Yet Another False Accusation!!!!!

[Biblewriter]

You will ever be searching for a fulfillment to Ezek 38, we have simply passed the point where horses are viable technology in war.

This will be after God has already demonstrated that modern weapons will not be effective against him. They will come on horses with wooden weapons. I think that is because they will think He only has weapons effective against metal.

 

[Keachian]

This will be after God has already demonstrated that modern weapons will not be effective against him. They will come on horses with wooden weapons. I think that is because they will think He only has weapons effective against metal.

Those two planks of wood that killed my God, that stretched him out and took his life, the blood poured out, creation mute all for that wood that killed my God. Now hark, do you hear? That little trumpet once so clear, what once was dirge now bursts forth as the death of death is here. What power is this? What could this be, lo the Son of God appear. Brilliant, magnificent that epitaph now read not for God but for death, O Death you are swallowed up in victory, where is your victory you so proudly claimed? Where is the sting that you thought you had? You have been striped of your power in the death and now life of love.

 

[Shocker]

If u guys are talking about the 200,000,000 horsemen in Rev, u need to keep reading because those aren't horses they are using..

 

[Notrash]

You will ever be searching for a fulfillment to Ezek 38, we have simply passed the point where horses are viable technology in war.

Amen. And I note thy psychosis of his response.

They will think that modern weaponry is futile but horse and bow/arrow are not.??!
Book, chapter & verse please.

BW's continued use of exclamatory adjectives attempt to demand that they be understood as not yet fulfilled for some reason or another. No one denies that the prophecies are actual and 'explicit or clear. Wat is missed (as stated before) is that they are understood from the time perspective and circumstances of the people to whom they are prophecied, not from the time they are read.

Was Judea re-inhabited from the time and circumstances of Ezekiels, Jer and Daniels day. YES!!!!

AND a second time they were brought back after the judgement by sword in 70 AD. (EZ 38:8 in preparation for the double honour to the believers who had endured and continued ti endure persecutions at the hands of the jews.

This is simple hermeneutics of historical observatiion.

I don't begin to hope to persuade people like BW who are staunch dispys, but it irks me that these doctrines (obviously not promoted just by BW) effect
individuals, life, society and even politics.

I confess that 132-135 (rather than 70 AD) as being gog/magog has been a recent consideratiin and conclusion,(maybe two yrs) but as time goes on it becomes more confirmed and supported by parallel (and sometimes seemingly unparallel prophecies)
Here is a link to another forum where It is presented. I also comment in the milleniums meaning.

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.php?181545-Isaiah-7-8-forecast-132-135-AD


Good chatting.
...

 

[Shocker]

Why don't preterists and amils acknowledge that the horses in revelation are not horses at all.

Horses don't have heads like lions and they don't shoot fire and brimstone out of their mouths.

So funny how you guys dodge answering this..

 

[Keachian]

Why don't preterists and amils acknowledge that the horses in revelation are not horses at all.

Horses don't have heads like lions and they don't shoot fire and brimstone out of their mouths.

So funny how you guys dodge answering this..

Well we're talking about Ezek 38 to start with.

 

[Shocker]

Well we're talking about Ezek 38 to start with.

Wait, you think eze38 is past?

What evidence do you have for this war occurring in history?

 

[Keachian]

Wait, you think eze38 is past?

What evidence do you have for this war occurring in history?

If only for the reason that cavalry has ceased to be a valid form of warfare since before Israel was "restored" again. Not to mention that Ezekiel doesn't really see much past the return to the land.

 

[Biblewriter]

Was Judea re-inhabited from the time and circumstances of Ezekiels, Jer and Daniels day. YES!!!!

Was Israel ever again inhabited by "all the house of Israel, all of it"? Most absolutely not.

 

[Shocker]

If only for the reason that cavalry has ceased to be a valid form of warfare since before Israel was "restored" again. Not to mention that Ezekiel doesn't really see much past the return to the land.

And it doesn't strike you as odd that the eze38 war has yet to be accounted for historically????

 

[Biblewriter]

And it doesn't strike you as odd that the eze38 war has yet to be accounted for historically????

But of course, they claim that an attack on Judah by an army from Rome, in which the Jewish army was wiped out, a fulfillment of a prophecy about an attack on Israel, not Judah, by Russia, all of western Europe, all of Africa, and Iran, in which all Israel is kept safe.

This is a typical example of the absurdity of Preterism. They take an event in history that faintly resembles a few details of a prophecy and claim that is its fulfillment, while totally ignoring the many details that were unquestionably not fulfilled.

 

[Shocker]

But of course, they claim that an attack on Judah by an army from Rome, in which the Jewish army was wiped out, a fulfillment of a prophecy about an attack on Israel, not Judah, by Russia, all of western Europe, all of Africa, and Iran, in which all Israel is kept safe.

This is a typical example of the absurdity of Preterism. They take an event in history that faintly resembles a few details of a prophecy and claim that is its fulfillment, while totally ignoring the many details that were unquestionably not fulfilled.

Brother, it's the beign of Christianity.

I didn't even know preterists and amils existed until I came to this forum, nothing they say makes sense.


If you give them a verse that disproves them, they just change what the verse says to suit their doctrinal beliefs.

satan is a deceiver..

