Would You Help To Rebuild The Jewish Temple?

Would You Help Support The Rebuilding Of The Jewish Temple?

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Uzziah

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How do you figure that?
Lets take your logic to it's logical conclusion:

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Was Christ an actual Lamb or was He a human?

If you say Him as a Lamb is a figure of speech, you are saying that John 1:29 is wrong.

Revelation 5:5
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Whas Christ an actual Lion, or a Human?

If you say Him as a Lion is a figure of speech, you are saying Revelation 5:5 is wrong.

Isaiah 11:1
And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

Is Christ an actual Branch or a Human?

If you say Him as a Branch is a figure of speech, you are saying Isaiah 11:1 is wrong.

i'm not saying anything is wrong, so the above statement is a straw man.

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


First, 1 kings 3:12 is nothing like the picture of the Lamb of God, so your argument is null and void right there. Also I believe Christ is the Lamb of God, no problems with that at all. John was right Christ is the Lamb of God.

The equivalent to 1 kings 3:12 in John 1:29 is "which taketh away the sin of the world"

Is that a figure of speech or is it a fact? by your standards it's just a figure of speech.

1 kings 3:12 makes this statement concerning Solomon....

1Ki 3:12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.

"so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee"

I'll ask you again.....Is the above verse correct or not?
 
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parousia70

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Uzziah said:
i'm not saying anything is wrong, so the above statement is a straw man.
It's your own rules regarding figures of speech. I'm just testing whether or not you apply them consistantly. It is clear you do not, rather you only apply them when it suits your interpratation.

John 1:29
Also I believe Christ is the Lamb of God, no problems with that at all. John was right Christ is the Lamb of God.
You believe Christ is An actual Lamb with 4 cloven feet and a Tail? or is "lamb of God" a figure of speech denoting Christ's position and role, and not His physical structure?

The equivalent to 1 kings 3:12 in John 1:29 is "which taketh away the sin of the world"

Is that a figure of speech or is it a fact? by your standards it's just a figure of speech.
How so?


1 kings 3:12 makes this statement concerning Solomon....

1Ki 3:12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.

"so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee"

I'll ask you again.....Is the above verse correct or not?
Again, As I have shown and you have failed to refute, "ever was or ever shall be", and it's derivitives such as we see above, are Hebraic Idiom for "Very Great" or "Very much" and the like, and do not denote any sort of "Absolute" nature.

What basis do you have to suggest that an Idiom is equivalant to a lie anyway?
Clearly you don't apply this rule in any sort of consistant manner, so where does the Bible teach you which idioms are lies and which are true?
 
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Uzziah

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It's your own rules regarding figures of speech. I'm just testing whether or not you apply them consistantly. It is clear you do not, rather you only apply them when it suits your interpratation

Well when you say that a figure like the Lamb of God is the same as a definitive statement like "ever was or ever shall be" is the same sort of thing it just shows how confused your theology is.

You believe Christ is An actual Lamb with 4 cloven feet and a Tail? or is "lamb of God" a figure of speech denoting Christ's position and role, and not His physical structure?

Silly argument which has nothing to do with the point. How old are you?

Uzziah said:
The equivalent to 1 kings 3:12 in John 1:29 is "which taketh away the sin of the world"

Is that a figure of speech or is it a fact? by your standards it's just a figure of speech.

parousia70 said:

"That taketh away the sin of the world" is a statement in the vien of "ever was or ever shall be". Nowhere is it stated that Solomon was "the Lamb of God" or "the lion of the tribe of Judea". Then you would have an argument as far as John 1:29 is concerned.

Again, As I have shown and you have failed to refute, "ever was or ever shall be", and it's derivitives such as we see above, are Hebraic Idiom for "Very Great" or "Very much" and the like, and do not denote any sort of "Absolute" nature.

In stating the above you admit the verse does not include Christ, As you said "Very Great" or "Very much" and the like, and do not denote any sort of "Absolute" nature"

Clearly you don't apply this rule in any sort of consistant manner, so where does the Bible teach you which idioms are lies and which are true?

