Would you destroy the Universe, if that's what God asked of you?

[RDKirk]

Given that the reader of the text already knows that Isaac is the son of promise that God gave Abraham, because the whole point of Genesis is a prologue to the Exodus and the reader (or hearer) was a devout Israelite with an understanding of God's covenant promises already fulfilled, the whole point of the story is for teaching.

I believe on of the classical Jewish interpretations (I might be wrong or remembering incorrectly) is that the story is about God's rejection of human sacrifice; the point is therefore not to see if Abraham will do it or not, but in order to really emphasize God's non-acceptance of human sacrifices.

A Christian reading of the text has typically been read typologically, God providing in Isaac's stead as pointing to the event of the Cross.

But I suppose to answer the question in the OP, no I wouldn't destroy the universe. Just as I wouldn't kill or harm another individual. And more than likely if I start hearing voices telling me to do such things I would seek professional, medical help.

-CryptoLutheran

Except that the writer of Hebrews specifically says that Abraham expected God to bring Isaac back to life in order to make good on His promise. IOW, Abraham never believed he was making a true sacrifice...God would give Isaac back to him to make good on His promise.

 

[RDKirk]

Just interested to see what people's responses are to this.

Technically, there is a neutral response to this, but I want to see what people say before I reveal what it is.

I think I would say "I will" but then I would not do it for an enormous amount of time.

But you may have your own ideas...

The basic thrust of this question goes to the Christian deontological philosophy (specifically, "Command Theology."

God is the author of morality. What God does is by definition good because God has done it; what God ordains is by definition good because God has ordained it.

There is no moral standard uncreated by God that God is obligated to adhere to; if that were the case, that moral standard would be God's god.

So God is ultimately the moral standard.

Thus, the question is: Can God command a person to do evil if everything God commands is good?

I determined long ago that I was an unabashed deontologist and that God was my moral authority. I do recognize, though, that the two primary difficulties of this philosophy (and all philosophies have their difficulties) is making sure that I am truly hearing from God and accurately interpreting His commands.

If given a command by God--and there was no question that it was from God and that I had heard it correctly--I would obey even what seemed to be a command to "destroy the universe." I would not double-think the commands based on "what seems right in my own mind."

 

[Gxg (G²)]

What if what seemed to be "evil" was really good from God's perspective? Destroying the UNiverse when God can re-create it again isn't really something to consider a loss

 

[RDKirk]

What if what seemed to be "evil" was really good from God's perspective? Destroying the UNiverse when God can re-create it again isn't really something to consider a loss

And that's my point about Abraham. Hebrews makes it clear that Abraham figured he would not lose Isaac by obeying God.

 

[durangodawood]

Except that the writer of Hebrews specifically says that Abraham expected God to bring Isaac back to life in order to make good on His promise. IOW, Abraham never believed he was making a true sacrifice...God would give Isaac back to him to make good on His promise.

Then the test of faith was no test at all..... and so, whats the point?

Also, that perspective is NOT in the Abraham/Isaac story. You'd think it would be, given that it makes ALL the difference.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Except that the writer of Hebrews specifically says that Abraham expected God to bring Isaac back to life in order to make good on His promise. IOW, Abraham never believed he was making a true sacrifice...God would give Isaac back to him to make good on His promise.

And I don't contest that. I was simply trying to provide ways in which the text has been approached.

That while we today might consider the story shocking--God commanding Abraham to slaughter his child--the thrust of the text isn't about a capricious deity whimsically demanding the slaughter of a child; but that there is a lesson to be learned from the text. That the text is given as a teaching and instruction, it's Torah; from this we can learn about the reality that God does not desire human sacrifice, and thus Israel's God is markedly different from gods such as Molech who demand the sacrifice of children. Indeed it may even be that this story exists precisely as a ridicule or counter of such practices of the peoples around Israel.

As here we have a story about the chief Patriarch of Israel, Abraham himself, and the most important child of Abraham (Isaac) through whom would come the entire nation (through Jacob). God is not in the business of child sacrifices, God will not require this of anyone, not even as it turns out of Abraham.

I think this is the sort of reading that makes sense historically and contextually, and it doesn't invalidate the view of the author of Hebrews, as it does not need be either/or, but can be both/and.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[quatona]

What if what seemed to be "evil" was really good from God's perspective?[/quote]
Let God work from his perspective, I will act from mine. It doesn´t make any sense whatsoever for God to ask me to do that.

Destroying the UNiverse when God can re-create it again isn't really something to consider a loss

Strange argument you´ve got there.
Then it isn´t a loss when I destroy stuff, people, the universe against his will, either. God can easily recreate them, after all.

 

[RDKirk]

Then the test of faith was no test at all..... and so, whats the point?

Also, that perspective is NOT in the Abraham/Isaac story. You'd think it would be, given that it makes ALL the difference.

That is in the New Testament. There is the entire bible to be read...for Christians the NT sheds more substantial light on a lot of the OT.

 

[RDKirk]

As here we have a story about the chief Patriarch of Israel, Abraham himself, and the most important child of Abraham (Isaac) through whom would come the entire nation (through Jacob). God is not in the business of child sacrifices, God will not require this of anyone, not even as it turns out of Abraham.

Child sacrifice appears to have been an issue of very strong compulsion in the surrounding cultures.

