YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[Stryder06]

Old law, new law big difference. Facts about the first, or old covenant: 1. It was made between God and Israel. 2. It was made when he brought them out of Egypt. 3. A new covenant is to be made. 4. It will not be according to the old one.

The promise of the new covenant is given by God in the book of Jeremiah where He said that He would put His law in our hearts.

 

[Stryder06]

The sabbath was a sign God and the children of Isreal, so was circumcision. Whats your understanding of Old and New Covenant?

The sabbath is a sign between God and His people. We are Israel (spiritually). The sabbath is no more apart of our lives than the other nine commandments.

I'd like someone to explain how the other nine commandments were fulfilled and what that means. For if they were fulfilled in the same way the sabbath was, which means that you no longer have to keep it, than that implies that one no longer needs to keep the remaining commandments.

 

[godschild583]

The promise of the new covenant is given by God in the book of Jeremiah where He said that He would put His law in our hearts.

true indeed.

 

[godschild583]

The sabbath is a sign between God and His people. We are Israel (spiritually). The sabbath is no more apart of our lives than the other nine commandments.

I'd like someone to explain how the other nine commandments were fulfilled and what that means. For if they were fulfilled in the same way the sabbath was, which means that you no longer have to keep it, than that implies that one no longer needs to keep the remaining commandments.

The sabbath was the only command that was a old covenant sign, and given throught the children of Isreal's generations. The new covenant requires different laws.

 

[BrightCandle]

The sabbath was the only command that was a old covenant sign, and given throught the children of Isreal's generations. The new covenant requires different laws.

Were Adam and Eve Israelites? No. Jesus created the Sabbath when the Godhead rested on the 7th day of Creation. This was long before Moses and the children of Israel. Removing the Sabbath from the other 10 commandments doesn't make sense at all. If you start doing things like that you might as well remove the 7th commandment dealing with adultery and those dealing with stealing or lying. Do you see the weakness of your line of reasoning?

 

[godschild583]

i know that sabbath keepers have been taught how to defend the seventh-day theology. why? for the sake of being right? this conversation will continue to go in circles. please read your bible and don't make inferences. it clearly states that we are under a new covenant, unlike the last covenant. the word sabbath doesn't appear anywhere in genesis. the 10 commandments, as we know them in the old covenant, have been done away with. the 10 commandments came with specific implications and punishment, most notably death. there was no salvation in them. if anyone has the power to take them away its The One who implimented them right? if not why write Romans 7:1-7, 2 Corinthians 3, Ephesians 2:15-16, Galatians 3:24-25, and the ever popular Colossians 2:14-16. Christ established a New Law. Take it for what its worth and not the way you were taught to interpret these. I'm sure when you came across them you question them but if you don't the veil will remain.

 

[godschild583]

27Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." 28 Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments. Exodus 34:27-28

6But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said:
"The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
9It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. Hebrews 8:6-13

 

[Stryder06]

i know that sabbath keepers have been taught how to defend the seventh-day theology. why? for the sake of being right? this conversation will continue to go in circles. please read your bible and don't make inferences. it clearly states that we are under a new covenant, unlike the last covenant. the word sabbath doesn't appear anywhere in genesis. the 10 commandments, as we know them in the old covenant, have been done away with. the 10 commandments came with specific implications and punishment, most notably death. there was no salvation in them. if anyone has the power to take them away its The One who implimented them right? if not why write Romans 7:1-7, 2 Corinthians 3, Ephesians 2:15-16, Galatians 3:24-25, and the ever popular Colossians 2:14-16. Christ established a New Law. Take it for what its worth and not the way you were taught to interpret these. I'm sure when you came across them you question them but if you don't the veil will remain.

The question you have to ask yourself is if the bible contradicts itself. God made a stunning display when He gave us the 10 commandments. Don't you think He would have clearly informed us if there had been a change?

The commandment to keep the sabbath can no more be seperated from the other 9 than any other one can. It is the seal of God between Him and His people forever. That's what He said. Furthermore we have the promise that we will worship before the Father every sabbath in heaven.

If you do away with one you have to do away with them all. That's what the problem is. At no point in time did God undo what He did on the sabbath. He never transfered the solemnity(sp?) that He placed on it to another day. Man has made the transfer, not God. Look it up if you doubt it.

Simply look to the Holy Spirit to guide. The truth about the sabbath remains, as well as the other nine commandments. The law of God is at the heart of the new covenant, just as it was at the heart of the old one. Get rid of the law and you're practically saying that there is no such thing as sin. For without the law there is no way to define sin. We end up with a lawless universe and a lawless God, which we know cannot be.