 

[Interplanner]

Shock,
that's why I'm a historian first, theologian second. The NT is historical, so there is 'stereo' when it comes to finding out what it means; you can corroborate, or not. I notice Jesus and the apostles spent no time on the chapters that futurists are so engrossed in: Ezekiel's final war, some parts of Daniel, etc.

When I say history, I mean that when the NT officially uses an OT passage, the deal is done. We can't undo that. You can't have your own view like BW and go somewhere else with it. It's done and over. For ex., David's fallen tent raising up is the nations believing the Gospel. The issue is closed; it is historical; the interp is like any other piece of archeology, to be respected and left alone. Futurism largely has no idea what to do with the NT's use of the OT.

 

[Shocker]

Shock,
that's why I'm a historian first, theologian second. The NT is historical, so there is 'stereo' when it comes to finding out what it means; you can corroborate, or not. I notice Jesus and the apostles spent no time on the chapters that futurists are so engrossed in: Ezekiel's final war, some parts of Daniel, etc.

When I say history, I mean that when the NT officially uses an OT passage, the deal is done. We can't undo that. You can't have your own view like BW and go somewhere else with it. It's done and over. For ex., David's fallen tent raising up is the nations believing the Gospel. The issue is closed; it is historical; the interp is like any other piece of archeology, to be respected and left alone. Futurism largely has no idea what to do with the NT's use of the OT.

I disagree, futurism depends on the OT to verify the NT, and the reciprocal..

Gods word cannot disagree with itself, doesn't work like that..

 

[Interplanner]

well have a look at David's fallen tent, then. Acts 15. It is so obviously not what was envisioned by Amos, and it is the clinchpin of the Jerusalem conference on the nations!

It is not a contradiction if the whole thing was about Christ to begin with! This is what Paul means in Rom 16's final remarks. It was embedded there the whole time but not seen until God's decree/command now. So if we look at it literally today apart from its meaning in Christ we will also miss it. This view shatters all OT literalism, and BW too.

 

[Shocker]

well have a look at David's fallen tent, then. Acts 15. It is so obviously not what was envisioned by Amos, and it is the clinchpin of the Jerusalem conference on the nations!

It is not a contradiction if the whole thing was about Christ to begin with! This is what Paul means in Rom 16's final remarks. It was embedded there the whole time but not seen until God's decree/command now. So if we look at it literally today apart from its meaning in Christ we will also miss it. This view shatters all OT literalism, and BW too.

Sorry, the OT is literal concerning the coming of Messiah.

Zec_9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Mat_21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.



You have just been educated on how literal OT prophecy is.


You are welcome.

 

[Notrash]

Was Israel ever again inhabited by "all the house of Israel, all of it"? Most absolutely not.

There's that word absolutly. Can't you let facts speak for themselves? Acts 2:5-11.
Are you trying to reassure yourself?

Furthermore the people descended from tribes of Israe, who were considered "not a people" were among those to reinhabit the land after the judgement by sword of 70AD. (Ez 38:8; Is 66:19,20)

 

[Interplanner]

The problem with the donkey ride Shock is that the literal crowd is over in Jn 12:34 thinking that the Messiah will reign forever in the usual sense. The donkey ride was a paradox hinting against that vision. He wasn't going to reign like David forever. In a way, I understand, it appears to be literal, but the thing to be resolved is why the lofty visions of the OT were said to be fulfilled in the humble carpenter guy by the apostles.

David's fallen tent rising was the nations coming into the Gospel. That is the innovative, Christocentric usage I am referring to. Judaism, futurism, D'ism and literalism all share the same blindspot about that.

 

[Shocker]

The problem with the donkey ride Shock is that the literal crowd is over in Jn 12:34 thinking that the Messiah will reign forever in the usual sense. The donkey ride was a paradox hinting against that vision. He wasn't going to reign like David forever. In a way, I understand, it appears to be literal, but the thing to be resolved is why the lofty visions of the OT were said to be fulfilled in the humble carpenter guy by the apostles.

David's fallen tent rising was the nations coming into the Gospel. That is the innovative, Christocentric usage I am referring to. Judaism, futurism, D'ism and literalism all share the same blindspot about that.

You are a fool.

Messiah was prophesied to arrive on the foal of an ass.

He fulfilled the prophecy literally.


I rebuke your teachings in the Name of Jesus Christ.

May God bind the spirit of corruption that lives in you..

 

[Notrash]

Here, once again, you are using your interpretation of the meaning of a few scriptures as an excuse to disbelieve an host of other scriptures.

This wss in response to my affirmation that the seed of Israel (of jer 31) is the seed of Christ much like the seed if Abraham does not refer to physical descendancy but to people of a like faith as Abraham ansd the justification by that faith.

This is readily supported in the context of Jer 31 speaking of the new covt (as well as deut 30:6-14, ez:36 & 37) and by Paul in Rom 9 in explaining that "all Israel" is not referring to the physical descendants (Is 9:8) but includes even those of the nations (Rom 9:24)

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel were also a fireimage of the trancendance/incarnation (Isaac) and indwelling (jacob/Israel) of the GOOD Father/Creator..

In 1 john 4:2-4 john affirms that christ remains coming in the flesh (indwelling) and in conjunction with Ijer 31, that indwelling presence is continual and perpetual, growing generation after generation.

Who to BW is the "seed of Israel"?