The Law that specifies first that God could demand the sacrifice of the first born, but instead specifies the firstborn to be redeemed by a payment in silver. In other words, it's not just "Don't do this" but "Do this, not that."

I see this as an intentional "firebreak" to prevent someone from deciding "The Law is silent on child sacrifice...so let's do it to be sure." Therefore, the Law is not silent and militates against it in multiple manners.

 

[RDKirk]

What if what seemed to be "evil" was really good from God's perspective?[/quote]
Let God work from his perspective, I will act from mine. It doesn´t make any sense whatsoever for God to ask me to do that.
Strange argument you´ve got there.
Then it isn´t a loss when I destroy stuff, people, the universe against his will, either. God can easily recreate them, after all.

God promises us an eternal universe, however. Therefore, if He were to tell us to destroy this one, we should have an expectation that He will honor that previous promise and recreate a new and better one.

This is not different from Abraham's faith that God would honor His promise of a nation specifically from Isaac.

If I destroy anything by my own will, it is not based on faith in any previous promise from God.

 

[quatona]

God promises us an eternal universe, however. Therefore, if He were to tell us to destroy this one, we should have an expectation that He will honor that previous promise and recreate a new and better one.

It´s funny how God takes everything happening in this universe very seriously, and expects us to take it seriously, (to the point of being obsessed with the question where people may or may not put their naughty bits etc. etc.), how he gives us custody over it (as though it were of any importance), and in the next step doesn´t care at all about it.

If I destroy anything by my own will, it is not based on faith in any previous promise from God.

So? I responded to "the destruction of this universe isn´t a problem from God´s perspective - he can re-create it in a hardbeat" (paraphrased).
Whether the destruction is based on faith or not doesn´t make a difference in this argument.

 

[RDKirk]

It´s funny how God takes everything happening in this universe very seriously, and expects us to take it seriously, (to the point of being obsessed with the question where people may or may not put their naughty bits etc. etc.), how he gives us custody over it (as though it were of any importance), and in the next step doesn´t care at all about it.

The OP is a hypothetical question.

 

[DennisTate]

Just interested to see what people's responses are to this.

Technically, there is a neutral response to this, but I want to see what people say before I reveal what it is.

I think I would say "I will" but then I would not do it for an enormous amount of time.

But you may have your own ideas...

A related question would be…….. when the Word/Logos asked Abraham to offer up Isaac….. would it have been OK for Abraham to offer himself in place of Isaac?!

There is a fascinating amount of background material to the Abraham/Isaac/ Ishmael drama in The Book of Jasher.

I recommend starting at chapter 21….


Book of Jasher

And when Isaac was five years old he was sitting with Ishmael at the door of the tent.
And Ishmael came to Isaac and seated himself opposite to him, and he took the bow and drew it and put the arrow in it, and intended to slay Isaac.
And Sarah saw the act which Ishmael desired to do to her son Isaac, and it grieved her exceedingly on account of her son, and she sent for Abraham, and said to him, Cast out this bondwoman and her son, for her son shall not be heir with my son, for thus did he seek to do unto him this day.
And Abraham hearkened to the voice of Sarah, and he rose up early in the morning, and he took twelve loaves and a bottle of water which he gave to Hagar, and sent her away with her son, and Hagar went with her son to the wilderness, and they dwelt in the wilderness of Paran with the inhabitants of the wilderness, and Ishmael was an archer, and he dwelt in the wilderness a long time.

…..

 

[AustinMiles89]

1) Who are any of us, to judge God? or a command he gives?? He is the only perfect being. and his Character is beyond question or reproach. to address Him lesser is to promote ourselves above him, the very first sin ever committed, and Satan's calling card.

2) Gods people hear his voice, and he knows them, and they listen. If you truly know The Lord, you have heard his voice. anyone who hasn't, will never understand that or give it credence. at best they may consent to it as a possibility.

3) There is a reason why God gave us The Word. If someone hears from The Lord but is told to do something that contradicts The Word, then that person should be wise enough to inquire of The Lord on the matter, because The Word, tells him otherwise. Thus no one has ever truly laid to waste peoples or civilizations by the true and genuine order of God, unless they were occupying Gods land promised to Israel, or attempting to destroy Israel.

4) Abraham and Isaac is a special case. it is not the sort of command he gives to just anyone, nor is there need of such a command today. it is true if one pays attention to the scripture, that Abraham assumed he would be coming back down the mountain with his son, even as he walked up it to sacrifice him. Abraham knew God would keep his word, and that it was not his place to judge God or His commands.
the reason God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac is many fold, but at its most obvious, it was a foreshadowing of events to come. For God would sacrifice His own son, in obedience to His own promises to mankind. Interestingly enough, if you follow the directions The Word gives us as to the location Abraham took his son, it appears to have literally been at what we would later call Golgotha, or Calvary, if you will.
Abraham and Isaac were used by God to foreshadow Gods plan of redemption. which happens over and over in the Old Testament.

 

[Messy]

Just interested to see what people's responses are to this.

Technically, there is a neutral response to this, but I want to see what people say before I reveal what it is.

I think I would say "I will" but then I would not do it for an enormous amount of time.

But you may have your own ideas...

I'd say no and rebuke the devil LOL since God doesn't go against His Word and never would ask this and if he really did he wasn't the God I know anyway, what's the use to follow someone who asks that?