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Man fall because of his choice, not because God lead him into it. The capacity of choice is within every one of us and there is nothing bad in it, as there is nothing bad in a knife, it depends how you use it.
Yes, what to it? What happens next depends entirely on God´s character, I guess.Hello there guys. I am sure this have been discussed before in this forum, but I would like to know your point of view in my post here. What if, after all, the judeo-christian turns out to be the only one (as I believe He is), you die, but you realize you are perfectly conscious, you have your memories intact, but you are standing before Christ, before God, and it turns out that your entire life you have been denying Him. What now?
If you're not wrong, you're not wrong.
The real interesting question is to ask how could any deity be so angry about someone just getting something wrong.
dumpsterdiver45 [/quote said:Because they're recorded by fallible humans. The only theists left listening to this argument are the rigid fundamentalists who created it
This is one of the most satisfying responses I've seen in a while.
Hello there guys. I am sure this have been discussed before in this forum, but I would like to know your point of view in my post here. What if, after all, the judeo-christian turns out to be the only one (as I believe He is), you die, but you realize you are perfectly conscious, you have your memories intact, but you are standing before Christ, before God, and it turns out that your entire life you have been denying Him. What now?
Wryetui said:Man fall because of his choice, not because God lead him into it. The capacity of choice is within every one of us and there is nothing bad in it, as there is nothing bad in a knife, it depends how you use it.
What do you want God to do? To burst into Saudi Arabia forcing everyone to believe in His Son? Wouldn't that make all the atheists in the world criticize Him because He was a liar concerning free will? Oh but that's no problem, He would shut up those atheists by brainwashing them too, and now that He got into brainwashing, let's just brainwash all people, forcing them to be like robots and making them believe in Him, done!
I find it quite awesome how atheists always argue about God not helping the rest of the world by sending His grace over them and making them be saved, but they don't look at themselves. Look at you, you live in a christian country, you were a christian but you refused God completely, you chose not to love Him and you rather say He doesn't exist, but yet complain about God not forcing people around the world to believe in Him
The rigid fundamentalists are probably simply uncomfortable with the ambiguity of the problem of "what God wants" being just as unclear as other problems of the world.
Does not answer the question.
If man has the choice to sin, this would mean he was not created "perfect", because being perfect, would be absent the ability to sin.
Tell me, did God know man would sin, or was he surprised at man sinning?
True story. I've always thought of fundamentalism as psychologically motivated by a demand for certainty, a lack of comfort with dealing with ambiguity.
What do you want God to do? To burst into Saudi Arabia forcing everyone to believe in His Son? Wouldn't that make all the atheists in the world criticize Him because He was a liar concerning free will? Oh but that's no problem, He would shut up those atheists by brainwashing them too, and now that He got into brainwashing, let's just brainwash all people, forcing them to be like robots and making them believe in Him, done!
I find it quite awesome how atheists always argue about God not helping the rest of the world by sending His grace over them and making them be saved, but they don't look at themselves. Look at you, you live in a christian country, you were a christian but you refused God completely, you chose not to love Him and you rather say He doesn't exist, but yet complain about God not forcing people around the world to believe in Him
Who created the snake?
Not at all. But wait, first where does the supposition that man was supposed to have been "perfect" come from?
Scripture says man was "good." Hebrew has its words that mean "perfect" and it's words that mean "good," and the difference is about the same as the difference between those two English words.
So first the notion that Adam was "perfect" is not supported by scripture. Adam was "good."
You often here some Christians claim God created a "perfect" world and one has in this thread. I guess from your view point, you disagree, because I would assume, a perfect world would include perfect man.
As I've said before, "This is God's Plan A." Scripture says over and over again that God had all of this planned before He even created the universe.
For me, it is not about "denying", it is about being able to reconcile the story with reality in my own mind.
Since I could no longer reconcile the story after 40 years of being a Christian, I couldn't pretend I believed it, when I didn't.
I live in Australia. Please explain how the aboriginal people of my country could have avoided hell for the last several thousand years, since your God supposedly revealed himself to mankind? Or the Inuit? Or the Aztecs? Or the Japanese? Or Mongolians? Countless millions have gone to their deaths, never having known about this deity of yours, simply because their births were geographically inconvenient. And now, you would have us believe, they reside in hell through no fault of their own.
I've found that people who embrace ambiguity baulk at solid standards and certainty, because it requires uncomfortable decisions and hard work to be certain. Also certainty is polarising, as Jesus suggested.
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