None of them are lies, thats the whole point.
 
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Covenant Heart

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Earlier, I said that the watershed issue in Matt 24 is where history ends and the future begins. Where is the cut-off? The interpreter’s first task is to determine the limits of the text. Scripture often offers clues. Just knowing that chapter divisions are not inspired often helps us. Much is made of the celebrated time text, "this generation will not pass from the scene before all these things occur" (Ma 24:34). Few know that an equivalent expression occurs in Matt 23:36, "all these things will come upon this very generation." For all the attention Matt 24:34 gets in books, sermons, films and prophecy conferences, it seems odd that an equivalent expression in the same passage is totally overlooked! And why? This would mean that the passage is to be read as a single unit!

The formula, "all these things will come on this generation" (Matt 23:36 cf. 24:34) encloses this section as one, literary unit. The content and imagery is also strikingly similar. Matt 23 tells the sending of the messengers, the persecution and dispersion of the righteous (vs. 34), God’s desire to gather Israel as a hen gathers her chicks (vs. 37), and the temple desolation (vs. 38). Matt 24 tells of the flight of the faithful and the desolation of the temple. God’s messengers are sent to gather the elect. There is the vulture gathering imagery and desolation of the temple. This commonality in literary form, material content and in imagery is more than coincidental. This passage is one, single unit.

In other places, the disciples asked Jesus to explain events or teaching to them privately (Matt 13:10; 17:19; Mk 7:17; 9:28; 10:10; Lk 8:9). Like their questions, his explanations refer to preceding narrative. In Matt 13:36, the disciples go and ask Jesus to explain the parable of the weeds in the field. What follows explains what preceded. So to, the disciples’ private questions in Matt 24:3–and the reply (Matt 24:4ff) refer to the Matt 23 discussion on this theme. This is one, literary unit.

But in Mat 23:36, the generation formula refers unquestionably to that day. Jesus’ scathing attack made the Scribes and Pharisees guilty of all the righteous blood shed from Abel (Adam’s son) to Zechariah, whom they slew in the Temple (desecrating it). The very generation that slew Zechariah will persecute and disperse the faithful (Act 8?), and see the desolation of the temple (vs. 36. cf. 38). How can the same words in the same passage (Matt 24:34) refer to a generation 2000+ years later?

Note the verses immediately preceding the parable of the fig tree. Matt 24:30 is often taken to refer to the parousia (the appearance of the Son of Man). "Parousia" is used in Matt 24:3, 27, 37 and 39. But in Matt 24:30, "appearing" translates not "parousia" but "erchomai," a very common word that is rendered "coming" AND "going." "Erchomai" and "parousia" can both be rendered "appearing," so the translation is not incorrect. But Matt 24:30 says not "parousia" but "erchomai." So whether it is wise or not to render Matt 24:30, "they will see the Son of Man GOING on the clouds with power and great glory," "erchomai" will bear that meaning. And as it stands, that would describe faithfully Jesus’ ascension, a glorious day in salvation history. The import of this point becomes apparent is vs. 31 where he (Jesus) sends his angels to gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth.

"Apostello" (he will send–Matt 24:31; Lu 13:27) can also be translated "commission." "Angelos" (angels) can also be rendered "messengers." Recall those "sent" in Matt 23:34; there, Jesus desires to gather Israel–but laments that instead of gathering under God’s sheltering hand, this city slays his messengers–23:37)! It would be the same again! His sent messengers will be flogged, killed and driven from city to city (Matt 23:34). But this time, their sins fill to overflowing the cup of judgment accumulated from all the centuries of bloodshed (filling the measure–Matt 23:32). This is coming on that very generation (Matt 23:35-36). In a word, your temple is doomed to desolation (Matt 23:35,38).