 

[visionary]

Yeah.. can't get around the fact, if you throw one out, you must throw the others out with it.. and then you are let without any... which is lawlessness.

 

[godschild583]

The question you have to ask yourself is if the bible contradicts itself. God made a stunning display when He gave us the 10 commandments. Don't you think He would have clearly informed us if there had been a change?

The commandment to keep the sabbath can no more be seperated from the other 9 than any other one can. It is the seal of God between Him and His people forever. That's what He said. Furthermore we have the promise that we will worship before the Father every sabbath in heaven.

If you do away with one you have to do away with them all. That's what the problem is. At no point in time did God undo what He did on the sabbath. He never transfered the solemnity(sp?) that He placed on it to another day. Man has made the transfer, not God. Look it up if you doubt it.

Simply look to the Holy Spirit to guide. The truth about the sabbath remains, as well as the other nine commandments. The law of God is at the heart of the new covenant, just as it was at the heart of the old one. Get rid of the law and you're practically saying that there is no such thing as sin. For without the law there is no way to define sin. We end up with a lawless universe and a lawless God, which we know cannot be.

Honestly you don't think its quite possible that the old covenant (10 commandments) were fulfilled? If you read Exodus 37:27-28 and Hebrews 8:1-13. To say they weren't would go against scripture and wipe away Jesus' sacrifice. Remember sacrafices and even death came with breaking anything on those tablets. I would find it odd if he nailed them to the cross just to give them back to us. Just because the New Law (Christ's Law) has some of the same principles as the Old Law (10 commandments), doesn't mean they are the same law. Do they not have new definition? Thou shalt not murder is the same as being angry or hating someone now. That was not the same law, remember it was a schoolmaster. In James the law he is speaking of is not the 10 commandments, that is a reference back to when Jesus was speaking to the rich man. This is the law of Christ, the law that gives freedom. When we walk by the fruits of the spirit, there is no law. I never said we were lawless, I was just making a distinction. That seal of God is the holy spirit, not the sabbath. If the sabbath remains why do they say its a shadow? Why is that the Only command God said he grew tired of? Man has not changed the sabbath, God has. There is a reason why there is an Old and New. "The 10 commandments" are not binding on Christians.

 

[godschild583]

Yeah.. can't get around the fact, if you throw one out, you must throw the others out with it.. and then you are let without any... which is lawlessness.

Like tithing, burning incense, sacrifies, etc. Two different laws.

 

[visionary]

Like tithing, burning incense, sacrifies, etc. Two different laws.

All the examples you gave are not listed in the TEN.. which are what we are talking about..

 

[godschild583]

All the examples you gave are not listed in the TEN.. which are what we are talking about..

but they are a part of the old covenant along with the 10. at least two of those were done on the sabbath. do you have to revert back to the old testament to find out how to keep the sabbath properly?

 

[Stryder06]

Honestly you don't think its quite possible that the old covenant (10 commandments) were fulfilled? If you read Exodus 37:27-28 and Hebrews 8:1-13. To say they weren't would go against scripture and wipe away Jesus' sacrifice. Remember sacrafices and even death came with breaking anything on those tablets. I would find it odd if he nailed them to the cross just to give them back to us. Just because the New Law (Christ's Law) has some of the same principles as the Old Law (10 commandments), doesn't mean they are the same law. Do they not have new definition? Thou shalt not murder is the same as being angry or hating someone now. That was not the same law, remember it was a schoolmaster.

I simply asked to have it explained how the 10 have been fulfilled. The law of God and the law of Moses are two different laws that were bundled together and given to the Israelites. The way Christ explained the law to the Jews is the same way it was always suppose to be looked at. The law to love our neighbor as ourself, and to love God with all our soul was first given in the OT, in the book of Deuteronomy.

Remember that the law of God exposes sin. The sacrifices were a symbol that met its substance with Christ. The 10 continue to stand, identifying sin in all its forms.

In James the law he is speaking of is not the 10 commandments, that is a reference back to when Jesus was speaking to the rich man.

Incorrect, James was talking about the 10 because the law that the rich man spoke of was the 10. Remember that they didn't have a NT during those times. The rich young ruler was quoting scripture from the OT.

This is the law of Christ, the law that gives freedom. When we walk by the fruits of the spirit, there is no law. I never said we were lawless, I was just making a distinction. That seal of God is the holy spirit, not the sabbath. If the sabbath remains why do they say its a shadow? Why is that the Only command God said he grew tired of? Man has not changed the sabbath, God has. There is a reason why there is an Old and New. "The 10 commandments" are not binding on Christians.

