YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[MamaZ]

We are living now in the seventh Day awating the eighth day of completetion..

 

[heymikey80]

While I've almost always agreed with most of your assessments and posts Mikey I have to ask; According to "who's" law?

Yes, I know. And it's a tough issue, and I understand people will differ over it.

The Law says -- by its own letter, "In it -- do no work." By the letter of this Law, Jesus did work.

The Pharisaical/rabbinic tradition intensified this statement. But the letter is clear.

To me the question is whether what's moral about the Law is its letter -- or its intent. The Sabbath seeks to accomplish something. Just following it to the letter -- that doesn't even begin to accomplish what this Law seeks. What it seeks to accomplish is what I think is moral about the Law. And Jesus constantly points out, what He seeks to accomplish is what that Sabbath day Law sought to accomplish.

The intent of the Sabbath Law wasn't "do no work."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We are living now in the seventh Day awating the eighth day of completetion..

Gotta wait on this shifty character first

Revelation 17:11 and the beast which was and not is even he an Eighth is and out of the seven is and into destruction is going away. {Levi is listed 8th in the order of Tribes Revelation]

 

[RND]

Yes, I know. And it's a tough issue, and I understand people will differ over it.

The Law says -- by its own letter, "In it -- do no work." By the letter of this Law, Jesus did work.

Given He was a Rabbi and teacher of the law that seems to make sense.

The Pharisaical/rabbinic tradition intensified this statement. But the letter is clear.

To me the question is whether what's moral about the Law is its letter -- or its intent. The Sabbath seeks to accomplish something. Just following it to the letter -- that doesn't even begin to accomplish what this Law seeks.

That's true. That explains why the so-called "righteous" were able to kill on the Son of God and still be in by sundown.

What it seeks to accomplish is what I think is moral about the Law. And Jesus constantly points out, what He seeks to accomplish is what that Sabbath day Law sought to accomplish.

The intent of the Sabbath Law wasn't "do no work."

Well, even deeper Mike would be to do the "right" work. To do "good" and not "evil."

Luk 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy [it]?

 

[RND]

We are living now in the seventh Day awating the eighth day of completetion..

Not according to Ussher's and most accepted Protestant/Hebrew chronologies we aren't.

 

[heymikey80]

But you choose Sunday. Why?

Honestly? Because Sunday is the commemoration of the Resurrection, the first day of the New Creation. The Epistle of Barnabas points that out. The Apostles' lack of opposition to this arrangement seems to make of it no great matter.

I don't observe Sunday as a Sabbath by doing no work, either. I'm an elder and I have to tend to things spiritual, both Saturday and Sunday.

What I do seek to do though, is to try to push away my own tendency to "work for myself" and rest from that. Every day. And it takes way more effort to do that.

 

[RND]

Honestly? Because Sunday is the commemoration of the Resurrection, the first day of the New Creation. The Epistle of Barnabas points that out. The Apostles' lack of opposition to this arrangement seems to make of it no great matter.

Doesn't that render easter as redundant?

I don't observe Sunday as a Sabbath by doing no work, either. I'm an elder and I have to tend to things spiritual, both Saturday and Sunday.

What I do seek to do though, is to try to push away my own tendency to "work for myself" and rest from that. Every day. And it takes way more effort to do that.

You seem to have a grasp on things Mike, unlike most folks, in that you at least recognize that the sabbath was never changed to Sunday.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You seem to have a grasp on things Mike, unlike most folks, in that you at least recognize that the sabbath was never changed to Sunday.

So you are agreeing worshipping on Sunday is ok?

 

[RND]

So you are agreeing worshipping on Sunday is ok?

Not in the sense you think I am LLOJ. Mike understands that it isn't about him.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not in the sense you think I am LLOJ. Mike understands that it isn't about him.

What about those that work on Saturday's? Are they breaking the Sabbath?

 

[RND]

What about those that work on Saturday's? Are they breaking the Sabbath?

I suppose it depends on what they are doing and why they are doing it. I'm a part of a prison ministry that works on the sabbath eve and day. Is that "breaking" the sabbath? I drive to get to these prisons is that work? I turn the lights on when i get home? Is that work?

It all depends on what is in the heart LLOJ and I'm not in a position to read it. I am qualified to "read between the lines" of all the "law is dead" and "Jesus is my sabbath rest" talk.

 

[Doveaman]

Come on, LL, you know how I feel about feet and toes.

 

[Doveaman]

I hope you don't get too fat just sitting there stuffing your face.

 

[Doveaman]

Yes, I know. And it's a tough issue, and I understand people will differ over it.

The Law says -- by its own letter, " In it -- do no work." By the letter of this Law, Jesus did work.

The Pharisaical/rabbinic tradition intensified this statement. But the letter is clear.

To me the question is whether what's moral about the Law is its letter -- or its intent. The Sabbath seeks to accomplish something. Just following it to the letter -- that doesn't even begin to accomplish what this Law seeks. What it seeks to accomplish is what I think is moral about the Law. And Jesus constantly points out, what He seeks to accomplish is what that Sabbath day Law sought to accomplish.

