YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[Doveaman]

Every one who has been convicted of sin, know how the Holy Spirit uses the Law to convict people of their sin. That is what Paul is saying.

Paul is also saying that the law condemns for sin, and Christians should not rely on a law the condemns.

2 Cor 3:6-9...He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant- — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory,...will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!

Gal 3:10..."All who rely on observing the law are under a curse", the curse of condemnation.

 

[visionary]

Paul is also saying that the law condemns for sin, and Christians should not rely on a law the condemns.

2 Cor 3:6-9...He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant- — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory,...will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!

Gal 3:10..."All who rely on observing the law are under a curse", the curse of condemnation.

Without the law there is no condemnation, without condemnation, there is no need for a savior, without a savior, there is no hope of salvation, without salvation there is no escaping the penalty of the law. They are all ties together, they can not be separated, each one plays a role in the plan of salvation.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

I have a question for anyone that thinks that we should not keep the 10 commandments. Which commandment of God should we break?

 

[visionary]

I have a question for anyone that thinks that we should not keep the 10 commandments. Which commandment of God should we break?

or which one is too hard to keep?
Or why would God expect you to keep something that is impossible to do?
or why did he make up those rules in the first place?
or under what laws can he condemn the sinner?
or what is the definition of sin by which we can know to repent of?

 

[squint]

I have a question for anyone that thinks that we should not keep the 10 commandments. Which commandment of God should we break?

The commands of the Law have never changed:

Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Deuteronomy 18:13
Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Some teach an 'error' that you can 'try' to BE PEFECT, but that if you FAIL in this undertaking...by following some vain ritualistic INCANTATIONS and METHODOLOGIES you can then START OVER and give it another SHOT...

Perfection is a ONE WAY street that ONLY PERFECTION can 'perform.' Any individual claimant is A LIAR.

John 17:23
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one

Freewill your way into that ONE? lol. Pardon me while I LAUGH uproariously!

Predestine yourself there IN THE MIDST OF YOUR SINS? Pardon me for my BIG GRINS...

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

enjoy!

squint

 

[Doveaman]

I have a question for anyone that thinks that we should not keep the 10 commandments. Which commandment of God should we break?

We keep the 'commandments' that God Himself keeps, and not the 'Ten commandments' He made for puny man.

God commands Himself and obeys Himself, and so do we obey God Himself.

Then God said,"Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness...Gen 1:26.

Keeping the Ten Commandment made for puny man does not and cannot produce God-likeness.

For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son...in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who...live according to the...Spirit...Rom 8:3-4.

God-likeness can only be achieved by living according to what God thinks in his own spiritual mind.

We achieve this by God imparting to us His spiritual mind through the power of His Holy Spirit within us, so that we can know as God knows, and do as God does.

"No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"— but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God...no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God..."For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ...1 Cor 2:9-11, 16.

And it is by this mind we live and obey.

 

[Stryder06]

Does this mean that the billions of Christians who do not keep the seventh-day Sabbath are not truly converted in heart?

No one said that. The great things about God is that He alone knows the heart. Some people are truely convicted and other are those who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.

You should also dispel this notion that the majority must have it right. The bible specifically states that the narrow way is the way of life and that there are few who find it. While the broad way is the road that leads to destruction.

 

[squint]

No one said that. The great things about God is that He alone knows the heart. Some people are truely convicted and other are those who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.

You should also dispel this notion that the majority must have it right. The bible specifically states that the narrow way is the way of life and that there are few who find it. While the broad way is the road that leads to destruction.

Uh huh. And just WHO has actually 'found' the BROAD PATH that leads to destruction than THOSE who (potentially) condemn nearly ALL of mankind to be eternally annihilated or burned alive forever.

It's always amazing to see how 2 different ones can read a scripture and come to OPPOSITE CONCLUSIONS.

go figure!

 

[Enow]

John 6:28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Galatians 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 2: 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Only by faith in the Son of God can we live the christian life: that is why it is written simply as .. the just shall live by faith. That is the only way we can get to know Him.


1 John 3: 22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Romans 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 13: 8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

Keep your eyes on Jesus as He is Your Good Shepherd as well as Your Saviour.

 

[Stryder06]

Uh huh. And just WHO has actually 'found' the BROAD PATH that leads to destruction than THOSE who (potentially) condemn nearly ALL of mankind to be eternally annihilated or burned alive forever.

It's always amazing to see how 2 different ones can read a scripture and come to OPPOSITE CONCLUSIONS.

go figure!

What exactly do you think will happen to those who are not saved in heaven with God?

 

[BrightCandle]

Does this mean that the billions of Christians who do not keep the seventh-day Sabbath are not truly converted in heart?

I think you have things backwards, as you often do; those who understand the truth will gladly avoid at all cost any commandments that kills and condemns.

