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Would you kill someone if God told you to?

Would you kill someone if God told you to?

  • Yes

  • No


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GrayAngel

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God killed a man for touching the Ark of the Covenant, when all the man was trying to do was keep it from falling and shattering. How was this man's actions harmful to society?

God sent a plague on David's men, killing 70,000 of them, just because he counted his army. How was David counting the men in his army harmful to society?

The Ark killed anyone who would ever touch it so that its contents, the law and symbol of God's everlasting covenant, could never be removed, no exceptions. I doubt the man went to Hell for it.

David disobeyed an order from God, seeking confidence in his own power over confidence in God's power.

In neither of these cases did God ask anyone to do the killing. God did it Himself.

Peace,
do you see this error?

There is no error. God wouldn't order someone to kill another without good reason. There's a distinction between murder, execution, and war.
 
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Grumpy Old Man

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Abraham did not kill his son. A curse does not kill either, but God causes it to happen. Moses and the prophets who ordered the deaths of others did so because of something those people did wrong, and because they were harmful for their society. It would be different today, when we have prisons and law enforcement to contain and handle criminals. If God did order someone to be killed, it would have to be for a very good reason.

Firstly, it doesn't matter that Abraham did not kill his son. What mattered was Abraham's willingness, which God praised him for.

Secondly, you state Moses and the other prophets killed because the people who deserved it were deemed harmful to society. Given that Christians frequently say homosexuality will destroy society, why aren't Christians stoning homosexuals to death (as the Bible commands)?


No. Abraham knew God's voice.

How do you know this for certain? For that matter, Christians seem to to blindly believe that the prophets in the Bible all knew they were hearing from God. Yet my own experience at church showed me that most Christians get it wrong when they believe God is speaking to them. They act on what they believe is God, and find out later that they made a terrible mistake, or something goes wrong, etc. Furthermore, the vast number of Christian denominations is probably good evidence that Christians, these days, just aren't hearing from God AT ALL.

A person who is mentally ill will have symptoms of their illness. Plus, we now have the technology where we can look at the brain and see if its physical structure resembles, say, schizophrenia.

For someone to believe they are hearing from God does not necessitate that they are mentally ill. Also, consider that George W Bush believed he heard from God who told him to go to war against Iraq. Would you say Bush was mentally ill? I'd say he was probably stupid, but not mentally ill. Bush was convinced (or so he claims) that he heard from God.

If someone is hearing from God, then what they say will:

1. not contradict God's word, as it has already been given to us.

2. bring predictions that come true.

3. be consistent with the personality of God, as one who is loving of His people but hateful of sin.

God himself is a contradictory character. Compare the NT with the early parts of the OT (Genesis to Joshua) and you'll see two different sides to God that contrast with each other. Jesus is full of mercy and grace, whereas Yahweh is a jealous and angry God.

If God does actually talk to people, given his seemingly erratic nature, it would be hard to tell just what message is coming across. God likes to play both good cop and bad cop at the same time it seems.

Also, I'd just like everyone to know (for anyone interested in the poll on this thread) that it wasn't me who voted yes (there's currently 1 yes vote at the time of writing). I haven't read through all the thread yet, so I don't know who voted yes. It may well be an atheist trolling the thread via the poll, or it may be Christian. Either way, I'm not going to judge. Whoever voted yes, it's a matter for their own conscience.
 
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Grumpy Old Man

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This really is a trap you're trying to set here. If we vote yes, then you'll think, "Wow! Christians really are immoral!" But if we vote no, then you'll say that we doubt God's right to define morality for us. No matter what we do, it's not going to change your mind about anything.

It's a loaded question, I'll admit that. My thinking was that if a Christian votes yes, then they're possibly a danger to society. And if they vote no, then it means their morality is not based on God, but based on their own conscience. As I said in the OP, some Christians like to claim that people can't be good without God. Any Christian who claims this and voted no to the question (i.e., if they literally believed God told them to kill someone but rejected this command) cannot then claim that all morality comes from God.
 
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Grumpy Old Man

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To summarize: Contrary to what the OP believes, in the Bible, God has indeed killed for acts that didn't harm society in any way, while creating laws that are harmful to society, which often end in death for petty reasons.

