Yet Another False Accusation!!!!!

[Notrash]

Will Elias come again also as a literal fulflment?

 

[Biblewriter]

There's that word absolutly. Can't you let facts speak for themselves? Acts 2:5-11.
Are you trying to reassure yourself?

Furthermore the people descended from tribes of Israe, who were considered "not a people" were among those to reinhabit the land after the judgement by sword of 70AD. (Ez 38:8; Is 66:19,20)

I now that you do not like absolutes. But I do not write for your benefit, but to disprove your allegations.

There cannot be even a particle of a doubt that absolutely all of Israel never returned to their land. And anyone who denies that this is not an absolutely known fact is either an ignoramus, an idiot or a liar.

 

[Shocker]

I now that you do not like absolutes. But I do not write for your benefit, but to disprove your allegations.

There cannot be even a particle of a doubt that absolutely all of Israel never returned to their land. And anyone who denies that this is not an absolutely known fact is either an igramous, an idiot or a liar.

Its beyond tomfoolery..


Its fullblown antichrist doctrine.


I honestly don't understand how they come up with it.. I mean, the Bible is in black and white.

If something is an allegory or sign, it tells us.

Otherwise, I don't see why Gods words have to be twisted and contorted so much to make an agenda fit for the preterists and amils..



Just doesn't make sense how people buy into that mess..

 

[Old Timer]

Just doesn't make sense how people buy into that mess..

I don't believe they have bought it either.. they're simply trolls who hate the truth, Israel, Christ.. anything but the truth really.

What I don't understand is how people can't see that.

 

[Shocker]

I don't believe they have bought it either.. they're simply trolls who hate the truth, Israel, Christ.. anything but the truth really.

What I don't understand is how people can't see that.

I guess some old people think having a computer is a license to instruct.


"ooh, the interwebz, now my epic prophetic skillz can be demonstrate to all"



The ego is a funny thing... Makes people say just about anything...

 

[Notrash]

I now that you do not like absolutes. But I do not write for your benefit, but to disprove your allegations.

There cannot be even a particle of a doubt that absolutely all of Israel never returned to their land. And anyone who denies that this is not an absolutely known fact is either an ignoramus, an idiot or a liar.

My, my, BW can ger nasty when faced with facts.

Furthermore, BW previously agreed that Ez 36:25-27; 34:25 37:14 & similar passages were referring to the same new covt ordinances wrought by Christ as prophesied in Deut30:6-14 & Jer 31. Deut 30:6-14 is directly after the return from captivity (deut 30:1-5) which
Daniel affirms in ch 9 to refer to and BE the BABYLONIAN captivity. Ezekiel was also in this captivity at the time of his recieving further words of the coming new covt.

Furthermore, Paul affirms deut 30:6-14 as pertaining to and fulfilled through the indwelling of Christ in Rom 10:5-8!!!!!!!

Thus the new covt could only come after 'all Israel' had re-inhabited the land. If the new covt came, then obviously AND ABSOLUTLY, WITHOUT QUESTION, CLEARLY whatever was meant by all Israel returning to the land from babylinian and Assyrian dispersion had occurred!!!!

IF all Israel, every one of them' didn't return to the land in whatever meaning God intended for those words, then Christ COULD NOT have extablished the new/Everlating covt of Grace through faith.

And in postponing the kingdom of the ordinances of the new covt wrought and delivered through Christ, dispensationalism denues the indwelling, establishment, favor, or power of the new covt.

Could it be that some need to re-consider what God meant by 'all'? In the context in the surrounding chs of Ez we find mention of the joining of the two sticks, etc. The northern tribes were considered gentile, goy, samaratain, dirtbags, scum, cut off etc. Could God simply have been using the word "all" to explain tat these hated peoples too would both re-inhabit the land AND BE PARTAKERS of the new covt as again acts 2 testifies.

Yes, rather than demanding that every last jew/Israelite be living within the confines of judea BEFORE the new covt and new heart, in the context God was saying that none would be excluded from the new covt and that all would be represented.....even every-one of them as affirmed in Acts 2.

So has the new covt and freedom of Christs words, laws, truths anc example been delivered within YOU?, , or are you still looking or 'all israel" lol, to live within the confines of judea before that can happen?


Good chatting


...

 

[Biblewriter]

My, my, BW can ger nasty when faced with facts.

You have not presented valid "facts" for me to face.