Don't forget that Christ is God, the same God that gave us the commandments. They say the sabbath is is a shadow so that they can explain away not keeping it. It is strickly a traditional practice, keeping sunday. The sabbath was made holy by God and that action was never undone. God made no change to His law. Were the law able to be changed, than Christ would not have had to die. The law of God, the 10 commandments stands at the heart of the NT, just as it did the OT.

 

[Stryder06]

Like tithing, burning incense, sacrifies, etc. Two different laws.

Just a quick note, tithing was never done away with.

 

[Stryder06]

-snip- do you have to revert back to the old testament to find out how to keep the sabbath properly?

Nope, just take a look at the life of Christ.

Secondly, why would that be a problem? Looking at the OT. The OT is what Christ taught from.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Nope, just take a look at the life of Christ.

Secondly, why would that be a problem? Looking at the OT. The OT is what Christ taught from.

So did my good bro Paul

Romans 11:25 For not I am willing ye to being ignorant brothers of the mystery, the-this, that no ye may be beside yourselves wise.
That a hardening/pwrwsiV <4457> from part/merouV <3313> to-the Israel has become until which the filling/plhrwma <4138> of-the Nations may be entering;

 

[godschild583]

I simply asked to have it explained how the 10 have been fulfilled. The law of God and the law of Moses are two different laws that were bundled together and given to the Israelites. The way Christ explained the law to the Jews is the same way it was always suppose to be looked at. The law to love our neighbor as ourself, and to love God with all our soul was first given in the OT, in the book of Deuteronomy.

The 10 commandments were given to Isreal but we are under a new covenant. They have been fulfilled in accordance to who they were given to and the purpose they served. The new law that is written on our hearts. The Law of Moses and Law of God/the Lord are interchangable terms. God gave the law through Moses.

22When the time of their purification according to the Law of Moses had been completed, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord 23(as it is written in the Law of the Lord, "Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord"), 24and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord: "a pair of doves or two young pigeons." Luke 2:22-23

*Note the Law of the Lord includes sacrifies*

Remember that the law of God exposes sin. The sacrifices were a symbol that met its substance with Christ. The 10 continue to stand, identifying sin in all its forms.

They did expose sin but why in Corinthians would it be called the ministry of death engraved in stones?

Incorrect, James was talking about the 10 because the law that the rich man spoke of was the 10. Remember that they didn't have a NT during those times. The rich young ruler was quoting scripture from the OT.

Remember this is Gospel though, the good news. The law of liberty. So if "the law" is binding now, then we must keep it all, sacrifices, feast days, etc. If all the decalogue is binding because James quotes a part of it, then all the law of Moses is binding too, because he also quotes from that, verse 8, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor." This is from Lev. 19:18. Is that whole chapter binding now? James quoted so much as was applicable to his subject, either from the decalogue or from the other books, without thereby binding either upon us.

Don't forget that Christ is God, the same God that gave us the commandments. They say the sabbath is is a shadow so that they can explain away not keeping it. It is strickly a traditional practice, keeping sunday. The sabbath was made holy by God and that action was never undone. God made no change to His law. Were the law able to be changed, than Christ would not have had to die. The law of God, the 10 commandments stands at the heart of the NT, just as it did the OT.

No, the shadow met its substance. We that believe experience God's true rest.

2For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith.3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has Hebrews 4:2-3

Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians who were already strict sabbath-keepers so this was clearly not a command.

God even said he would remove the sabbath.

5 saying,
"When will the New Moon be over
that we may sell grain,
and the Sabbath be ended
that we may market wheat?"—
skimping the measure,
boosting the price
and cheating with dishonest scales,

6 buying the poor with silver
and the needy for a pair of sandals,
selling even the sweepings with the wheat.
7 The LORD has sworn by the Pride of Jacob: "I will never forget anything they have done.
8 "Will not the land tremble for this,
and all who live in it mourn?
The whole land will rise like the Nile;
it will be stirred up and then sink
like the river of Egypt. 9 "In that day," declares the Sovereign LORD,
"I will make the sun go down at noon
and darken the earth in broad daylight. Amos 8:5-8

That was when Jesus was crucified.

33At the sixth hour darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour. Mark 15:33

God said it!

 

[godschild583]

Just a quick note, tithing was never done away with.

"Each one must give as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. " 2 Corinthians 9:7

This isn't tithing.

 

[godschild583]

Nope, just take a look at the life of Christ.

Secondly, why would that be a problem? Looking at the OT. The OT is what Christ taught from.

Well according to Galatians 3:10....10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

The Book of the Law aka Torah.