Paul understood this truth:

Rom 7:9-11...Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

What you need to do, instead of criticizing my posts, you can try explaining the scriptures I quoted in a way that is consistent with your ideas of the law of Ten Commandments. Maybe then you will make more sense.

The 10 Commandments do not kill anyone, SIN KILLS! If Paul did not repent of his sins, and turn from being a law breaker to a law keeper, with Jesus' grace, he would have been lost forever. If the Law could have been tossed aside easily, then Jesus would not have needed to die for the human race, which proves its immutability.

 

[squint]

What exactly do you think will happen to those who are not saved in heaven with God?

There are several false presumptions that you have put into play.

One, that GOD CANNOT SAVE TO THE UTTERMOST.

Two, that GOD CANNOT SAVE AFTER DEATH.

Scriptures tell us that Jesus Himself represented Himself as The Saviour of the world. A 'few' of us believe He actually gets the JOB DONE...imagine that?

And scriptures also tell us that God in Christ DOES SAVE people POST DEATH...Romans 11:26-32 shows ALL OF ISRAEL inclusive of past tense ENEMIES OF THE GOSPEL both LOVED and SAVED post death.

The devil however will be going to HELL and these entities are also found WITH mankind, even leading them astry continually.

When you equate loving your unsaved neighbors with merely warning them AND presenting that God MAY put ETERNAL DEATH upon them imho you are being used and you are certainly NOT LOVING your neighbors as yourself. You are merely judging them to be less than yourself and deeming them to the damned.

Jesus' First Response to Satan was THIS:

MAN SHALL LIVE BY EVERY WORD OF GOD.

Where then did you come up with DEATH WORDS for them?

enjoy!

squint

 

[squint]

The 10 Commandments do not kill anyone, SIN KILLS!

And you openly parade around with THE POTENTIAL OF ETERNAL DEATH to those you have been commanded to love as if it were the most natural thing for a believer to do!

If Paul did not repent of his sins, and turn from being a law breaker to a law keeper, with Jesus' grace, he would have been lost forever.

Pure imposition on your part. All of Israel inclusive of SAUL were taught by God Himself that they are GODS CHILDREN. Nowhere in the entire Bible does it show that God looses a SINGLE ONE of His children.

If the Law could have been tossed aside easily, then Jesus would not have needed to die for the human race, which proves its immutability.

Paul was aware of a far more interesting LAW that the Law of the O.T. revealed to him. The essence of that disclosure was that the SIN that indwelt him was as he described it: NO LONGER I. Paul openly admitted the presence of EVIL with him which was both aroused and even EMPOWERED by The Law. Paul had EVIL with him 'when' he desired to do good, which presumably was all the time.

Paul also had a DEVIL put upon him because of the excessive revelation given to him in these matters. So Paul in short was NOT ALONE in these matters NOR did he claim to be POST SALVATION. Just the opposite. Paul pointed to his own obvious problem, that being OF THE DEVIL.

The DEVIL in mankind is not about to be 'following the Law' NOR should we expect him to. No, just the opposite. It is the DEVILS in men that condemn those we are to love to rather be burned alive forever OR eternally annihilated.

Sound familiar? Just how lawful do you really think you are when you use the very LAW that commands you to LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORS AS YOURSELF and you turn that into GOD IS POSSIBLY GOING TO ETERNALLY KILL YOU!?

I say you missed the points of that same Law nearly ENTIRELY and instead have become it's PAWN of obvious working with the other parties, the DEVIL.

enjoy!

squint

 

[visionary]

The devil's rebellion.. and then what you are saying is correct. It is the spirit of rebellion against the Word of God that is at the heart of this spiritual warfare.

 

[Stryder06]

There are several false presumptions that you have put into play.

One, that GOD CANNOT SAVE TO THE UTTERMOST.

Two, that GOD CANNOT SAVE AFTER DEATH.

Scriptures tell us that Jesus Himself represented Himself as The Saviour of the world. A 'few' of us believe He actually gets the JOB DONE...imagine that?

And scriptures also tell us that God in Christ DOES SAVE people POST DEATH...Romans 11:26-32 shows ALL OF ISRAEL inclusive of past tense ENEMIES OF THE GOSPEL both LOVED and SAVED post death.

The devil however will be going to HELL and these entities are also found WITH mankind, even leading them astry continually.

When you equate loving your unsaved neighbors with merely warning them AND presenting that God MAY put ETERNAL DEATH upon them imho you are being used and you are certainly NOT LOVING your neighbors as yourself. You are merely judging them to be less than yourself and deeming them to the damned.

Jesus' First Response to Satan was THIS:

MAN SHALL LIVE BY EVERY WORD OF GOD.

Where then did you come up with DEATH WORDS for them?

enjoy!

squint

So than what you are saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that there will not be any human being that will be lost to the fires of hell, rather only the devil and His angels?

