Yes, but what if we are not wrong?

[YESLORDIWILL]

There is no dead or alive person that met Christ and "found" "God" in other religion. Never.

How do you know?

 

[Wryetui]

That question I would ask you too, for all of you claiming that "so many" other people "found" God in other religion. How do you know?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

That question I would ask you too, for all of you claiming that "so many" other people "found" God in other religion. How do you know?

How do we know that other people claim to have found God in other religions? Quite obviously because they are making such claims.

 

[Wryetui]

And why do you believe them?

 

[Eudaimonist]

And why do you believe them?

I think that you are missing the point. We have just as much reason to believe them as we have to believe you.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[bhsmte]

To don't believe in God you are very mad at Him. It is curious how you always quote the OT but you say never about Jesus from the NT, what don't you like about Him? The fact that He died for Us? The fact that He was the best person ever? The fact that He is the same God from the OT?

How can one be mad at someone they don't believe exists?

 

[Wryetui]

How can one be mad at someone they don't believe exists?

Just look at them.

 

[bhsmte]

Just look at them.

That explanation, just doesn't cut it.

 

[Davian]

Indeed it is an important question, but you'll need to explain which seat these people are in upon this boat, because some people choose seats that are close to lifeboat, and some choose to sit anywhere they like, because they feel the Titanic won't sink.

( oh boy that was a fast think annalogy I hope it works My apologies if it's flawed )

If life is the "boat", and your religion is the "lifeboat", I would ask, can we see and test this alleged vessel, beyond mere assertions that it works? Will this thing float or sink as if it is not a boat at all? Other than what is alleged in second-hand, anonymous stories, has anyone ever used this boat successfully?

 

[agua]

If life is the "boat", and your religion is the "lifeboat", I would ask, can we see and test this alleged vessel, beyond mere assertions that it works? Will this thing float or sink as if it is not a boat at all? Other than what is alleged in second-hand, anonymous stories, has anyone ever used this boat successfully?

Fair question Davian, but if I may I'd like to clarify the analogy and it's elements as I intend them, first.

1. Yes life is the boat.
2. The lifeboat is Yahweh ( not my religion or anyone else's ), and the Blood of Christ guarantees its safe passage.

The resurrection and judgement is future, and this naturarlly implies that we can't test nor see it, until it happens aside from the Biblical accounts of Jesus' death and resurrection. Jesus resurrection also doesn't clearly show us the judgement, but simply Yahweh's ability to raise the dead.

To accept that the resurrection is true you will need to believe God exists and search for Him, then He will help you find Him and He will reveal to you the ceratinty of His lifeboat ( any many other things ). You will come to trust Him and His methods of revelation because your own experiences will be congruent and be validated by both personal experiences and revelation and scripture if necessary. This becomes experential faith.

Also you will find some surprising things about yourself, that you likely do not currently know.

 

[agua]

To don't believe in God you are very mad at Him. It is curious how you always quote the OT but you say never about Jesus from the NT, what don't you like about Him? The fact that He died for Us? The fact that He was the best person ever? The fact that He is the same God from the OT?

I see blaming God or criticizing Him shameful and pathethic because you are against your own Creator, but I cannot stop people from doing it.

Wrytetui this is interesting. I agree; I've found that the message of the Cross is offensive when people think about what it means.

 

[quatona]

dp

 

[quatona]

To don't believe in God you are very mad at Him. It is curious how you always quote the OT but you say never about Jesus from the NT, what don't you like about Him? The fact that He died for Us? The fact that He was the best person ever? The fact that He is the same God from the OT?

You are grossly overestimating my emotional involvement in this question. Must be some sort of projection on your part.

I see blaming God or criticizing Him shameful and pathethic because you are against your own Creator, but I cannot stop people from doing it.

First you´d need to let it sink in that I don´t believe there´s a God.
When I criticize something it is human god concepts.
Secondly, you´d need to understand that my valuation of a character you tell me about is irrelevant for my belief or lack thereof in the existence of said character. These are two entirely different issues, and again, the idea that my beliefs follow my preferences must be projection on your part.

 

[Freodin]

Wrytetui this is interesting. I agree; I've found that the message of the Cross is offensive when people think about what it means.

If you think that the message of the Cross is offensive... why do you propagate it?



Seriously, I think I get what you mean: other people / non-christians find it offensive.

But here I think it is just the Christian blinder going up again and have you replace what people really think with what you believe people have to think.

Perhaps you should just ask people what they think about "the message of the cross"?

No need to thank me... I will give you my answer even without you asking.

I think the "message of the cross" is basically stupid, and it is too often used by Christians in ways that really is offensive to unbelievers.

To don't believe in God you are very mad at Him. It is curious how you always quote the OT but you say never about Jesus from the NT, what don't you like about Him? The fact that He died for Us? The fact that He was the best person ever? The fact that He is the same God from the OT?

I see blaming God or criticizing Him shameful and pathethic because you are against your own Creator, but I cannot stop people from doing it.

As Quatona said: you have to consider that we don't believe in your deity. As we see it, it is the views of other humans - believers - that are promoted here in the ultimate authoritarian way... and it is not nice ways.

It is not that we "don't like" any part of it - though I admit that I do dislike parts of it, and I don't think Jesus was the best person ever - it is that we "don't like" what the propagators of these stories, good or bad, do with it.

 

[agua]

....
I think the "message of the cross" is basically stupid, and it is too often used by Christians in ways that really is offensive to unbelievers.

What's the message of the Cross that you believe is used by Christains that's offensive to unbelievers ?

I'm not ceratin that you know what the message is if you've quoted Quatona.

 

[Freodin]

What's the message of the Cross that you believe is used by Christains that's offensive to unbelievers ?

I'm not ceratin that you know what the message is if you've quoted Quatona.

Oh, I am quite certain that I do not know what you think the message of the cross is. There seem to be a number of messages around... and those that I read about are, in my view, stupid.

How about you tell me what you think it is?

As for the way they are used in an offensive way... how about "if you don't accept this message, you are ungrateful and hate Jesus. YOU have crucified Jesus! How could you do that to the best person ever, you ungrateful heathen?" (paraphrased, of course, but I have gotten this 'message' more than once.)

 

[quatona]

I'm not ceratin that you know what the message is if you've quoted Quatona.

I´ve been trying to understand the message of this statement, but to no avail.

 

[agua]

How about you tell me what you think it is?

You indicated that the message that Christians present is stupid.

If you don't wish to tell me that's ok.

 

[Freodin]

You indicated that the message that Christians present is stupid.

If you don't wish to tell me that's ok.

For example:

"The Cross is the Power of God simply because it was there that the total sin debt was paid, giving the Holy Spirit, in Whom the Power resides, latitude to work mightily within our lives."

This is, in my view, stupid.

So, how about you answer my question now: what do you is the message of the cross?

 

[agua]

"The Cross is the Power of God simply because it was there that the total sin debt was paid, giving the Holy Spirit, in Whom the Power resides, latitude to work mightily within our lives."

Is that what you think the message of the Cross is ?