It is interesting that the "commissioning" of prophetic messengers in Matt 23:34 stands so close to the Matt 23:36 time text, whereas the Matt 24:31 commissioning stands so close to the Matt 24:34 time text. The time formula brackets this passage (Matt 23:36 cf. Matt 24:34) as one unit. Could Matt 23:34 and 24:31 refer to the same thing? Could the "messengers" be those "commissioned" to take the gospel to the four corners of the earth and gather God’s elect, the church?

Matt 24:29 IS very similar to Act 2:19f. If Act 2:19-20 can refer to that generation, so can Matt 24:29. And if Matt 24:30 is Jesus’ ascension, Matt 24:31 would indicate a commissioning of messengers (believers) to gather the elect from the four corners the earth with the gospel. He ascended and poured out his Spirit to equip his church for that. Peter said on Pentecost that God exalted Jesus to his right hand (ascension)–resulting in what was seen and heard (Acts 2:33) leading to the gospel proclamation (vs. 36-40). Jesus commissioned us for this. As he said, the messengers of the gospel were persecuted and driven from town to town (Acts 8:1). God’s judgment was poured out and the temple was left desolate–all in that generation as Jesus said (Matt 23:36; 24:34).

A very clear change begins with Matt 24:36. Just as Matt 24 should be moved back to include the end of Matt 23, Matt 25 should move up to include the last of Matt 24. Just as the "generation" formula (23:36; 24:34) indicates one unit, a new point in Matthew’s outline is indicated by these three parables–the faithful and unfaithful slave (Matt 24), the ten bridesmaids (Mat 25:1) and the talents (Mat 25:14). These function as one unit. Jesus turns from "houtos" (what is just before us–THIS generation) and speaks of "ekeinos" (what is far removed–THAT day). "This generation" contrasts with the "long time" (Matt 24:48; Matt 25:5, Matt 25:19). Jesus speaks not of signs but of their absence. Flight strategy (Matt 24: 16 ff.) is gone; the new strategy is faithful, watchful vigilance. In this "long time" (now 2,000 years), we must be faithful (Matt 24:45), wise (Matt 25:2) and serving (Matt 25:14). In each case, laxity and unpreparedness means judgment when Jesus returns again.

As I see it, these parables refer not to past events but to the revelation of Jesus Christ, the Second Coming when the King come to raise the dead and to judge the earth. At a time of God’s appointment (which no one knows), when the number of the elect full, our Lord Jesus Christ will come from heaven, corporally and visibly, as He ascended, with great glory and majesty to declare Himself Judge of the living and the dead, burning this old world with fire and flame to cleanse it (Belgic Confession, Article 37). Yes, he is coming. He will return just as his disciples saw him leave. He will remove all that is offensive and his kingdom will be displayed in all its glory. To him be the praise!

As I see it, the key Matt 24 issue is where we make the past/future cut-off. But however we read it, we are left to harmonizing the details of Matt 24 to our decision. That’s how discussion of Matt 24 proceeds. This doesn’t begin to address the many details of Matt 24. But it does offer a way to anchor some of the key details in history. If this ranting can help to clarify that strategic issue, well and good. Blessings!

Covenant Heart
 
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paul walker

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Hope you don't mind me jumping in here. Zech. 6:12,13, says that the BRANCH will be the one who builds the temple. We know that the branch refers to Jesus, so I believe that it will be Jesus that will build the next temple. Now, what do you think about this? When Martin Luther came to the knowledge of the truth, [ meaning that he read the holy word himself ]
He claimed that the office of the pope was the man of sin, or antichrist. I would have to say that the building that the pope resides in, is not the church. Would you call it "a" temple? and, since the pope claims that he is God on the earth, and can forgive sins, would you call this a "revealing" by
Martin Luther?
And, I don't see a temple being buildt by the Jews. Judas thought that he could rush God by turning Jesus over to the priest, but it didn't work. Neither will Benny Hinn make a difference. God has his own timetable.
In His service,
Paul
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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paul walker said:
Hope you don't mind me jumping in here. Zech. 6:12,13, says that the BRANCH will be the one who builds the temple. We know that the branch refers to Jesus, so I believe that it will be Jesus that will build the next temple. Now, what do you think about this? When Martin Luther came to the knowledge of the truth, [ meaning that he read the holy word himself ]
He claimed that the office of the pope was the man of sin, or antichrist. I would have to say that the building that the pope resides in, is not the church. Would you call it "a" temple? and, since the pope claims that he is God on the earth, and can forgive sins, would you call this a "revealing" by
Martin Luther?
And, I don't see a temple being buildt by the Jews. Judas thought that he could rush God by turning Jesus over to the priest, but it didn't work. Neither will Benny Hinn make a difference. God has his own timetable.
In His service,
Paul
We know that the branch refers to Jesus, so I believe that it will be Jesus that will build the next temple. Now, what do you think about this?
I think that you are wrong, lol. The Jews will rebuild the temple. The Pope might be "A" man of sin, but not "THEE" man of sin.

