yea or nay---war or not

Jehova

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There are certain reasons why I support the war, and others why I don't. This war is a complicated issue and you have to really look close into both sides' view to get a complete understanding of why the United States and the rest of the coalition is at war. I don't like war, but there must be something that the governments of these countries know that I don't.

I am originally against it, but I am seeing the other side of the story.
 
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I am in support of the war....I wish we didn't have to go to war but I believe it is necessary. There is a great country song that just came out "Have you Forgotten" it talks about 9/11 and what we are fighting about.  It goes like this:

Some people complain about this war we're gettin' in
Before you start your preaching let me ask you this my friend


(chorus) Have you forgotten how it felt that day
To see your Homeland under fire and Her people blown away
Have you forgotten when those Towers fell we had neighbors still inside going through a living hell...


And you say we shouldn't worry about Bin Laden...Have you forgotten

They took all the footage off my TV
They say it's too disturbing for you and me
It will just breed anger...that's what the experts say
If it was up to me I'd show it everyday.


Some say this Country's just looking for a fight
Well after 9/11 man, I'd have to say that's right


(repeat chorus)

And we vowed to get the ones behind Bin Laden...Have you forgotten

I've been there with the soldiers who've gone away to war and you can bet that they remember just what they're fighting for

Have you forgotten all the people killed yeah some went down like heros in that Pennsylvania field. Have you forgotten about our Penegon All the loved ones that we lost and those left to carry on

Don't you tell me not to worry about Bin Laden :mad:

Have you forgotten... Have you forgotten...Have you forgotten.

In short Yes I believe it is the time for war....A poll might be a good idea to add to this thread.

Love and God Bless :)

 
 
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1st April 2003 at 02:19 PM Chevy said this in Post #8

Iraq did not attack us on 9/11, muslim terrorists did. there is no evidence of a link between al-qaida and iraq.
  Maybe you should do a little more research.  Not only are they linked but Saddam Insane is killing his own people and torturing them...so we should just turn our backs and say it's not our problem. They have weapons of mass destruction...should we wait for them to use them???  Nobody likes war but sometimes you got to fight for a better good.

Love and God Bless.
 
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feral

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i am uncertain about the war because i don't understand why we are doing this. if we are truly diarming a dangerous psychopath then great...if we are bullying people for no reason other then warmongering then nay. some say this is a war for oil (gas prices went up today were i live) and others say that it is against islam...i am lost. if iraq poses no threat to us, but the government is truly committing atrocities against the iraqi people then that should be stopped. my only concern comes from the fact that i don't trust bush at all. i suppose i should have been here when the vote was on...but i wasn't..
 
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Jutsuka

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1st April 2003 at 09:37 PM Messenger said this in Post #9

&nbsp; Maybe you should do a little more research.&nbsp; Not only are they linked but Saddam Insane is killing his own people and torturing them...so we should just turn our backs and say it's not our problem. They have weapons of mass destruction...should we wait for them to use them???&nbsp; Nobody likes war but sometimes you got to fight for a better good.

Love and God Bless.


There is no proof of Iraqi involment in the attacks on 11/9, there is however unsubstantiated allegations that originated in the White House.

Saddam Hussein is many things but he is NOT stupid, he wants to stay in power so there would have been no reason to:

1. Ally with mabey the greatest threat to his rule (Osama Bin Laden who would gladly see Saddam Hussein hung from a light pole).

2. In any way&nbsp;risk being&nbsp;linked to&nbsp;a futile terrorist attack on the USA and bring down the wrath of the USA on himself when there was nothing to gain for himself.

3. And the "He hates America..." defense is not valid, yes he hates the US but not so much he would not attack the US without being sure of complete victory.

Yes he is torturing his own people, suprise! There are a many dictatorships in the world that does that, a US allie, Saudi Arabia comes to mind...

As for WMD:s, that remains to be seen. However Saddam is not stupid as I have stated before, there is no way he would have used them unless he was sure of victory nad that would not have been possible. And 93% of the WMD:s we know he had has been destroyed, if the inspectors had been allowed to do their job he could have been disarmed peacefully...

And if you think Bush and Co is doing this for the greater good, think again...

www.newamericancentury.org
 
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3rd April 2003 at 03:59 AM Jutsuka said this in Post #12




There is no proof of Iraqi involment in the attacks on 11/9, there is however unsubstantiated allegations that originated in the White House.

Saddam Hussein is many things but he is NOT stupid, he wants to stay in power so there would have been no reason to:

1. Ally with mabey the greatest threat to his rule (Osama Bin Laden who would gladly see Saddam Hussein hung from a light pole).

2. In any way&nbsp;risk being&nbsp;linked to&nbsp;a futile terrorist attack on the USA and bring down the wrath of the USA on himself when there was nothing to gain for himself.

3. And the "He hates America..." defense is not valid, yes he hates the US but not so much he would not attack the US without being sure of complete victory.

Yes he is torturing his own people, suprise! There are a many dictatorships in the world that does that, a US allie, Saudi Arabia comes to mind...

