Would You Help To Rebuild The Jewish Temple?

[Big Mouth Nana]

I have never read this scripture before regarding the abomination of desolation:
Mark 13:14 ~But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it aught not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: Well, this more or less says that it shouldn't be there ...right?

This is the one that I have always read: Math 24:15 ~ When ye therefore shall see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.

 

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Covenant Heart,

All I can say is that was beautiful! I believe you got the point across much better than I ever have.

My next request is that you do a comparison with "tribulation" and "God's wrath". I believe the word pictures presented in the Bible are much more clear than individual sriptures. I believe an example of "tribulation" is when Pharoah would not let the Hebrews go. "God's wrath" was when Pharoah's army was destroyed in the Red Sea. Other instances of "God's wrath" is Korah's rebellion, the Flood, Annanias & Sapphira, and when Mystery Babylon is destroyed in Revelation.

What I am leading to here is understand exactly what the "great tribulation" means, whether it is severe tribulation on this earth at the hands of the beast, or is it a time of "God's wrath"?

Thank you for that great article.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[Atkin]

I have never read this scripture before regarding the abomination of desolation:
Mark 13:14 ~But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it aught not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: Well, this more or less says that it shouldn't be there ...right?

This is the one that I have always read: Math 24:15 ~ When ye therefore shall see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.

Yes, Christ was referring to this event which he clearly explained to His disciples...before He spoke about the desolation

Matthew 13:2 , 4 Then Jesus asked him," Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left here upon another; all will be thrown down. Tell us when will this be and what will be the sign that all these things are about to be accomplished

Then later Christ speaks of the abomination at the time when the Temple would be destroyed.

The Temple was later destroyed some years later and the abomination was seen there AND CHRIST never stated that it would be built all over again. He was always speaking about how it would be destroyed once not destroyed twice.

There are no commands for anyone to build any temple, as you can see.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

That Abomination that causes desolation is not the AC taking away animal sacrifice it is the AC and his Followers building WHAT THEY CLAIM is the Holy Jerusalem out of Heaven.

We are the Temple

1Cor:3:16: Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Cor:3:17: If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1Cor:6:19: What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2Cor:6:16: And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Eph:2:21: In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

God does not want another Temple we are his Temple When Jews with the help of Baptist Christians build the Temple it will be the abomination of Desolation.

Mk:13:[14] "But when you see the desolating sacrilege set up WHERE IT OUGHT NOT TO BE (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;

However this is not the building or the Temple that is being Talked about that the sits in showing himself to be Jesus. Don't get me wrong he does sit in this rebuilt Jerusalem and claim to be Jesus.

But he also rises up to heaven and cast down the angels and takes the outer court of the Heavenly Temple that is what is being talked about in 2Thess: 2:

Here is Daniel 9: closely notice where this Temple is.

[10] It grew great, even to the host of heaven; and some of the host of the stars it cast down to the ground, and trampled upon them. [11] It magnified itself, even up to the Prince of the host; and the continual burnt offering was taken away from him, and the place of his sanctuary was overthrown.
[12] And the host was given over to it together with the continual burnt offering through transgression; and truth was cast down to the ground, and the horn acted and prospered.


Notice this is God's heavenly Temple hence all the confusion.

 

[Bevlina]

Hi Everyone!
Forgive the intrusion. I can believe what you say Just The Facts. Twice the Temple has been destroyed. Once by the Babylonians, then, 500 years later by the Romans.
For those who are interested in what is happening about the rebuildning of the Temple, there is a very good bookon the market called "End Of Days" by Gershon Gorenberg, an American who has lived in Jerusalem since 1977.
I believe most Jews oppose the rebuilding of the Temple as religious Jews believe it should be built in the messianic era. Many also fear enormous hostility from Arabs & Muslims. But, they have found the exact site on which the Temple was built. And, there are those who certainly want the Temple rebuilt, structurally.
But, it is obvious that the Body of Christ is the Spiritual Temple.

 

[Atkin]

I believe most Jews oppose the rebuilding of the Temple as religious Jews believe it should be built in the messianic era. it is obvious that the Body of Christ is the Spiritual Temple.