Furthermore, BW previously agreed that Ez 36:25-27; 34:25 37:14 & similar passages were referring to the same new covt ordinances wrought by Christ as prophesied in Deut30:6-14 & Jer 31. Deut 30:6-14 is directly after the return from captivity (deut 30:1-5) which
Daniel affirms in ch 9 to refer to and BE the BABYLONIAN captivity. Ezekiel was also in this captivity at the time of his recieving further words of the coming new covt.

Furthermore, Paul affirms deut 30:6-14 as pertaining to and fulfilled through the indwelling of Christ in Rom 10:5-8!!!!!!!

Thus the new covt could only come after 'all Israel' had re-inhabited the land. If the new covt came, then obviously AND ABSOLUTLY, WITHOUT QUESTION, CLEARLY whatever was meant by all Israel returning to the land from babylinian and Assyrian dispersion had occurred!!!!

IF all Israel, every one of them' didn't return to the land in whatever meaning God intended for those words, then Christ COULD NOT have extablished the new/Everlating covt of Grace through faith.

This has zero basis in any scripture whatsoever. Is is pure opinion, used as an excuse to ignore what God explicitly said.

And in postponing the kingdom of the ordinances of the new covt wrought and delivered through Christ, dispensationalism denues the indwelling, establishment, favor, or power of the new covt.

Could it be that some need to re-consider what God meant by 'all'? In the context in the surrounding chs of Ez we find mention of the joining of the two sticks, etc. The northern tribes were considered gentile, goy, samaratain, dirtbags, scum, cut off etc. Could God simply have been using the word "all" to explain tat these hated peoples too would both re-inhabit the land AND BE PARTAKERS of the new covt as again acts 2 testifies.

Yes, rather than demanding that every last jew/Israelite be living within the confines of judea BEFORE the new covt and new heart, in the context God was saying that none would be excluded from the new covt and that all would be represented.....even every-one of them as affirmed in Acts 2.

So has the new covt and freedom of Christs words, laws, truths anc example been delivered within YOU?, , or are you still looking or 'all israel" lol, to live within the confines of judea before that can happen?


Good chatting


...

You are doing the very thing you falsely accuse me of. You are indeed getting nasty when faced with actual facts, and pretending that what I am saying is a basic departure from the Christian faith. In case you did not notice, this is a violation of forum rules, and will be reported if it continues.

 

[AJCServant]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]QUESTIONS FOR ANY VIRTUOUS-BEREAN-TYPE-BELIEVERS WHO MIGHT THOUGHTFULLY READ THIS POST[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]:[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]It seems that many have been discussing the dogma promoted via this thread's Original Post without ever considering the destructive consequences of that dogma. OR whether or not the dogma presented in the OP &#8220;infallibly&#8221; "encourages" and edifies-strengthens and promotes loving-holiness towards our God in Heaven and &#8220;all&#8221; others OR whether the dogma could inevitably &#8220;demoralize&#8221; those who were born into various cultures written into the Old Testament by &#8220;[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]unconverted[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]&#8221; writer/scribes -- who in their day were oftentimes &#8220;hateful&#8221; towards their &#8220;enemies&#8221;.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So I pray that these pertinent questions will &#8220;strengthen&#8221; any prayerful Berean type of believers who would prayerfully consider them.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Would anyone else be willing to post the &#8220;several&#8221; scriptures that give the &#8220;simple&#8221; root-reasons for the &#8220;strong-delusion&#8221; in 2Thessalonians2?[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ALSO[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Would anyone else be willing to post the &#8220;several&#8221; scriptures that admonish us &#8220;all&#8221; to &#8220;attempt&#8221; to &#8220;reprove-correct&#8221; those teachers -- who are fulfilling these root-reasons?[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ALSO[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Would anyone else be willing to post their view concerning if a &#8220;similar&#8221; strong delusion as taught in 2Thessalonians2 had &#8220;caused&#8221; the holocaust in Jerusalem of 70AD to occur, and could then also occur in our own day?[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I pray that the thoughts in this post would cause some to further consider the eternal &#8220;fruitfulness&#8221; OR &#8220;unfruitfulness&#8221; of any doctrine-of-men whose heart was &#8220;obviously&#8221; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]hardened[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] when in was first written.

