Would you prefer it if “Christian universalism” were true?

[BNR32FAN]

I doubt he and Fr. Carbo would be calling it the Orthodox view of salvation, if it wasn't so. And likewise I doubt Brad Jersak who did the first version posted, would be on such good terms with Archbishop Lazar if the chairs presentation misrepresented Orthodoxy.

Still Matthew 7:21 goes unaddressed. Origen taught heresies in a Catholic school so why do you think these men can’t do it as well?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'm pretty sure Steve feels quite certain that isn't God's plan. No ifs about it.

Yes he “feels” that but should we allow our feelings to override Jesus’ words?

 

[ozso]

Im sorry but what your adding to Matthew 7:21 directly contradicts what Jesus said so I can’t accept that as a possibility. As for Matthew 21:31 I don’t see that as meaning that the Pharisees will enter Heaven after tax collectors and prostitutes. If I said I would let ISIS into my house before I let you into my house that doesn’t mean that I’m going to let ISIS or you into my house at any point in time. What it means is that you are worse than these people who I would not let into my house. And as for Philippians 2:10-11 this is irrelevant according to Matthew 7:21.

There's nothing I can see in those verses where Jesus adds that they will be cast into eternal torment. In 7:23 he just says "depart from me". In Matthew 21:31 Jesus says, the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before them. That indicates to me that they will enter, but only after the others.

 

[ozso]

Yes he “feels” that but should we allow our feelings to override Jesus’ words?

Okay, I think he believes it, wholeheartedly. Based on scripture.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There's nothing I can see in those verses where Jesus adds that they will be cast into eternal torment. In 7:23 he just says "depart from me". In Matthew 21:31 Jesus says, the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before them. That indicates to me that they will enter, but only after the others.

He said “ not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”

As for Matthew 21:31 if I said to you I would let ISIS in my house before I let you in does that mean that I’m going to let you or ISIS in at some point?

 

[ozso]

Still Matthew 7:21 goes unaddressed. Origen taught heresies in a Catholic school so why do you think these men can’t do it as well?

Okay, you find where the Orthodox church has charged them with heresy and then you'll have a case. As far as I know no one has been censured by the EO church for teaching that. Why is Archbishop Lazar such good friend and mentor to Brad Jersak if he's teaching what the EO church considers heresy? Or why hasn't the EO church censured Archbishop Lazar for his association with Brad Jersak?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Okay, you find where the Orthodox church has charged them with heresy and then you'll have a case. As far as I know no one has been censured by the EO church for teaching that. Why is Archbishop Lazar such good friend and mentor to Brad Jersak if he's teaching what the EO church considers heresy? Or why hasn't the EO church censured Archbishop Lazar for his association with Brad Jersak?

They can’t charge him with heresy if there is no official doctrine. One thing I love about the EOC is that they are open to speculation as long as it doesn’t contradict scripture or ecumenical canons. I don’t know, maybe they don’t think he is contradicting scripture, but I do. I’m not Eastern Orthodox, I just hold the church in high regards.

 

[ozso]

He said “ not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”

As for Matthew 21:31 if I said to you I would let ISIS in my house before I let you in does that mean that I’m going to let you or ISIS in at some point?

Jesus also said it's impossible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

On Matthew 21:31 Elliott's commentary says,

"Go into the kingdom of God before you.--Which literally means, lead the way into. What follows shows that our Lord is stating not so much a law of God's government as a simple fact. The choice of the word is significant as implying that there was still time for scribes and Pharisees to follow in the rear. The door was not yet closed against them, though those whom they despised had taken the place of honour and preceded them."

Find a commentary that supports your version.

 

[ozso]

They can’t charge him with heresy if there is no official doctrine. One thing I love about the EOC is that they are open to speculation as long as it doesn’t contradict scripture or ecumenical canons. I don’t know, maybe they don’t think he is contradicting scripture, but I do. I’m not Eastern Orthodox, I just hold the church in high regards.

It wasn't presented as speculation, it was presented as EO theology. It was "this is the Orthodox view of salvation". Not "this is how I think salvation works".

 

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus also said it's impossible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

On Matthew 21:31 Elliott's commentary says,

"Go into the kingdom of God before you.--Which literally means, lead the way into. What follows shows that our Lord is stating not so much a law of God's government as a simple fact. The choice of the word is significant as implying that there was still time for scribes and Pharisees to follow in the rear. The door was not yet closed against them, though those whom they despised had taken the place of honour and preceded them."

Find a commentary that supports your version.

I don’t do commentaries. Here’s why

Jesus is not God - Bible Verses and Proofs | Stay Biblical

How can Jesus and Lucifer be spirit brothers when their characters and purposes are so utterly opposed?

Did Jesus Die for Everyone?

Are any of these true? I can find a commentary for just about every heresy known to man. That’s why they’re useless.

 

[ozso]

I don’t do commentaries. Here’s why

Jesus is not God - Bible Verses and Proofs | Stay Biblical

How can Jesus and Lucifer be spirit brothers when their characters and purposes are so utterly opposed?

Did Jesus Die for Everyone?

Are any of these true? I can find a commentary for just about every heresy known to man. That’s why they’re useless.

You're comparing those people to Charles Ellicott? lol. Ellicott has a very well establish century old reputation as a theologian.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It wasn't presented as speculation, it was presented as EO theology. It was "this is the Orthodox view of salvation". Not "this is how I think salvation works".

Seeing that it has not been decided in an ecumenical council I would say that is a bold statement when so many in the EOC reject universalism. I’m confident that if the comments were on we would probably see that.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You're comparing those people to Charles Ellicott? lol.

I have no clue who Charles Elliot is.

 

[ozso]

Seeing that it has not been decided in an ecumenical council I would say that is a bold statement when so many in the EOC reject universalism. I’m confident that if the comments were on we would probably see that.

You'd trust youtube comments but not Charles Ellicott.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus also said it's impossible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

On Matthew 21:31 Elliott's commentary says,

"Go into the kingdom of God before you.--Which literally means, lead the way into. What follows shows that our Lord is stating not so much a law of God's government as a simple fact. The choice of the word is significant as implying that there was still time for scribes and Pharisees to follow in the rear. The door was not yet closed against them, though those whom they despised had taken the place of honour and preceded them."

Find a commentary that supports your version.

Do you realize how closely this is related to the RCC interpretation of 1 Corinthians 3:15 in support of purgatory?

Im sorry wrong verse I meant Matthew 12:31-32

““Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12:31-32‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[ozso]

I have no clue who Charles Elliot is.

He's one of the most well respected Bible commentators.

 

[BNR32FAN]

He's one of the most well respected Bible commentators.

In certain crowds I’m sure.

 

[ozso]

Do you realize how closely this is related to the RCC interpretation of 1 Corinthians 3:15 in support of purgatory?

Im sorry wrong verse I meant Matthew 12:31-32

““Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12:31-32‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Bro, the commentary was on Matthew 21:31, not 12:31. I think maybe you need a nap.

 

[BNR32FAN]

He's one of the most well respected Bible commentators.

I wouldn’t be surprised if people said something similar about Caiaphas.

 

[ozso]

In certain crowds I’m sure.

Overall. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.