No human being can build any temple BEFORE THE RETURN of Christ.

How can a human being place God in some temple without Christ?

What kind of god would you be worshipping?

HEBREWS 8:5-6

They offer worship in a sanctuary that is a sketch and shadow of the heavenly one; for Moses

, when He was about to erect the tent was warned.." See that you make everything according to

the pattern shown to you on the mountain.

The DEVIL USES BLOOD TO CLEANSE SINS

HEBREWS 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away
sins

HEBREWS 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in
once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling
the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

================

Isaiah 66:1, Thus saith the LORD, The heaven [is] my throne, and the earth
[is] my footstool: where [is] the house that ye build unto me?


WHICH TEMPLE??

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

No human being can build any temple BEFORE THE RETURN of Christ.

How can a human being place God in some temple without Christ?

What kind of god would you be worshipping?

HEBREWS 8:5-6

They offer worship in a sanctuary that is a sketch and shadow of the heavenly one; for Moses

, when He was about to erect the tent was warned.." See that you make everything according to

the pattern shown to you on the mountain.

The DEVIL USES BLOOD TO CLEANSE SINS

HEBREWS 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away
sins

HEBREWS 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in
once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling
the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

================

Isaiah 66:1, Thus saith the LORD, The heaven [is] my throne, and the earth
[is] my footstool: where [is] the house that ye build unto me?


WHICH TEMPLE??

Well, according to the Temple Institute, they have about all they need to do these sacrifices...right down to the red hiefer. The Jews are being very meticulous about what is needed to do it right according to custom.
We as Christians know that this isn't right, since Jesus is our ONLY sacrifice, once and for all. This is such an abomination, just like the scripture says.
It says why this is allowed to happen.. 2nd Thess. 2:8-12 ~ And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish,<because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.>
11 <And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:>
12 <That they all might be ****** who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.>

No human being can build any temple BEFORE THE RETURN of Christ.

Why is that? Who is the man of sin going to be "revealed" to, or who would recognize him as the AC? The church. The lost world isn't going to recognize him, and neither will the Jews. The only one that the Jews are going to recognize is the one whom they pierced, Jesus, and the lost world will recognize Him also....Rev. 1:7 ~ Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which PIERCED him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
This editor won't let me use the word ******in this scripture. Gee, it's in the bible for petes sake.

 

[Covenant Heart]

Thank-you for your kind words, Dad Ernie.

What you ask is an huge matter. Part of our problem is that we are in such a hurry to get to the answers that little time is left to weigh our assumptions regarding questions. It is imperative in such things to have a plan to separate issues (so far as we can) to try and do justice to them all. And yet the idea of using set procedure to facilitate careful study is often lost to us. After all, careful work may not always support deeply valued assumptions.

The churchly tradition seeks to integrate the witness of all Scripture to build a sane, stable theological system. But such work needs patience and we are too busy. So rather than preparing balanced statements that reflect many strands of the Biblical witness on an issue, we prooftext. Here a text, there a text, this text, that text–we prooftext! And it’s sad.

Teachers whom God has blessed don’t lose their value at death. Their anointed, reflective, meditation on Scripture still speaks. But today, the collective wisdom of great teachers from past generations is easily set aside on the weight of a single text. One word may be the nucleus around which an entire doctrine is shaped.

1Th 5:9 is a case in point. God has not appointed us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation. I have heard it said that no other word can modify one’s view of 1Th 5:9! God has spoken! You believe it or you don’t!

And yet I read, "you are bringing even more wrath upon Israel" (Neh 13:18) and "the fire of his wrath burned against Jacob" (Psa 78:21).

Clearly, all of God’s word must be received–including 1Th 5:9. What we need is a sane, theological system that allows us to build models based on all Scripture. Then we can say that we are not appointed to wrath ultimately–because we are appointed to salvation ultimately.

These preliminary, cautionary remarks still do not broach directly the core matter of hermeneutics–our approach to Biblical interpretation. They don’t address the fact that the words "the great tribulation" are for many a technical term that brings much theological baggage into any discussion, or the fact that the one passage in which that phrase in question occurs (Rev 7:14) is interpreted in highly divergent ways.