It will eventually become obvious that far too many doctrines-of-men have now been endorsed by too many teachers in our modern day, whose hearts have also become hardened towards the cultures they are &#8220;[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]slandering[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]&#8221;,[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] rather than "reconciling" them back to God and HIS vision for their future.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]For Jesus' sacrifice' sake, let us all &#8220;choose&#8221; to be fruitful and faithful and faith-filled and &#8220;never&#8221; the opposite.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Shalom in Jesus,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]A Servant of Jesus Christ[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]AJCServant [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]John [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]10&15&17 & Revelation 21[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<>PS There are several key scriptures that continually govern my thoughts, hopes and prayers for all these threads, of which some are given below:[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]John[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 8:31-32[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]To the Judeans who had believed him, Jesus said, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]&#8220;[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If you [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]hold to my teaching[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], you are really my disciples. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].&#8221;[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Timothy[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 3:16-17[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]All ([/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Holy[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]) scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]: that the man of God may become perfect ([/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]mature[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]), [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]thoroughly furnished unto all [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]good works[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Timothy [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2:15-16[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]a workman that needeth not to be ashamed[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]rightly dividing the word of truth.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]16 But [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]shun[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ungodliness[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. (KJV) (ESV) 16 But [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]avoid[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ungodliness[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Titus 2:13[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Looking for that [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]blessed hope[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], and the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]glorious [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]([/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]i.e. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]fruitful[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif])[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Peter[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 3:10&18[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. . . . Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]error[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] of the lawless [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ones [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]and fall from your secure position[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 Peter 1:3-12 (KJV)http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Peter+1:3-12&version=KJV[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Matthew 4:19 - - Come, follow me, Jesus said, and I will send (even) you out to fish for men.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]PPS - Any further &#8220;edifying&#8221;, &#8220;comforting&#8221;, and &#8220;en-couraging&#8221; comments anyone?[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><


[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot the missionary.
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

 

[Notrash]

BW previously agreed that Ez 36:25-27; 34:25 37:14 & similar passages were referring to the same new covt ordinances wrought by Christ as prophesied in Deut30:6-14 & Jer 31. Deut 30:6-14 is directly after the return from captivity (deut 30:1-5) which
Daniel affirms in ch 9 to refer to and BE the BABYLONIAN captivity. Ezekiel was also in this captivity at the time of his recieving further words of the prophecied return from captivity and the coming new covt, new and circumcised hart.

Furthermore, Paul affirms deut 30: 6-14 as pertaining to and fulfilled through the indwelling of Christ in Rom 10:5-8!!!!!!!

Thus the new covt of Ez 36 & 37 could only come after 'all Israel' had re-inhabited the land. If the new covt came, then obviously AND ABSOLUTLY, WITHOUT QUESTION, CLEARLY whatever was meant by all Israel returning to the land from babylinian and Assyrian dispersion had occurred!!!!

IF all Israel, every one of them' didn't return to the land in whatever meaning God intended for those words, then Christ COULD NOT have extablished the new/Everlating covt of Grace through faith.

And in postponing the kingdom of the ordinances of the new covt wrought and delivered through Christ, dispensationalism denues the indwelling, establishment, favor, or power of the new covt.

Could it be that some need to re-consider what God meant by 'all'? In the context in the surrounding chs of Ez we find mention of the joining of the two sticks, etc. The northern tribes were considered gentile, goy, samaratain, dirtbags, scum, cut off etc. Could God simply have been using the word "all" to explain tat these hated peoples too would both re-inhabit the land AND BE PARTAKERS of the new covt as again acts 2 testifies.

Yes, rather than demanding that every last jew/Israelite be living within the confines of judea BEFORE the new covt and new heart, in the context God was saying that none would be excluded from the new covt and that all would be represented.....even every-one of them as affirmed in Acts 2.

So has the new covt and freedom of Christs words, laws, truths anc example been delivered within YOU?, , or are you still looking or 'all israel" lol, to live within the confines of judea before that can happen?
.

Since BW did not refute any of the information presented, I'll give him another try.

Take note of the scriptural support that the new covt could only come after 'all Israel' had returned from captivity; every one of them!!!

 

[Interplanner]

It sounds like we have a view here that 'all Israel' would return from Babylonian exile. They did not.

The 'all Israel' of Rom 11 is another thing totally apart from that exile.

 

[Notrash]

It sounds like we have a view here that 'all Israel' would return from Babylonian exile. They did not.

The 'all Israel' of Rom 11 is another thing totally apart from that exile.