This was posted in the recent archives of Jack Van Impes site. Most prophecy teachers know what is going on in Israel right now regarding the temple. I'm following it myself.





QUESTION: Have you heard of Israel making parts of the temple so that it can be assembled and rebuilt the same way as it was the first time, as mentioned in I Kings 6:7? Is this is true, the temple could be assembled in a short amount of time, right?

Tom & Helen Sinclair East Sparta, OH



RVI: Lets take a look at what is happening in Israel right now. We found this reported in Israel Today "Priests are to train on temple model between Jerusalem and Jericho, and this is home to a model that has been built. It covers about 269,000 square feet and it will function as a training site to prepare priests for services in the 3rd temple to be built in Jerusalem". Whoa, Jack. This is pretty exciting.





JVI: I am so excited to share this information! It is built! It is the replica of what is coming soon. And they've built it so they can prepare and practice all of their sacrifices. They are pulling in all that are Levites. You cannot be a priest lest your name is Cohen or something similar to it because they were of the tribe of Levi that did the temple services. They're doing the temple services.



They're bringing in the instruments. They're talking about preparing the red heifer. They've got everything they need. All they have to do is build the same temple on the Dome of the Rock area and begin their worship and that happens, of course, when the European union gives them that permission in Daniel 9:27, to build a temple and have their own sacrifices and oblations and after 42 months, he stops it. The temple is desecrated and then our Lord Jesus comes back and He sits in the temple for the next 1,000 years in Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48. But think of it. The replica of the genuine temple is already made, 269,000 square feet. And they're preparing every service for the big thing that will come soon in Jerusalem. Jesus is coming.
I don't always agree with Jack Van Impe on everything, but this is true what is going on over in Israel now. They do have the replica built of the temple that they will build.
 
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Durelen

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Ummm… it’s not Satins temple, it’s Gods temple. Though Satin is going to defile the temple, it is holy to God before the Antichrist defiles it. How can the antichrist defile the holy of holies if it is not truly sanctified for God in the first place? It belongs to God and if you feel God leading you to donate then you surly should. There are many ways to bless Israel like donating for the planting of trees or donating money for airplane tickets to Jews so they can return to their land.


And before I get called all sorts of names and insuts as commonly happens in this forum, I have nothing to do with B.Hinn and I seldom watch Van Impes shows. I have nothing to do with TBN but I do hold to the pretrib view as I have done for fifteen years or so. So people get ready, Jesus is comin’, soon we’ll be going home.
 
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parousia70

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Durelen said:
Ummm… it’s not Satins temple, it’s Gods temple. Though Satin is going to defile the temple, it is holy to God before the Antichrist defiles it.
Could you explain how rejecting Christ's blood sacrifice shed on the cross, in favor of shedding the blood of bulls and goats would be "Holy to God" today?

Where exactly does the Bible teach you this?
 
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parousia70

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Uzziah said:
Well when you say that a figure like the Lamb of God is the same as a definitive statement like "ever was or ever shall be" is the same sort of thing it just shows how confused your theology is.
On the contrary, it demonstrates my consistancy, and exposes your inconsistancy.