The intent of the Sabbath Law wasn't " do no work."

What you say makes sense. It is the intent of the Sabbath that matters for Christians, and not the letter. The letter kills, but there is life in the intent.

The Jews were given the letter, and they kept the letter, but they did not achieve its intent.

All Ten Commandments of the letter were given to the Jews with intent, but they did not achieve the intent of any of the ten even though they kept all ten to the letter.

The question I have is, can we achieve the intent of the law without observing the letter of Ten Commandments?

Can we achieve the intent of the Sabbath without observing the fourth command of the letter - a seventh-day rest?

And if as Christian we can, and the intent is what matters to God, then is there a need for the letter of Ten Commandments, which would include a seventh-day rest?

 

[Stryder06]

What you say makes sense. It is the intent of the Sabbath that matters for Christians, and not the letter. The letter kills, but there is life in the intent.

The Jews were given the letter, and they kept the letter, but they did not achieve its intent.

All Ten Commandments of the letter were given to the Jews with intent, but they did not achieve the intent of any of the ten even though they kept all ten to the letter.

The question I have is, can we achieve the intent of the law without observing the letter of Ten Commandments?

Can we achieve the intent of the Sabbath without observing the forth command of the letter - a seventh-day rest?

And if as Christian we can, and the intent is what matters to God, then is there a need for the letter of Ten Commandments, which would include a seventh-day rest?

The answer is no. The law is what it is by design, if it could be changed in any way than Christ needed not die. The problem is that in later years man tried to use the law to control other men. It was never unlawful to do good on the sabbath. But the religous leaders turned the sabbath from a delight to a burden.

We need the sabbath, this is the reason it was made for man. And it does matter what day we worship on because of the simple fact that God asked us to observe the sabbath on that day. It's all about obedience to God and to what He has asked us to do.

 

[MamaZ]

The sabbath has not died LOL. Those of us who are in Christ are indeed in the sabbath. For as it has been written only those who do not believe have not entered into the sabbath rest. They enter not because of unbelief. The 10 commandments and all the letter of the law has been fulfilled by Christ.. The law was not there to save a man that was not the intent of the law. The intent of the law was a witness not for men but against men.

 

[Stryder06]

The sabbath has not died LOL. Those of us who are in Christ are indeed in the sabbath. For as it has been written only those who do not believe have not entered into the sabbath rest. They enter not because of unbelief. The 10 commandments and all the letter of the law has been fulfilled by Christ.. The law was not there to save a man that was not the intent of the law. The intent of the law was a witness not for men but against men.

Please explain how you've entered into this sabbath rest while subsequentially disguarding the sabbath day of the Most High?

 

[BrightCandle]

I assure you, my conscience is completely clear.

Is this the best reply you can come up with?

Well it's not working.

I think your argument is a bit backward.

If the Ten Commandments were to be included, John might have made it more clear, but since it's not clear we cannot conclude it's there. Your argument has no substance.

John makes no mention of Ten Commandments. You believe he did simply because you want to believe he did. But it is clear he did not mention it.

You cannot establish a belief based on what John did not state. Beliefs are based on what is stated. Often times if something is not clearly stated it usually means it's not there or it's not important.

John makes no mention of Ten Commandments, but yet you believe he did. Sounds like blind faith to me.

I suggest you structure your arguments based on what is stated, and not based on what is not stated. You can believe as long and hard as you like, but the Ten Commandments is still not going to be there.

SDAs are afraid of complex arguments because their ideas are based on illusions and not based on reality.

This is reality:

Col 2:16-17...Do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

You would do well to stick with reality and stop chasing shadows.

When one does not have truth on his side, then complex and confusing arguments are brought forth that obscure what is in reality very clear and simple. If you follow your line of reasoning you make out the disciples and Jesus to be "lawless" sinners. Those who are truly converted in heart will gladly want to keep God's commandments, they won't be a burden to them, it will be a delight, in light of the infinitely high price of sin, and the realization that continuing in law breaking (sin), crucifies Jesus afresh.

 

[Doveaman]

Those who are truly converted in heart will gladly want to keep God's commandments

Does this mean that the billions of Christians who do not keep the seventh-day Sabbath are not truly converted in heart?

I think you have things backwards, as you often do; those who understand the truth will gladly avoid at all cost any commandments that kills and condemns.

Paul understood this truth:

Rom 7:9-11...Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

What you need to do, instead of criticizing my posts, you can try explaining the scriptures I quoted in a way that is consistent with your ideas of the law of Ten Commandments. Maybe then you will make more sense.

 

[visionary]

Does this mean that the billions of Christians who do not keep the seventh-day Sabbath are not truly converted in heart?

I think you have things backwards, as you often do; those who understand the truth will gladly avoid at all cost any commandments that kills and condemns.

Paul understood this truth:

Rom 7:9-11...Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

What you need to do, instead of criticizing my posts, you can try explaining the scriptures I quoted in a way that is consistent with your ideas of the law of Ten Commandments. Maybe then you will make more sense.

Every one who has been convicted of sin, know how the Holy Spirit uses the Law to convict people of their sin. That is what Paul is saying.