That's not at all what I'm presenting.

Read the info again. BW emphasizes that the return to the land mentioned in Ez 36 etc could not have happened because every last single person who had decended from Israel did not return.; or something similar. He emphasizes the word "All" beyond its historical cultural intent using his claim of literal exacting hermeneutic.

What I'm saying and proving is that since the new heart and new covt come after the return to the land from babylonian captivity in both deuteronomy and Ezekiel AND since the new heart is the new covt of the teachings and person of Christ and justcation by faith (which we all would at least academically say was fulfilled through Christ) and which Paul affirms as fulfilled in rom 10:5-8; then whatever God intended by the words a Israel in Ez 36 had to be fulfilled in the return from BABYLON.

Read again the post. I don't wish to allow him to sidestep, ignore or dance around the pointed questions.
This is not rated to the "all Israel" of rom 9-11 to my awareness..

Only Judah was in captivity in Babylon, but in deut 30 & Dan 9, that captivity is suffice to fulfill the prophecy of deut 30 for national Israel. Thus, Judah's return plus representation by 'jews' from all over the world LIVING IN Jerusalem, plus the samaratains would also suffice whatever was intended by 'all Israel' in Ez 36. As mentioned above, the new covt, new and circumcised heart cam after that time. Daniels 490 yr prophecy between deut 30:5 & 6 and between this prophecy in Ez 35,36 that Israel/judah would be inhabited and rebuilt again (from babylonian destruction) and the new, clean heart (etc) had not yet been given. Thus jn deut 30 and ez 34-37 it woukd appear that the return and new heart would be coincidental.
Yes 'all Israel' meaning none of the northern tribes excluded reinhabited the land to the extent intended by the prophecy.

 

[Interplanner]

In Joel 2 they are certainly coincidental.

 

[Notrash]

In Joel 2 they are certainly coincidental.

Most of ch 1& 2 of joel is about an actual locuat plague. Between vs27 & 28 there could be a jump implied to the time of the first century when the judgement forecast by the locust plague is realized. But there isn't any talk of a new, clean heart as in deut 30, Jer 31, Ez 36 & 37; nor is there mention of being gathered from being scattered before that new heart of flesh. The new wine mentioned in 2:19 could refer to the gospel, but it could just refer to the restoration from the locust plague. In the same way that 483 yrs are later interjected between deit 30:1-5 & 6-14 so also could a time gap be between 27 & 28 of joel 2.

I've looked over Ez 20 also and in the prelimunary context God through Ez talks about how the people , after leaving Egypt worshipped idols and then were given laws & ordinances which were not Good 20:25. Thus hhe restoration and regathering of vs 33ff includes the later mention of the new heart, new laws, new statutes & truths of the new covt.

Many think of the new covt as being similar in principle as the old but with new and fewere rituals. It is NOT; but is declared to be contrary and NOT LIKE the covt made through Moses.

I didn't wasnt to get into this, as it takes away from the pointed questions,but they remain anyhow and can be referred to again.

There may even be a connection between "all Israel" gathering in the land and the "all" Israel" of rom 9-11, in that all Israel (recievers of God/Christ) comes from all nations of humanity to the new covt and all humanity gathers to the incarnation and proving of his Good. But I hav'nt thought about or presented that even as a theory... (till now)....

Understand and tolerate if we don't continue offering immediate responses.

Good chatting

 

[Interplanner]

I go, finally, with how the NT interprets these things.

 

[Biblewriter]

I go, finally, with how the NT interprets these things.

No, you use your wrested interpretation of what the New Testament teaches as an excuse to disbelieve prophecies of the Old Testament.

 

[Biblewriter]

BW previously agreed that Ez 36:25-27; 34:25 37:14 & similar passages were referring to the same new covt ordinances wrought by Christ as prophesied in Deut30:6-14 & Jer 31. Deut 30:6-14 is directly after the return from captivity (deut 30:1-5) which
Daniel affirms in ch 9 to refer to and BE the BABYLONIAN captivity. Ezekiel was also in this captivity at the time of his recieving further words of the coming new covt.

I do not remember the previous concession you claim I made. But that is beside the point.

