Would Judas have been lost, if he hadn't been lost...?

mozo41 · Jan 30, 2018

PeaceJoyLove said:
It has to do with where we are 'seeing'/perceiving from what the truth becomes to us...Why do you think Jesus said one thing to Peter and another to Judas? Jesus even called Judas "friend", knowing full well what Judas had already done...not a word of condemnation came from His mouth...

It has everything to do with perception...and losing our soul to find it IN HIM...Jesus knowing "the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak"...

Some scripture to consider...

Matthew 16:22 Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. “Far be it from You, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to You!” 23 But Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men." 24 Then Jesus told His disciples, "If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done. 28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

John 13:27 After Judas took the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to Judas, "What you are about to do, do quickly."

Matthew 26:49 Going directly to Jesus, he said, “Greetings, Rabbi,” and kissed Him. 50 "Friend," Jesus replied, "do what you came for." Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus, and arrested Him. 51 At this, one of Jesus’ companions drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him. "For all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

Matthew 26:33 Peter said to Him, "Even if all fall away on account of You, I never will."

Matthew 26:41 "Watch and pray so that you will not enter into temptation. For the spirit is willing, but the body is weak."

Matthew 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

If Jesus did not condemn Judas...who are you/we to do it? It has to do with a sword...and dying by it to LIVE...or a losing one's soul/life to find it (again)

I have not said one word in defense of Judas, though you heard it...

After Judas took the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to Judas, "What you are about to do, do quickly."

Be agreeing quickly with your accuser while you are on the way with him, lest ever the accuser deliver you to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you will be cast into prison.

not pondered this before but perhaps it was for Christs sake Judas acted quickly

Neogaia777 · Jan 30, 2018

brinny said:
Jesus Christ did NOT love evil nor the originator of it, my friend.

He didn't die FOR evil. He died to defeat and obliterate it.

The tragedy here, is that Judas did NOT repent, and never WOULD have.

There's a REASON that Jesus said that Judas' father was the devil and that it would've been better if Judas had not been born.

This would be an excellent study, by the way.

A question for you:

Did/does God have the "right" to hate/abhor evil?

Excellent question...? (last question) (above) Yes he does... and that may be the part of God, that he asked himself if he should hide or conceal with Abraham...

Abraham is God's friend, and the closest He (God) could bring him to understanding Him (God) was through personal experience, perhaps shared personal experience...

Like what he had to with Issac, (almost)...

But God does have a right to hate/abhor evil, and I'm actually digging at that... And I definitely believe he does...

Hey do you mind me making a thread out of that question...?

I agree with you on everything else, I know he was lost, but was just thinking that, in another life, or another reality maybe, if it could have gone differently for him is all...

God Bless!

PeaceJoyLove · Jan 30, 2018

brinny said:
You just posted that Jesus called Judas "friend", comparing what Jesus said to Peter. This calling Judas "friend" was most likely Judas' last chance to repent and bow his will to Jesus Christ, and claim Him as His Savior, which he rejected. Was Judas Jesus' "friend"?

Was this contrast that you posted an effort to demonstrate that Jesus thought of Peter as an "enemy"?

Let's go a little further...

Where is Judas NOW?

Where is Peter NOW?

Which one lived and died for Christ?

In addition, how did Jesus describe Judas?

Would not matter how I say it, you are hearing what you are hearing...

HE fills all in all and loves us all (while yet sinners) has everything to with how we 'see' and how HE sees...and eating of it which is the same as taking thought.

Do you think there is anything that exists that did not come from God for His purpose to be fulfilled?

brinny · Jan 30, 2018

Neogaia777 said:
Excellent question...? (last question) (above) Yes he does... and that may be the part of God, that he asked himself if he should hide or conceal with Abraham...

Abraham is God's friend, and the closest He (God) could bring him to understanding Him (God) was through personal experience, perhaps shared personal experience...

Like what he had to with Issac, (almost)...

But God does have a right to hate/abhor evil, and I'm actually digging at that...

Hey do you mind me making a thread out of that question...?

I agree with you on everything else, I know he was lost, but was just thinking that, in another life, or another reality maybe, if it could have gone differently for him is all...

God Bless!

Judas CHOSE to be lost. He was WITH Jesus how many years? He stole money. He NEVER regarded or had any love for Jesus, and consequently for the living God Who SENT His only begotten Son as Savior.

Judas killed himself, rather than seeking forgiveness from the very One Who could ultimately forgive and save him. He did this rather than bow down his will to the Savior.

This "remorse" that is spoken of about Judas....was it a "Godly sorrow" or a "worldly sorrow"?

brinny · Jan 30, 2018

PeaceJoyLove said:
Would not matter how I say it, you are hearing what you are hearing...

HE fills all in all and loves us all (while yet sinners) has everything to with how we 'see' and how HE sees...and eating of it which is the same as taking thought.

Do you think there is anything that exists that did not come from God for His purpose to be fulfilled?

You dodged my post that you quoted quite nicely.

Neogaia777 · Jan 30, 2018

mozo41 said:
After Judas took the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to Judas, "What you are about to do, do quickly."

Be agreeing quickly with your accuser while you are on the way with him, lest ever the accuser deliver you to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you will be cast into prison.

not pondered this before but perhaps it was for Christs sake Judas acted quickly

You can agree with him (your adversary) about the Old Covenant, and what it bring against you, that is against you, till your in Christ and under the New Covenant, and you can then say to him," hey, yeah I was a different person then, but this is me now..."