As for WMD:s, that remains to be seen. However Saddam is not stupid as I have stated before, there is no way he would have used them unless he was sure of victory nad that would not have been possible. And 93% of the WMD:s we know he had has been destroyed, if the inspectors had been allowed to do their job he could have been disarmed peacefully...

And if you think Bush and Co is doing this for the greater good, think again...

www.newamericancentury.org


I don't know about November 9th??? :rolleyes:&nbsp; But 9/11 I believe Saddam Insane did have a part in....and even if he did not he didn't get rid of his WMD and this could be a continuation of the Gulf War. Now I don't claim to KNOW exactly what is going on but from what I do I think the US is fighting for a greater good. Even if this were to just stop Saddam from torturing his own I'd say yeah. We can't just turn our backs on those being mistreated. When their are starving children in other countries the US brings food...and then we say yeah...we don't say those starving children aren't our problem. So now there are people being tortured Women being beheaded...top Iraq military officers being tortured and slaughtered because they lost the Gulf War and now you say let them suffer it isn't our problem. The US is doing everything in it's power not to hurt civilians and the cowardly Iraq "army" is dressing as civilians and putting their own people in danger. Saddam is STUPID!!!&nbsp; Saddam is EVIL...Good will always prevail over evil. We will WIN and the people of IRAQ will WIN but Saddam Insane will get a direct one way ticket to Hell. Now I pray Saddam could change his ways but that is up to him and if he doesn't he is indeed STUPID. A leader is suppose to care for their people and when that isn't so I am glad to have a President who not only looks after his people but all of humanity. WWJD???&nbsp; I don't believe Jesus would look at the torture Saddam Insane does to his people and say "It's not my problem."&nbsp;

You say if the inspectors were allowed to stay they would have been able to disarm peacefully...Saddam sent them away. We gave Saddam enough time to get rid of what he shouldn't have had in the first place...should we give him the time to use them....I'll look at the website you list. But I'll tell you I am very proud of the heros fighting in this War. And God Bless those who brought the 19 year old POW out of harms way!&nbsp;

Love and God Bless.
 
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I went to the website you have linked us to...If you go to that website and type in war with Iraq and read the 4th story it is :WHY IRAQ? IF SADDAM STAYS IN POWER, THE WAR ON TERRORISM WILL HAVE FAILED. BY GARY SCHMITT. This article explains in much greater detail why we believe Iraq is linked to 9/11.

Here's a little of the article:

" Shortly before getting on a plane to fly to New Jersey from Europe in June 2000, Mohamed Atta, the lead hijaker of the first jet airliner to slam into the Wrold Trade Center and apparently, the lead conspiritor in the attacks of September 11, met with a senior Iraqi intelligence official. This was no chance encounter. Rather than take a flight from Germany, where he had been living, Atta traveled to Prague, almost certainly for the purpose of meeting there with Iraqi intelligence operative Ahmed Samir Ahani.

To understand the significance of this meeting, put yourself in the position of a terrorist. you work within a small cell of operatives; you are are continually concerned about security; and you are about to launch a mission designed to bring unprecedented death and destruction to the world's most powerful country. The last thing you would do would be to meet with a foreign official- especilly one from a country whose "diplomats" are presumably under close surveillance-- unless the meeting were critical to your mission. In light of the otherwise sould "tradecraft" demonstrated by Atta and his confederaters in the run-up to September 11, Attawould never have met with an Iraqi intelligence officer unless the Iraqi had been in some way in on the operation.

I'm not going to type the whole article but if you go to the website you listed and look it up it goes into even greater depth on how Saddam is linked with Bin Ladden. You can't say nay to war without all the facts.

Thanks for the website I have learned even more reasons why we must fight for freedom.

Love and God Bless.
 
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3rd April 2003 at 12:51 PM Jutsuka said this in Post #16




Only silly Americans place the month before the day... :cool:

Maybe silly but not silly enough to list a website that goes totally against the stand I'm trying to take. :help: Did you happen to read the article and how much proof there is that Iraq was involve in 9/11 or as you say 11/9...Why not read from the very website that you showed us???&nbsp;&nbsp;

Anyway your stand doesn't amount to a hill of beans cause you don't even have an understanding of the stand your taking. Educate yourself a little and then we'll talk. :idea:

Love and God Bless :hug:


:hug:
 
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Jutsuka

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3rd April 2003 at 08:28 PM Messenger said this in Post #17



Maybe silly but not silly enough to list a website that goes totally against the stand I'm trying to take. :help: Did you happen to read the article and how much proof there is that Iraq was involve in 9/11 or as you say 11/9...Why not read from the very website that you showed us???&nbsp;&nbsp;

Anyway your stand doesn't amount to a hill of beans cause you don't even have an understanding of the stand your taking. Educate yourself a little and then we'll talk. :idea:

Love and God Bless :hug:


:hug:

Ever heard the expression "read between the lines..."?

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

From the New American Century Statements Of Principles"we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;"

So they're saying that ties with democratic countries should be strengthened if they are "allies".... (i.e. probably not France, etc)

It says to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values (i.e. France, etc).