One way to reflect on tribulation is to put it in context of a theology of suffering as identification with Christ (Co 1:24; Phi 3:10) in baptism and resurrection to life (Rom 6:1-8; Gal 2:19). We too often lose sight of baptism as judgment. Yet baptismal water is the water of division. Jesus entered the Jordan from the Jerusalem side, was baptized there and then left from the opposite bank–being driven by the Spirit into the wilderness. As Jewish culture had it, that was a place of depravation, danger, evil–and tribulation. And now we follow Christ in baptism.

None of this touches the assignment. But it does encourage a sense of reserve. Several texts do refer to "tribulation" or "great tribulation." But as Rev 7:14 says "THE" great tribulation, some demand a new meaning–totally different from the above paragraph. No more "in the world you will have tribulation!" That asks much of one, poor article!

Here is the deal. It is one thing to offer the direct and exact answer that is sought But I am ill inclined to do so–knowing that I would be drawn into a discussion of shiploads of theological baggage over a reading of an highly disputed passage. Moreover, that would miss the real point.

The issue here is wider than what we believe about this particular text or that particular question. The issue is our whole approach to Biblical interpretation. It is whether extensive and far-reaching doctrines may be based on a narrow class of texts set in passages difficult to discern and which admit varied interpretations by scholars who love the Lord.

To return to the first, "prooftexting" is easy and convenient. We cite a text, demand agreement and refuse any modification of our thoughts. I think that is shoddy work. And theology is far too important to be done poorly. So even if my reserve implies weak faith to some or cowardice to others, I am sufficiently secure in my convictions not to swayed by that. And quite frankly, I am far too conservative for it as well.

Will I reply more directly? Maybe someday–on an appropriate thread. For now, thanks again for your gracious words. Blessings, Dad Ernie

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Well, I don't know what this is regarding, ,but I lost my train of thought, lol.

 

[ikester]

how about some thoughts on the point that Jesus overthrew the tables of the money changers in the temple....

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

how about some thoughts on the point that Jesus overthrew the tables of the money changers in the temple....

Well, all I can think of, is he said that my house shall be called a house of prayer, and you have made it a den of thieves. .

 

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Covenant Heart,

Please do not feel obligated to research the subject of "wrath vs. tribulation". I agree any subject should be critically thought out and too many do use a proof-text methods of study. They take a verse and build an entire doctrine out of it. That indeed is really sad.

So if anyone else is up to giving this "worth-while" study some input, I would appreciate it. I learned for myself what these were and confident that no one can dissuade me.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[ikester]

Well, all I can think of, is he said that my house shall be called a house of prayer, and you have made it a den of thieves.

yes......trying to gain some understanding here...that is....Jesus said that my house shall be called a house of prayer...so...did Christ consider the temple a holy place...
knowing that himself would be the sacrafice for the world....so wouldn't the rebuilt temple be the holy place as stated in Daniel..as for myself...I believe it will be rebuilt...

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

yes......trying to gain some understanding here...that is....Jesus said that my house shall be called a house of prayer...so...did Christ consider the temple a holy place...
knowing that himself would be the sacrafice for the world....so wouldn't the rebuilt temple be the holy place as stated in Daniel..as for myself...I believe it will be rebuilt...

Hi ikester. The scripture says, Matt 24:15 ~ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the HOLY PLACE, (whoso readeth, let him understand). If you notice where the comma is after prophet, it is not talking about the abomination of desolation "standing" in the holy place. It is saying to STAND in the holy place. That is why it says, ("whoso readeth, let him understand" )I believe that is for the church to do this. Where is our holy place ikester? I just noticed this a few nights ago. It changes the meaning of this scripture.
This is the one that says, standing where it aught not, Mark 13:14 ~ But when ye shall see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
These two scriptures are referring to the same thing, but different meanings.

 

[Wills]

yes......trying to gain some understanding here...that is....Jesus said that my house shall be called a house of prayer...so...did Christ consider the temple a holy place...
knowing that himself would be the sacrafice for the world....so wouldn't the rebuilt temple be the holy place as stated in Daniel..as for myself...I believe it will be rebuilt...

