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The heat problem that she brought up was discussed many years ago in an older forum back in the 80s on usenet called talk.origins.
Do yourself a favour - read the OP.What "heat problem"?
To whom is it a "problem"?
Creationists?
I doubt it.
Do yourself a favour - read the OP.
May I draw your attention to the video, labeled:
Young Earth Creationism is Physically Impossible: The HEAT Problem
A typical YEC argument is radiometric dating can't be trusted as the decay rates may have been much faster in the past before setting down to the rates we observe today.
Even if this was true radioactive decay being an exothermic process produces heat irrespective of the decay rate which raises the question how was all this heat spanning Earth's history dissipated in the YEC time frame?
I'm happy you found some great new information in the video, but I'm pretty sure you didn't find any "problem" for an omnipotent God.There's a lot of great new to me information in the video. The heat problem that she brought up was discussed many years ago in an older forum back in the 80s on usenet called talk.origins. So it was nice to see her bring it up again.
It's a bazaar trick. I've seen it done in North Africa and very convincing it is too. Is that what Aaron did? Does that make it less of a miracle? Or was it divine providence that Aaron knew the trick and could use it effectively when he needed to?I'd be willing to meet you halfway and say fair enough. If it's only the science being criticized, I'm all for separating bad science from good science. But the problem is this: "creation" as understood by Christians is a miraculous event regardless of how or when it occurred. You know the story in Exodus where Aaron throws his staff down in front of Pharaoh and it turns into a snake? Would you bother going to hear a scientist lecture on how inanimate objects can't instantly turn into living creatures? You can believe or disbelieve the story, but going to hear a scientist disprove it would be kind of stupid, wouldn't it?
I think my problems aren't with believed images of a omnipotent God. But there seems to be way more hocus-pocus involved in order to make things line up with said beliefs. That's where I have problems.I'm happy you found some great new information in the video, but I'm pretty sure you didn't find any "problem" for an omnipotent God.
Talk about the existence of God is always a red herring in these discussions. It's about the Bible, first last and always.I think my problems aren't with believed images of a omnipotent God. But there seems to be way more hocus-pocus involved in order to make things line up with said beliefs. That's where I have problems.
It's a bazaar trick.
I've seen it done in North Africa and very convincing it is too.
I think my problems aren't with believed images of a omnipotent God. But there seems to be way more hocus-pocus involved in order to make things line up with said beliefs. That's where I have problems.
Don't know about that part--a street magician in a souk is not likely to allow his snakes to eat each other, they're too expensive The magicians are not, after all, trying to replicate Aaron's performance. Or it could have been a literary embellishment by the author. Or the whole thing could have been a miracle. The point is, that there is no scientific evidence that any of it happened at all. Nothing for science to take a position on, one way or the other.It got bizarrer too, didn't it?
Exodus 7:12 For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.
I have a feeling the reason it was so "convincing" is because they left part of the "trick" out.
The part where the rods got swallowed.
Don't know about that part--a street magician in a souk is not likely to allow his snakes to eat each other, they're too expensive.
The magicians are not, after all, trying to replicate Aaron's performance.
Or it could have been a literary embellishment by the author.
Or the whole thing could have been a miracle.
The point is, that there is no scientific evidence that any of it happened at all.
Nothing for science to take a position on, one way or the other.
At times there are examples of natural extensions to a miracle.Don't know about that part--a street magician in a souk is not likely to allow his snakes to eat each other, they're too expensive The magicians are not, after all, trying to replicate Aaron's performance. Or it could have been a literary embellishment by the author. Or the whole thing could have been a miracle. The point is, that there is no scientific evidence that any of it happened at all. Nothing for science to take a position on, one way or the other.
A God of creation who is above His creation and is able to control it and subdue it by doing the miraculous. Now that is something to place faith in.
I understand. For myself, it's about the Earth and what she is showing us. The Earth, as Created by God's own hand is straight up and can not lie any more than God can lie. So what am I to believe? I have zero confidence in the creation stores of an ancient middle-eastern tribe of desert nomads and complete trust in the Earth's story that's coming to light.Talk about the existence of God is always a red herring in these discussions. It's about the Bible, first last and always.
There is a bush which grows in the Negev, dictamnus albus, whose leaves exude volatile oils which can burn off without harming the plant. Also in the region there are limestone springs which crust over and stop flowing, If you strike at the crust with a stick, the crust will break open and the pent-up water will come rushing out.At times there are examples of natural extensions to a miracle.
Eve eating a fruit, and gaining a form of spiritual enlightenment is considered supernatural (or miraculous/miracle), and thus written off as myth, or merely symbolic. However, Native American tribes had ingested certain vegetation that gave them spiritual enlightenment (although generally deceptive). There are scientific explanations for the hallucinations from Peyote that might be an extension to a miraculous enlightenment obtained from the fruit Eve ingested.
I was commenting about things that are still in your post.I removed the superfluous part of asking me about a claim I did not and would not ever make. So, why waste time on a straw man etc.
I'd say your post was more of a dry sponge than a strawman, but sponges hadn't evolved yet by 3.2 Gya.I left the one substantial question from your post though above -- and it's about what I directly answered in that same post, so I'll just copy it here again. I'll add italics.
"Of course, that has little or nothing to do with the Flood Story we were discussing, but what I'm trying to point out is one needs to be pretty cautious about just asserting conclusions that are too broad."
That's the challenge I suggest to anyone: stop making overly broad conclusions.
There is a bush which grows in the Negev, dictamnus albus, whose leaves exude volatile oils which can burn off without harming the plant.
Also in the region there are limestone springs which crust over and stop flowing, If you strike at the crust with a stick, the crust will break open and the pent-up water will come rushing out.
Do voices come from them?
Don't know, wasn't there. But was it a miracle? What was the miracle? Moses was raised as the second son of a Pharaoh. As such, he would have been subjected to intensive training in military staff work, learning how to move and supply large groups of people. He then underwent a harsh desert survival course (including the water trick). So, when it was time to lead his people out of Egypt and through the desert, he knew how to do it. The right man at the right time, trained to do the job. How did that chance to happen? To my mind, that was the miracle.
And provide enough water for two million people, as well as their flocks and herds?
Yes, there are natural phenomena that at times may act as a precursor to a miracle, or show that the concept of the miracle is not out of the question. Transporting animals by ship to other parts of the world is not miraculous as it's done all the time. So it's not inconceivable that after the flood, animals were transported by ship to places they would not have been able to get to. The miraculous parts might be animals coming to the ark, remaining tame in the ark, etc.There is a bush which grows in the Negev, dictamnus albus, whose leaves exude volatile oils which can burn off without harming the plant. Also in the region there are limestone springs which crust over and stop flowing, If you strike at the crust with a stick, the crust will break open and the pent-up water will come rushing out.
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