How do you know what I believe? You're actually wrong. I'm well aware that God killed for petty reasons, and you've given some examples yourself. Check out Ezekiel 24:15-18;

Ezekiel 24:15-18
English Standard Version (ESV)

Ezekiel's Wife Dies

15 The word of the Lord came to me: 16 “Son of man, behold, I am about to take the delight of your eyes away from you at a stroke; yet you shall not mourn or weep, nor shall your tears run down. 17 Sigh, but not aloud; make no mourning for the dead. Bind on your turban, and put your shoes on your feet; do not cover your lips, nor eat the bread of men.” 18 So I spoke to the people in the morning, and at evening my wife died. And on the next morning I did as I was commanded.

God kills Ezekiel's wife for no other reason than to be an example to Israel of what he was going to do to them.
 
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razeontherock

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Firstly, it doesn't matter that Abraham did not kill his son.

Why not? (You're missing something MAJOR here)

What mattered was Abraham's willingness, which God praised him for.

G-d praised him for it? Really? No, G-d imputed righteousness to him for it! This "righteousness of God," is what you're struggling with. Really, it is.

And that's a noble struggle.

Secondly, you state Moses and the other prophets killed because the people who deserved it were deemed harmful to society. Given that Christians frequently say homosexuality will destroy society, why aren't Christians stoning homosexuals to death (as the Bible commands)?

Do you realize you could use the exact same words, but with a child-like heart, and be filled with wonder at the goodness on display?

consider that George W Bush believed he heard from God who told him to go to war against Iraq. Bush was convinced (or so he claims) that he heard from God.

Surely you don't believe this? For all the things that character is, stupid is not among them. You're not cynical enough to see through how he played people's heart strings with this ruse?

God likes to play both good cop and bad cop at the same time it seems.

:) This is one of your better observations. Now, to confront how in the world this can be righteous? Also: compare to "He shall Baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."

It's a loaded question, I'll admit that.

:D Honesty's always good

And if they vote no, then it means their morality is not based on God, but based on their own conscience.

You may not realize the gravity of what you just said, so I emphasize it for you to ponder some more. There is a HUGE connection here! What is the role of our conscience, wrt G-d?


I'm well aware that God killed for petty reasons

God kills Ezekiel's wife for no other reason than to be an example to Israel of what he was going to do to them.

:doh: And you call this petty? I mean, what was a Prophet's role in those days again? I do credit you for getting the point of this Scripture. what about the Prophet who was told to marry a harlot? Why? And how'd that turn out?

Awfully thin ice there, determining the works of the Almighty to be petty ...
Much safer to at least qualify it, with an "as far as I can tell, for now;" or something.
 
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Ernst Junger

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It's a loaded question, I'll admit that. My thinking was that if a Christian votes yes, then they're possibly a danger to society. And if they vote no, then it means their morality is not based on God, but based on their own conscience. As I said in the OP, some Christians like to claim that people can't be good without God. Any Christian who claims this and voted no to the question (i.e., if they literally believed God told them to kill someone but rejected this command) cannot then claim that all morality comes from God.


It's not really a loaded question. Crazy doesn't need a freakin theology to murder people. But obedience unto God is a consistent theme of the Bible.
 
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drich0150

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Christians often say that there can be no morality without God, so I thought I'd ask this question. Yes, it's a hard one but I want people to be honest. Most Christians believe that God speaks today, so what would you do if God told you to kill someone? Would you do it?

Before anyone says that God wouldn't ask this of someone in this day and age, I would stipulate that it's a hypothetical question. Also, remember there is a precedent for this in that God asked Abraham to kill Isaac.

Thankfully He has not, and He has asked that I care for what has been given to me. Otherwise I would rain down Hell fire and Brimstone if given the authority to do so.
 
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GrayAngel

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Firstly, it doesn't matter that Abraham did not kill his son. What mattered was Abraham's willingness, which God praised him for.

Secondly, you state Moses and the other prophets killed because the people who deserved it were deemed harmful to society. Given that Christians frequently say homosexuality will destroy society, why aren't Christians stoning homosexuals to death (as the Bible commands)?