I guess taking a look at what Christ and the Apostles did regarding their own worship in the temple

would tell us whether it was a holy place or not.

Christ, a Jew never participated in animal sacrifices in the temple, even when it stood there.

The Apostles received full power from Christ and after His ascension, they carried on with the ministry.

Going through Acts and other books, we hardly see any of the Apostles and the likes of Paul

considering the temple a Holy place regarding a place to worship . They focused all efforts

on winning souls and thus met in houses, synagogues etc but never associated with the temple and its priests.

Hebrews teaches a lot about the fact that the temple became A THING OF THE PAST.

The Jewish temple priest is not even mentioned as being a holy leader of any sorts in Judea

and this is not the case for the earlier times even after the babylonian captivity they had

Priests like Ezra, Joshua (in Zech ) .

So if the JEWISH Apostles had little to do with the EXISTING temple , why would people today require a temple to be rebuilt?

 

[ikester]

Hi ikester. The scripture says, Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the HOLY PLACE, (whoso readeth, let him understand). If you notice where the comma is after prophet, it is not talking about the abomination of desolation "standing" in the holy place. It is saying to STAND in the holy place. That is why it says, ("whoso readeth, let him understand" )I believe that is for the church to do this. Where is our holy place ikester? I just noticed this a few nights ago. It changes the meaning of this scripture.

if you read on...it says for them to flee....now....I read as the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place....when they see this...flee.....but back to my point...did Jesus consider the temple the holy place....

 

[ikester]

I guess taking a look at what Christ and the Apostles did regarding their own worship in the temple

would tell us whether it was a holy place or not.

Christ, a Jew never participated in animal sacrifices in the temple, even when it stood there.

The Apostles received full power from Christ and after His ascension, they carried on with the ministry.

Going through Acts and other books, we hardly see any of the Apostles and the likes of Paul

considering the temple a Holy place regarding a place to worship . They focused all efforts

on winning souls and thus met in houses, synagogues etc but never associated with the temple and its priests.

Hebrews teaches a lot about the fact that the temple became A THING OF THE PAST.

The Jewish temple priest is not even mentioned as being a holy leader of any sorts in Judea

and this is not the case for the earlier times even after the babylonian captivity they had

Priests like Ezra, Joshua (in Zech ) .

So if the JEWISH Apostles had little to do with the EXISTING temple , why would people today require a temple to be rebuilt?

I agree...we need not the temple to be rebuilt...but some unbelieving jews do want it rebuilt...earlier in this thread there was debate as to it being the holy place...and why would it be called the holy place...since God does accept any sacrafice...Jesus shed his blood for us....

 

[Trish1947]

I agree...we need not the temple to be rebuilt...but some unbelieving jews do want it rebuilt...earlier in this thread there was debate as to it being the holy place...and why would it be called the holy place...since God does accept any sacrafice...Jesus shed his blood for us....

So if the JEWISH Apostles had little to do with the EXISTING temple , why would people today require a temple to be rebuilt?

Jesus said to the Jews, Tear this Temple down, and I will raise it up the third day. He was the Temple of God. They thought he was talking about the building. Even then he said there will not be one stone left on top of another regarding the building, The scripture says that we are the Temple of God, God was in Jesus, Jesus in us, by the Holy Spirit, a" building tightly framed together, whos temple ye are." No there does not need to be a temple built, and no sacrifices, the Holy One has already been offered for Jew and Gentile. Did Jesus think the building was Holy? I dont think so. It should have been but was just a building wholly given over to a den of thieves.

 

[parousia70]

if you read on...it says for them to flee....now....I read as the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place....when they see this...flee.....but back to my point...did Jesus consider the temple the holy place....

How many different events did Jesus exhort His followers to "Flee Judea to the mountains" when they saw them come to pass?

 

[Atkin]

How many different events did Jesus exhort His followers to "Flee Judea to the mountains" when they saw them come to pass?

Why was Jesus not present at the Temple during animal sacrifices?

Why did Jesus avoid animal sacrifices?