Silly argument which has nothing to do with the point. How old are you?
It is the very point, no matter how hard you try to avoid it. and I'm 37.

Christ as a Lamb is a metaphore denoting his position, not his physical appearance. Disagree if you must, but the "lamb" is not to be taken literally, as a small woollen animal, but metaphorically denoting Christ's position.


"That taketh away the sin of the world" is a statement in the vien of "ever was or ever shall be".
Demonstrate how it is "in the same vein". so far it is only your contention.

In stating the above you admit the verse does not include Christ, As you said "Very Great" or "Very much" and the like, and do not denote any sort of "Absolute" nature"


Jesus Christ compares himslef to Solomon, which you claim is unfair, yet He makes this HUMAN comparison regardless of, and against your protest.

This proves that "ever was nor ever shall be" is idiom, for Christ is indeed a human king of Israel who scripture testifies, grew in his humanity to be wiser than Solomon.

None of them are lies, thats the whole point.
Correct. The Idiom Ever was nor ever shall be meaning very great, is no lie.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Durelen said:
Ummm… it’s not Satins temple, it’s Gods temple. Though Satin is going to defile the temple, it is holy to God before the Antichrist defiles it. How can the antichrist defile the holy of holies if it is not truly sanctified for God in the first place? It belongs to God and if you feel God leading you to donate then you surly should. There are many ways to bless Israel like donating for the planting of trees or donating money for airplane tickets to Jews so they can return to their land.


And before I get called all sorts of names and insuts as commonly happens in this forum, I have nothing to do with B.Hinn and I seldom watch Van Impes shows. I have nothing to do with TBN but I do hold to the pretrib view as I have done for fifteen years or so. So people get ready, Jesus is comin’, soon we’ll be going home.
And before I get called all sorts of names and insuts as commonly happens in this forum, I have nothing to do with B.Hinn and I seldom watch Van Impes shows. I have nothing to do with TBN but I do hold to the pretrib view as I have done for fifteen years or so. So people get ready, Jesus is comin’, soon we’ll be going home.
How do you figure that it is Gods temple?? The Jews think that they are going to be building it for the Messiah, but that doesn't make it Gods temple. The only temple that God has is us. We ARE the temple. I won't hold my breath for God to put on my heart to donate to it. I would gladly help Israel in any other way....but not that!!


Evidently you must think all of TBN is bad, since you do not watch it at all? Is there a reason that you don't watch it? Is it Jan Crouches eyelashes and pink or blue hair, the elaborate settings, rofl? I know that alot of people don't watch it because of her. To bad that people generally judge the outside of a person, instead of what is in their hearts, and the gold spray paint on those chairs.
 
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Durelen

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heh so if I don't watch TBN I'm shallow? Typical...

How can there be an abomination of desolation if it is not truly holy in the first place?
What is the temple? Only a place for sacrifices? I think you are missing part of the main reason for the temples literal existence.

As for the Church, the Church will not be here. The Church and the Holy Spirit will be ruptured before this event takes place. Like it or not, God’s nation, The Jews, will build their temple to God. Without the understanding of this then yes I see why you are so bewildered in literal translations. Good luck to you and may God bless you in Christ.
 
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good4u

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Absolutely not! As a Chrisitian, it is not my place to help build any way. The Jewish nation as a whole is spiritually blind and consequently, why would I want to enable their blindness? Absolutely not. Why even ask such a question?
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Durelen said:
heh so if I don't watch TBN I'm shallow? Typical...


How can there be an abomination of desolation if it is not truly holy in the first place?
What is the temple? Only a place for sacrifices? I think you are missing part of the main reason for the temples literal existence.