It does matter that God didn't allow Abraham to kill his son, because that shows the character of God and what His true intentions were. Abraham had the nerve to doubt God when He said He would give Sarah a son, and Sarah even laughed at God. This allowed Abraham to make up for that, showing that he trusts God above all else, even when what He says doesn't make sense.

As for why I wouldn't stone homosexuals to death, for one, it's against the law. Second, Christians are commanded to love everyone, even the people who flog and kill them. It would be kind of hard to spread the Gospel while you're throwing a rock at someone.

How do you know this for certain? For that matter, Christians seem to to blindly believe that the prophets in the Bible all knew they were hearing from God. Yet my own experience at church showed me that most Christians get it wrong when they believe God is speaking to them. They act on what they believe is God, and find out later that they made a terrible mistake, or something goes wrong, etc. Furthermore, the vast number of Christian denominations is probably good evidence that Christians, these days, just aren't hearing from God AT ALL.

I've been to one of those churches where everyone thought they were prophets. The fact that they got it wrong is a sign that they can't hear from God. If they could, they would be right. When Abraham heard from God, the message came true. It doesn't hurt that He showed up in the form of an angel, either, or that his wife could also see God and the two angels that were with him. Sometimes, God is kind of hard to ignore. Who could miss a burning bush that had a voice coming from it? Or a flash of light that physically blinds you and speaks to you, and which was also experienced by the people around you?

That kind of thing never happened to me. I get the more subtle stuff. I'm not a prophet. We have the Bible to consult for God's word today.

For someone to believe they are hearing from God does not necessitate that they are mentally ill. Also, consider that George W Bush believed he heard from God who told him to go to war against Iraq. Would you say Bush was mentally ill? I'd say he was probably stupid, but not mentally ill. Bush was convinced (or so he claims) that he heard from God.

Did he really believe that, or was he just saying what he thought would win him points with the voters? Remember, he's a politician, not the pope.

God himself is a contradictory character. Compare the NT with the early parts of the OT (Genesis to Joshua) and you'll see two different sides to God that contrast with each other. Jesus is full of mercy and grace, whereas Yahweh is a jealous and angry God.

If God does actually talk to people, given his seemingly erratic nature, it would be hard to tell just what message is coming across. God likes to play both good cop and bad cop at the same time it seems.

I'll say what I've always said when this argument came up. There is no difference between the OT and NT God. The God of the OT shows mercy to the repentant sinner, and He is slow to show His wrath. The NT God killed a man and his wife for lying and trying to make themselves look good and spiritual. God shows mercy and love in both halves of the Bible, and He shows His wrath is both halves of the Bible.

Similarly, Jesus healed the masses, but He also drove our the businessmen from the temple in righteous anger. Jesus is God, so of course He's going to have the same qualities as the Father.

Also, I'd just like everyone to know (for anyone interested in the poll on this thread) that it wasn't me who voted yes (there's currently 1 yes vote at the time of writing). I haven't read through all the thread yet, so I don't know who voted yes. It may well be an atheist trolling the thread via the poll, or it may be Christian. Either way, I'm not going to judge. Whoever voted yes, it's a matter for their own conscience.


^^^Probably him. I haven't voted, since there is neither answer is full enough to express my views.
 
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iLogos

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Christians often say that there can be no morality without God, so I thought I'd ask this question. Yes, it's a hard one but I want people to be honest. Most Christians believe that God speaks today, so what would you do if God told you to kill someone? Would you do it?

Before anyone says that God wouldn't ask this of someone in this day and age, I would stipulate that it's a hypothetical question. Also, remember there is a precedent for this in that God asked Abraham to kill Isaac.

If God commanded, I would obey. That simple.
 
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ebia

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Grumpy Old Man said:
Christians often say that there can be no morality without God, so I thought I'd ask this question. Yes, it's a hard one but I want people to be honest. Most Christians believe that God speaks today, so what would you do if God told you to kill someone? Would you do it?