The passages you cited from Ezekiel all refer to the return that is prophesied in so many other Old Testament passages, and which Isaiah 66 clearly teaches will take place after the lord comes “with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by His sword The LORD will judge all flesh; And the slain of the LORD shall be many.” (Isaiah 66:15-16)

If I indeed made such a concession about Deuteronomy 30:6-14, I made it carelessly. For only verses 1-10 of that chapter speak of the future restoration.

Jeremiah 31 indeed speaks of the future restoration.

Daniel 9 indeed included a prayer for the promised restoration from Babylon. But that has zero bearing on the promises in the other passages. Indeed, in Daniel 9, the 490 years only began at the restoration from Babylon, and that it not completed even yet.

Furthermore, Paul affirms deut 30:6-14 as pertaining to and fulfilled through the indwelling of Christ in Rom 10:5-8!!!!!!!

Actually, in Romans 10:5-8, only verses 12-14 are quoted. So they have zero bearing on the question.

Thus the new covt could only come after 'all Israel' had re-inhabited the land. If the new covt came, then obviously AND ABSOLUTLY, WITHOUT QUESTION, CLEARLY whatever was meant by all Israel returning to the land from babylinian and Assyrian dispersion had occurred!!!

This is 100% pure, unadulterated, supposition, completely unsupported by any scripture whatsoever.

IF all Israel, every one of them' didn't return to the land in whatever meaning God intended for those words, then Christ COULD NOT have extablished the new/Everlating covt of Grace through faith.

This is completely, absolutely, and flatly wrong. You accuse me of “dancing around” facts I do not like. But that is exactly what you are doing here. There cannot be even the slightest shadow of a doubt that “all the house of Israel, even all of it” has even yet returned to the land. This is an incontrovertible fact. And none of your rationalizing (for that is all this is) can do anything about it.

And in postponing the kingdom of the ordinances of the new covt wrought and delivered through Christ, dispensationalism denues the indwelling, establishment, favor, or power of the new covt.

Here you are assusing dispensationalists of teaching doctrine they do not even hold.

Could it be that some need to re-consider what God meant by 'all'? In the context in the surrounding chs of Ez we find mention of the joining of the two sticks, etc. The northern tribes were considered gentile, goy, samaratain, dirtbags, scum, cut off etc. Could God simply have been using the word "all" to explain tat these hated peoples too would both re-inhabit the land AND BE PARTAKERS of the new covt as again acts 2 testifies.

Yes, rather than demanding that every last jew/Israelite be living within the confines of judea BEFORE the new covt and new heart, in the context God was saying that none would be excluded from the new covt and that all would be represented.....even every-one of them as affirmed in Acts 2.

By doubling the word all (kol in the Hebrew text) The Holy Spirit was indeed stressing that He meant absolutely all of “the house of Israel.” In Acts 2 every one of them was commanded to repent. But the scriptural record makes it exceedingly plain that they did not obey.

So has the new covt and freedom of Christs words, laws, truths anc example been delivered within YOU?, , or are you still looking or 'all israel" lol, to live within the confines of judea before that can happen?


Good chatting


...

Yes, the new covenant and freedom in Christ has indeed been made good in me, and it is pure falsehood to claim that we dispensationalists believe, teach, or even imply what you are accusing us of holding.

 

[Biblewriter]

That's not at all what I'm presenting.

Read the info again. BW emphasizes that the return to the land mentioned in Ez 36 etc could not have happened because every last single person who had decended from Israel did not return.; or something similar. He emphasizes the word "All" beyond its historical cultural intent using his claim of literal exacting hermeneutic.

And you are simply ignoring the fact that the Holy Spirit stressed the fact that He meant absolutely all by doubling the word all (kol) in the Hebrew text.

What I'm saying and proving is that since the new heart and new covt come after the return to the land from babylonian captivity in both deuteronomy and Ezekiel AND since the new heart is the new covt of the teachings and person of Christ and justcation by faith (which we all would at least academically say was fulfilled through Christ) and which Paul affirms as fulfilled in rom 10:5-8; then whatever God intended by the words a Israel in Ez 36 had to be fulfilled in the return from BABYLON.

And what I am saying is this is pure imagination on you part. ou are simply assuming that the prophecies in Ezekiel and Deuteronomy 30:1-10 are referring to the return from Babylon. But these prophecies are literally filled with details that were unquestionably not fulfilled at that time. Every one of these you simply dismiss as immaterial, as if the Holy Spirit was sloppy on His wording, and did not really mean what He explicitly said.