 

[Doveaman]

The 10 Commandments do not kill anyone, SIN KILLS! If Paul did not repent of his sins, and turn from being a law breaker to a law keeper, with Jesus' grace, he would have been lost forever.

Paul is saying exactly what Paul is saying, nothing more, nothing less.

Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death...Rom 7:9-11.

He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant- — not of the letter...for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns men...2 Cor 3:6-9.

The law kills, the law puts to death and the law condemns men.

It couldn't be any clearer.

If the Law could have been tossed aside easily, then Jesus would not have needed to die for the human race, which proves its immutability.

Rationalization gets us no where. Scriptures do.

That is precisely the reason why Christ died, so that the law can be ‘tossed aside’.

God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code (of the law), with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross...Col2:13-14.

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse... because, "The righteous will live by faith ." The law is not based on faith...Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law...Gal 3:10-13.

The law has no place in God’s grace freely given to us through faith. Under grace there is no law of Ten Commandments.

But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive the full rights of sons...Gal 4:4-5.

To redeem us from the law and the curse of the law means to remove us from the law and all its requirements completely so we are now free to be sons of God through faith, and not prisoners to the law.

Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus...Gal 3:23-26.

You would do well to stick to scriptures and stop rationalizing.

 

[visionary]

Paul is saying exactly what Paul is saying, nothing more, nothing less.

Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death...Rom 7:9-11.

He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant- — not of the letter...for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns men...2 Cor 3:6-9.

The law kills, the law puts to death and the law condemns men.

It couldn't be any clearer.
Rationalization gets us no where. Scriptures do.

That is precisely the reason why Christ died, so that the law can be ‘tossed aside’.

God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code (of the law), with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross...Col2:13-14.

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse... because, "The righteous will live by faith ." The law is not based on faith...Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law...Gal 3:10-13.

The law has no place in God’s grace freely given to us through faith. Under grace there is no law of Ten Commandments.

But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive the full rights of sons...Gal 4:4-5.

To redeem from the law and the curse of the law means to be remove from the law and all its requirements completely so we are now free to be sons and not prisoners.

Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus...Gal 3:23-26.

You would do well to stick to scriptures and stop rationalizing.

and every verse you used in this post is talking about the laws of Moses not the Law of God.

 

[Doveaman]

and every verse you used in this post is talking about the laws of Moses not the Law of God.

Moses made no laws.

All laws were given to Moses by God, including animal sacrifice.

They are called the law of Moses because God gave them through Moses, but they don't belong to Moses. They belong to God, including the Ten Commandment law which He gave through Moses.

That law was given to man through Moses. But now grace and truth is given to us through Christ.

For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ...John 1:17.

The law is not 'grace and truth'. We would do well to stick with 'grace and truth', and not 'law'.

He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant- — not of the letter...for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns men...2 Cor 3:6-9.

That "which was engraved in letters on stone" is the Ten Commandments.

It was given through Moses. Just ask Charlton Heston.

 

[Doveaman]

No one said that. The great things about God is that He alone knows the heart. Some people are truely convicted and other are those who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.

Are the SDAs and those who keep the Sabbath the ones that are “truly convicted” and the rest of us Christians who don’t keep it the ones "who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof."?

You should also dispel this notion that the majority must have it right. The bible specifically states that the narrow way is the way of life and that there are few who find it. While the broad way is the road that leads to destruction.

I have no such notion. But one thing I know for sure, the “few” are those who live by faith in Jesus Christ, and not by a law of Ten Commandments.

Answer me this:

Is obedience to the Ten Commandment law righteous behavior?

If obedience to the Ten Commandment law is not righteous behavior then why on earth are we Christians wasting time with it? I am sure we can find something better to do.

 

[RND]

Moses made no laws.

All laws were given to Moses by God, including animal sacrifice.

They are called the law of Moses because God gave them through Moses, but they don't belong to Moses. They belong to God, including the Ten Commandment law which He gave through Moses.

That law was given to man through Moses. But now grace and truth is given to us through Christ.

For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ...John 1:17.

The "laws of Moses" were a witness against the Covenant that the COI agreed to perform.

"If you do this, then I'll do this and this won't happen...."

The law is not 'grace and truth'. We would do well to stick with 'grace and truth', and not 'law'.

Jesus' sacrifice is now a "witness." A witness against the Covenant that the COI agreed to perform."

He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant- — not of the letter...for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns men...2 Cor 3:6-9.

Sin "still" kills. The "wages" (what we earn) of sin........is? What? Death. What the sacrifice of a "physical" lamb couldn't do Christ accomplished.

That "which was engraved in letters on stone" is the Ten Commandments.

Right. Where are those "Ten Commandments" written now?

It was given through Moses. Just ask Charlton Heston.

Is it possible to ask 'Chuck' anything?