I wonder what "challenge" means.... it could possibly mean that hostile (dissenting) regimes would have a regime change...

"it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century&nbsp;and to ensure our security and our <B>greatness</B> in the next."

"we need to increase defense spending <B>significantly</B>"

Your defence spending in recent years is almost equal to the rest of the world combined already.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/lettersstatements.htm

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqletter1998.htm

Ten of the founding members of this organization now hold posts in the current Bush administration. (V.P., SecDef and DepSecDef, just to name three.) Also, please note the endorsement of one letter by the Heritage Foundation...and the inclusion of Edwin Meese, of The Federalist Society...among other interesting names within that particular group....especially the first two.


1. The Iraq war has been in the works since 1998 and was then as now primarily about Saddams threat to US control of the Persian&nbsp;Gulf arena and not about a threat to the securtiy if the US. Iraq is the key to control of the arab world.

2. It is also the first step in the new policy of unilateral action that the US has embarked upon in order to strenghten its positon as the only superpower in the world and allow for further unilateral actions in all areas of US foreign policies.

Those behind the New American Century&nbsp;are convinced, and not without historical cause(Japan and Germany), that the only way to advance true democracy is through American&nbsp;leadership because&nbsp;your claimed ultimate goal is a peaceful and harmonious world open to free trade and capitalism rather than physical conquest. I suspect that they believe that America missed the opportunity to do this immediately after WWII. The events of 9/11, coupled with the religious fervor of&nbsp;your current government, has given them a prime opportunity to invoke their vision of a "Pax Americana" on the world...using pre-emptive force of arms. Not to mention their economic interests in the area...

Here's a good article:

http://smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/07/1046826528748.html#top

Another:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/iraq/issues_analysis/realitycheck030317.html
 
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3rd April 2003 at 02:45 PM Jutsuka said this in Post #19



Ever heard the expression "read between the lines..."?

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

From the New American Century Statements Of Principles"we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;"

So they're saying that ties with democratic countries should be strengthened if they are "allies".... (i.e. probably not France, etc)

It says to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values (i.e. France, etc).

I wonder what "challenge" means.... it could possibly mean that hostile (dissenting) regimes would have a regime change...

"it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century&nbsp;and to ensure our security and our <B>greatness</B> in the next."

"we need to increase defense spending <B>significantly</B>"

Your defence spending in recent years is almost equal to the rest of the world combined already.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/lettersstatements.htm

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqletter1998.htm

Ten of the founding members of this organization now hold posts in the current Bush administration. (V.P., SecDef and DepSecDef, just to name three.) Also, please note the endorsement of one letter by the Heritage Foundation...and the inclusion of Edwin Meese, of The Federalist Society...among other interesting names within that particular group....especially the first two.


1. The Iraq war has been in the works since 1998 and was then as now primarily about Saddams threat to US control of the Persian&nbsp;Gulf arena and not about a threat to the securtiy if the US. Iraq is the key to control of the arab world.

2. It is also the first step in the new policy of unilateral action that the US has embarked upon in order to strenghten its positon as the only superpower in the world and allow for further unilateral actions in all areas of US foreign policies.

Those behind the New American Century&nbsp;are convinced, and not without historical cause(Japan and Germany), that the only way to advance true democracy is through American&nbsp;leadership because&nbsp;your claimed ultimate goal is a peaceful and harmonious world open to free trade and capitalism rather than physical conquest. I suspect that they believe that America missed the opportunity to do this immediately after WWII. The events of 9/11, coupled with the religious fervor of&nbsp;your current government, has given them a prime opportunity to invoke their vision of a "Pax Americana" on the world...using pre-emptive force of arms. Not to mention their economic interests in the area...

Here's a good article:

http://smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/07/1046826528748.html#top

Another:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/iraq/issues_analysis/realitycheck030317.html

Go ahead and call me a silly American if you wish but I don't see the point you are trying to make with any of these articles if you believe they say we shouldn't go to war with Iraq. You have totally lost me. But your a Buddist and from Sweeden so I'm sure therein lies much of my lack of understanding of you???&nbsp; The original topic was what veiw do "Christians" have on the war....Yea of Nay. I gave reasons and took it a little off topic and you are neither an American or a Christian so I'll just let this one go.

God Bless America!!!&nbsp;

Love and God Bless :hug:
 
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Jutsuka

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4th April 2003 at 01:52 AM Messenger said this in Post #20



Go ahead and call me a silly American if you wish but I don't see the point you are trying to make with any of these articles if you believe they say we shouldn't go to war with Iraq. You have totally lost me. But your a Buddist and from Sweeden so I'm sure therein lies much of my lack of understanding of you???&nbsp; The original topic was what veiw do "Christians" have on the war....Yea of Nay. I gave reasons and took it a little off topic and you are neither an American or a Christian so I'll just let this one go.

God Bless America!!!&nbsp;

Love and God Bless :hug:

I was trying to show you that this is far from being a "just" war by showing you that the reasons given by your current goverment are only excuses to attack another soveregin state in unilateral manner to advance the New American Centurys policies.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0304.marshall.html


&nbsp;
 
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