Read again the post. I don't wish to allow him to sidestep, ignore or dance around the pointed questions.
This is not rated to the "all Israel" of rom 9-11 to my awareness..

And I have no intention of letting you get by with pretending these prophecies have been fulfilled when they plainly have not been fulfilled, even yet.

Only Judah was in captivity in Babylon, but in deut 30 & Dan 9, that captivity is suffice to fulfill the prophecy of deut 30 for national Israel. Thus, Judah's return plus representation by 'jews' from all over the world LIVING IN Jerusalem, plus the samaratains would also suffice whatever was intended by 'all Israel' in Ez 36. As mentioned above, the new covt, new and circumcised heart cam after that time. Daniels 490 yr prophecy between deut 30:5 & 6 and between this prophecy in Ez 35,36 that Israel/judah would be inhabited and rebuilt again (from babylonian destruction) and the new, clean heart (etc) had not yet been given. Thus jn deut 30 and ez 34-37 it woukd appear that the return and new heart would be coincidental.
Yes 'all Israel' meaning none of the northern tribes excluded reinhabited the land to the extent intended by the prophecy.

So you are saying that the Holy Spirit did not mean what He said.

 

[Biblewriter]

Notrash has accused me of not being willing to face the facts, and of trying to dance around irrefutable logic.

But here are the hard facts of the case:

1. The attack by &#8220;the Assyrian,&#8221; mentioned in Micah 5 and Isaiah 10, among other places, never happened. When the ancient Assyrians invaded Judea, they did not follow the path defined in Isaiah 10:28-32. And Israel has never made the counter-attack described in Micah 5.

2. The gathering of all Israel after the Lord has come &#8220;with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire,&#8221; as specified in Isaiah 66:15-20, has never taken place.

3. The purging out of all the rebels by the Lord Himself, so that they are brought &#8220;out of the country where they dwell,&#8221; but not being allowed to &#8220;enter the land of Israel,&#8221; as described in Ezekiel 20:38, has never taken place.

4. &#8220;The mountains of Israel,&#8221; with &#8220;the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken,&#8221; (Ezekiel 36:4) have never again been inhabited by &#8220;all the house of Israel, all of it,&#8221; as explicitly stated in Ezekiel 36:10.

5. A leader from &#8220;the land of Magog,&#8221; who is a ruler of &#8220;Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal,&#8221; has never attacked Israel accompanied by Persia, Ethiopia, Lybia, all the troops of Gomer, and the house of Togarmah, as explicitly stated in Ezekiel 38:2-8.

6. The land of Israel has never had the borders precisely defined in Ezekiel 47:15-20.

7. The land of Israel has never been divided among the twelve tribes in the way specified in Ezekiel 48:1-8 and 23-28.

There is no way to even pretend that even one of these seven things have ever happened. And these are but a few of very many such examples that can be given.

No amount of reasoning, no twists of language, and no doctrine built upon pure speculation can avoid or dance around these facts, for they are beyond dispute.

 

[Notrash]

I don't have time or energy right now; or ability to respend point by point.
So are you now saying that deut 30:6-14 is not the same as Jer 31 & simiar words of Ez 36 & 37?? W
Why would you say that?

If Paul quotes from some of the verses, it doesn't mean he's plagurizing , but it means that the new heart of deut 30:6-14 is fulfilled.

You did not 'concede' to Ez 36/37 being the same as Jer 31 & deut 30; you AGREED.
If you now come to see how those agreements disproove your theories, then I guess its ok in your book of twists to change their meaning as confirmed by the apostles. I believe it was in a thread of the 20 questions I presented connecting Dan 9 and deuteronomies fnd of the nation prophecies.

Additionally, Is66 was fulfilled whe Christ came with consuming fire and whrlwind against the enemies of the new covt., against his sons & daughters through faith in his coming. Thus we're agreed!!!, but only disagreed of who his enemies are/were.

The answer to the 3 below questiins is yes, in case you get them wrong or try to reason them away.

Another question: Did Daniels prayer in ch 9 satisfy the requirements for the rememberence of the blessings and curae of the law in Deut 30: 1-5 in order to effect the release from that captivity?

Was Daniel living in the captivity of deut 30:3?

Was the Babylonian captivity the fulfillment of the curse of hhe law of moses?

 

[Old Timer]

Once again it's an affirmation to see dispensational beliefs attacked with such hatred..

It's obvious what the enemy hates most..