. Now the Jews&#8217; Feast of Tabernacles was at hand. His brethren said unto Him, &#8216;Depart, hence, and go into Judea, that Thy disciples also may see the works that Thou doest. For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If Thou doest these things, shew Thyself to the world.&#8217; For neither did His brethren believe in Him&#8221; IJn. 7:1-51.

What is the attitude of Christ&#8217;s brethren? These verses do not seem to indicate that His brothers did not believe that He wrought miracles, but that they had not submitted to His claim to be the Messiah. They required to see Him publicly acknowledged before they could believe. Thus they urge Him to present Himself in Jerusalem, though the Jews sought to slay Him. However, we just read that He would not walk in Jerusalem of Judea. Saint Basil comments here that &#8220;We should retreat in good time before them that seek to ensnare us&#8221; and &#8220;that no one should place himself in the way of temptation before God permits, but we should pray not to fall into temptation.&#8221;16

St. John Chrysostom (354-407) comments that &#8220;They exhort Him to work miracles. But their words came from their unbelief, their insolence, and unseasonable freedom of speech. Owing to their relationship with Him, they address Him boldly. Their words seem to be that of friends but, in truth, they are words of great maliciousness and bitterness. They reproach Him with cowardice and vainglory. When they say, &#8216;no man doeth anything in secret,&#8217; is the expression of charging Him with cowardice and then to add the words, &#8216;he seeketh to be known&#8217; was accusing Him of vainglory. Their unbelief came from an evil mind and from envy; for superiority among kindred is wont somehow to be envied by them that are not likewise exalted.&#8221;17

Hence, the Lord reproves His kinsmen for their ambition and boldness, saying, &#8220;My time is not yet come: but your time is always ready. The world cannot hate you; but Me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil. Go ye up unto this feast: I am not yet going up to this feast; for My time has not yet fully come&#8221; Un. 7:6-81.

In closing, the kinsmen of the Lord ultimately came to believe in our Saviour, and became His disciples.

Forgive me...
 
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Asinner

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Any ideas how exactly . . . . . :scratch:

How did He create Adam and Eve? His Creation?

There is also a deeper meaning to being "fruitful and multiplying" than procreation. Is our purpose as humans to procreate? Or is there a deeper purpose? IamAdopted seems to believe that our purpose is the former, whereas the Orthodox understanding is Theosis and communion with God. Marriage was created after the fall to prevent humanity from ceasing to exist. Before the fall, Adam and Eve were in full communion with God, walking with Him, and immortal. This is important in understanding why the Theotokos was ever-virgin. Through Christ, humanity is restored to what it was before the fall and Mary is our new Eve who said yes to God and through which Salvation came. Sexual relations is the fallen state. Mary remained Pure just as Eve was before the fall.

Love,
Christina:)
 
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IamAdopted

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Adam and Eve were created to populate the earth.. This is why God created them male and female.. This is why God created even the animals.. This is why Noah had to take one of each on the ark.. To once again populate the earth..
 
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racer

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I believe WA's questions were rhetorical. :angel:

Love,
Christina
Then they were non-sensical and inapplicable . . . . .

Even at that, they would only have worked in a rhetorical sense if one could say for certain that angels do not procreate with each other . . . .
 
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