As for the Church, the Church will not be here. The Church and the Holy Spirit will be ruptured before this event takes place. Like it or not, God’s nation, The Jews, will build their temple to God. Without the understanding of this then yes I see why you are so bewildered in literal translations. Good luck to you and may God bless you in Christ.
heh so if I don't watch TBN I'm shallow? Typical...
Shallow? Your word, not mine. I was just curious if your reasonings followed suit with alot of other peoples. I mainly watch the music programs myself.
As for the Church, the Church will not be here.
How do you figure that? It talks about the coming of The Son Of Man AFTER the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:27 and in Matthew 24:30. The abomination of desolation is in Matthew 24:15.
The Church and the Holy Spirit will be ruptured before this event takes place.
RUPTURED???? Gee, I hope not, otherwise, I'm not going, rofl. Might want to fix that mispell there, but I got a good ho-ho out of it.
 
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parousia70

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Durelen said:
How can there be an abomination of desolation if it is not truly holy in the first place?
Good question!

What is the temple? Only a place for sacrifices? I think you are missing part of the main reason for the temples literal existence.
Well, biblically speaking, animal sacrifices were indeed the MAIN REASON for the temple's existance. The very function of the temple revolved around animal sacrifice. Without animal sacrifices, the temple was useless.

Perhaps you could share your understanding of the "main reason" for th temples existance that you belive we are overlooking.

Like it or not, God’s nation, The Jews, will build their temple to God.
Can you explain how or why God will honor this form of Christ rejection that you are describing??
 
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paul walker

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The next temple that will be buildt, will be by Jesus himself, Zech 6:12,13.
There are not any scriptures that say there will be a temple in Jerusalem before the end. The idea that there will be one buildt, is taken from Daniel 9:
27, but this scripture is referring to Jesus. When he died as our sacrifice for
sin, he caused the animal sacrifices to cease being accepted to God. He did this in the middle of the 70 th week. It is an abomination to take something that applies to our savior, and try to say it pertains to the man of sin.

In His service,
Paul
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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paul walker said:
The next temple that will be buildt, will be by Jesus himself, Zech 6:12,13.
There are not any scriptures that say there will be a temple in Jerusalem before the end. The idea that there will be one buildt, is taken from Daniel 9:
27, but this scripture is referring to Jesus. When he died as our sacrifice for
sin, he caused the animal sacrifices to cease being accepted to God. He did this in the middle of the 70 th week. It is an abomination to take something that applies to our savior, and try to say it pertains to the man of sin.

In His service,
Paul
It is an abomination to take something that applies to our savior, and try to say it pertains to the man of sin.
Exactly!! That is why they are going to do it. You have to remember that the majority of the Jews are blinded right now. The bible even states that the sacrifices will be stopped, so if they are stopped, they had to be started. The Jews won't sacrifice in anything but a temple, so it has to be rebuilt. We as Christians know that Jesus is our sacrifice, the blinded Jews do not. Also, the "man of sin" has to have a temple to proclaim that he is god in, as stated by scripture.
 
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Covenant Heart

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Daily temple routine involved many things. The evangelists could have itemized them and told us, "all of these things will stop. But wouldn’t it be much easier to say that the temple would be laid waste (as it was in 70AD)? That seems to include the sacrificial system. Wasn’t that the point in having a temple?

If God stopped accepting animal sacrifices, wouldn’t that alone require the abolition of said sacrifices among God’s people? Remember–a "sacrifice" was not the killing of an animal. A sacrifice was an act of faith-worship which happened to involve the killing of an animal. Certainly, people can still kill animals. I’ve done it myself. But I would never call that a sacrifice as that would deny the efficacy of Christ’s work on the cross. I confess with the Belgic Confession, Art 25 that "the ceremonies and symbols of the law ceased at the coming of Christ. ALL the shadows are accomplished; so that the use of them must be abolished among Christians." Blessings!

Covenant Heart
 
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Symes

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As for the Church, the Church will not be here. The Church and the Holy Spirit will be ruptured before this event takes place. Like it or not, God’s nation, The Jews, will build their temple to God.
Don't be deceived. God does not have a nation today, but a people that goes beyond national borders.

Read Galations 3:28,29
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

If anyone believes in Christ they then belong to the seed of Abraham. That means every nation on this earth not just literal Jews.

 
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