Before anyone says that God wouldn't ask this of someone in this day and age, I would stipulate that it's a hypothetical question. Also, remember there is a precedent for this in that God asked Abraham to kill Isaac.

No. I don't think I could. I can't even imagine what it would take to convince me it was a divine instruction.
 
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joey_downunder

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Christians often say that there can be no morality without God, so I thought I'd ask this question. Yes, it's a hard one but I want people to be honest. Most Christians believe that God speaks today, so what would you do if God told you to kill someone? Would you do it?

Before anyone says that God wouldn't ask this of someone in this day and age, I would stipulate that it's a hypothetical question. Also, remember there is a precedent for this in that God asked Abraham to kill Isaac.

No I would not. We are told that Jesus was the final sacrifice. Hebrews 10 - ESVBible.org
 
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rturner76

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I would do it. The only question is how does GOd want it done? Does he want the person to know it's coming? Any message for the person? Does God want them to feel it? Should I feel bad about it?
 
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Sketcher

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Sure, because if God wanted someone dead, that person would have done something to deserve death. Of course, I know better than to think that God tells individuals in this age to kill people.

Also, remember there is a precedent for this in that God asked Abraham to kill Isaac.
God tested Abraham and stopped him from killing Isaac. You can't say that about the nutters who are in prison because they followed through.
 
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iLogos

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I am curious about the number of people who say no to this question verses the number who are happy for their government to decide to kill people.

I was thinking the same thing. How many that said no, would not kill if they were ordered to in the military?
 
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Faulty

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Before anyone says that God wouldn't ask this of someone in this day and age, I would stipulate that it's a hypothetical question. Also, remember there is a precedent for this in that God asked Abraham to kill Isaac.

That incident between Abraham and Isaac was a prophetic type of the Father offering His own Son as a sacrifice, and was fulfilled at the crucifixion of Jesus.

So no, it's not a precedent.
 
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razeontherock

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I was thinking the same thing. How many that said no, would not kill if they were ordered to in the military?

Well I'll address Ebia's post at the same time. First of all, the military never would have accepted me, at any age. So I don't have to worry about that. Second of all, with the kind of nonsense drill Sergeants are known for, God wouldn't have to tell me to kill somebody. (I'm joking. Sort of)

Clearly I would never be a fit for any sort of military purpose. Human Governments are clearly given the right, and duty, to execute justice, by God, via Scripture. Including the death penalty. Which doesn't mean anyone is ever happy about it.
 
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joey_downunder

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Firstly, it doesn't matter that Abraham did not kill his son. What mattered was Abraham's willingness, which God praised him for.
That was a once-off. Does God command anyone else in the Bible to do the same?
Secondly, you state Moses and the other prophets killed because the people who deserved it were deemed harmful to society. Given that Christians frequently say homosexuality will destroy society, why aren't Christians stoning homosexuals to death (as the Bible commands)?
Read 2 Corinthians 10:3-6 . Still same sins condemned but since death of Christ different times different method used for same spiritual battles.
For that matter, Christians seem to to blindly believe that the prophets in the Bible all knew they were hearing from God. Yet my own experience at church showed me that most Christians get it wrong when they believe God is speaking to them.
Have you only known charismatic christians? There are a lot us who do not believe that God speaks to us outside of the Bible. If they get it wrong it obviously wasn't from God.

God himself is a contradictory character. Compare the NT with the early parts of the OT (Genesis to Joshua) and you'll see two different sides to God that contrast with each other. Jesus is full of mercy and grace, whereas Yahweh is a jealous and angry God.
Have all atheists got a 'how to misuse scripture' handbook now? Now if you were a church attender you should remember that God (Yahweh) led the Israelites out of Egypt. The Book of Jude puts a different slant on it.

Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it,that JESUS, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who would not believe. (Jude 1:5)

If God does actually talk to people, given his seemingly erratic nature, it would be hard to tell just what message is coming across. God likes to play both good cop and bad cop at the same time it seems.
No it seems you have thrown the baby out with the bathwater by rejecting Christianity not just the charismania that many naive christians fall for. DEREK MEETS A FALSE APOSTLE WHILE HE'S OUT - YouTube
 
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