And then tell him, and you don't know me now, cause there is something in me that you lack, and don't know, and you want to take it and destroy it...

Not gonna happen...

Anyway,

God Bless!

PeaceJoyLove · Jan 30, 2018

mozo41 said:
After Judas took the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to Judas, "What you are about to do, do quickly."

Be agreeing quickly with your accuser while you are on the way with him, lest ever the accuser deliver you to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you will be cast into prison.

not pondered this before but perhaps it was for Christs sake Judas acted quickly

As Jesus hung on the cross asking His father to forgive them for not knowing what they were doing...knowing those who did the deed were fulfilling God's purpose as much...

Neogaia777 · Jan 30, 2018

PeaceJoyLove said:
As Jesus hung on the cross asking His father to forgive them for not knowing what they were doing...knowing those who did the deed were fulfilling God's purpose as much...

Even Judas..?

brinny · Jan 30, 2018

PeaceJoyLove said:
As Jesus hung on the cross asking His father to forgive them for not knowing what they were doing...knowing those who did the deed were fulfilling God's purpose as much...

And some repented.

Jesus was not speaking of those who never repented and never intended to.

PeaceJoyLove · Jan 30, 2018

brinny said:
You dodged my post that you quoted quite nicely.

Did you read any of the scriptures I posted in there?

brinny said:
You just posted that Jesus called Judas "friend", comparing what Jesus said to Peter. This calling Judas "friend" was most likely Judas' last chance to repent and bow his will to Jesus Christ, and claim Him as His Savior, which he rejected. Was Judas Jesus' "friend"?

PeaceJoyLove said:
Matthew 26:49 Going directly to Jesus, he said, “Greetings, Rabbi,” and kissed Him. 50 "Friend," Jesus replied, "do what you came for."

Why do you supposed Jesus called him friend?
Peter swore he would never deny or betray Jesus. Peter didn't believe Jesus would die on the cross. There was something interfering with Peter's hearing and Jesus pointed it out. Judas made no claims to any of that...just acted...no battle within (yet) (Romans 7) which again comes down to the process taking place within...

Neogaia777 · Jan 30, 2018

brinny said:
And some repented.

Jesus was not speaking of those who never repented and never intended to.

That's the choice, I'll agree with you, "repentance", you got it, hit the nail on the head, that is the one choice we have to make or not make, but true repentance happens in the heart, and is a matter of the heart, and I am wondering if the judging of which should only be given to one who knows and reads all hearts, and not us who do it imperfectly or unjustly...

God Bless!

PeaceJoyLove · Jan 30, 2018

Neogaia777 said:
That's the choice, I'll agree with you, "repentance", you got it, hit the nail on the head, that is the one choice we have to make or not make, but true repentance happens in the heart, and is a matter of the heart, and I am wondering if the judging of which should only be given to one who knows and reads all hearts, and not us who do it imperfectly or unjustly...

God Bless!

God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.

brinny · Jan 30, 2018

PeaceJoyLove said:
Did you read any of the scriptures I posted in there?

Why do you supposed Jesus called him friend?
Peter swore he would never deny or betray Jesus. Peter didn't believe Jesus would die on the cross. There was something interfering with Peter's hearing and Jesus pointed it out. Judas made no claims to any of that...just acted...no battle within (yet) (Romans 7) which again comes down to the process taking place within...

Ultimately, what was the outcome of Peter?

What was the outcome of Judas?

Did Peter seek forgiveness?

Did Judas?

Who claimed that Jesus was/is the Son of the living God?

Who DIED for Jesus?

mozo41 · Jan 30, 2018

PeaceJoyLove said:
As Jesus hung on the cross asking His father to forgive them for not knowing what they were doing...knowing those who did the deed were fulfilling God's purpose as much...

no doubt, he measured nothing concerning GODS purpose, ( but his hour came to ) he being every bit a man as we are ... and knowing he was to lay down this life caused him agony ....

PeaceJoyLove · Jan 30, 2018

brinny said:
Jesus Christ did NOT love evil nor the originator of it, my friend.

He didn't die FOR evil. He died to defeat and obliterate it.

The tragedy here, is that Judas did NOT repent, and never WOULD have.

There's a REASON that Jesus said that Judas' father was the devil and that it would've been better if Judas had not been born.

This would be an excellent study, by the way.

A question for you:

Did/does God have the "right" to hate/abhor evil?

And where did evil enter into the picture? In the garden at a tree...before they ate, God declared all HE made as "very good"...it was this eating that gave them knowledge of evil... that set the whole journey of our soul in motion.

Perception (eyesight change) is everything...as Jesus said, If you were blind, you would have no sin. But since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.

PeaceJoyLove · Jan 30, 2018

No one can come unless the Father draw (drag) him...

brinny · Jan 30, 2018

PeaceJoyLove said:
And where did evil enter into the picture? In the garden at a tree...before they ate, God declared all HE made as "very good"...it was this eating that gave them knowledge of evil... that set the whole journey of our soul in motion.

Perception (eyesight change) is everything...as Jesus said, If you were blind, you would have no sin. But since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.

Evil entered the picture when Lucifer, not having a "tempter" sinned, seeking to be as the Most High God. He then became Satan, God's adversary.

Sin then entered the Garden of Eden through Satan, who tempted Adam and Eve, and they sinned, listening to Satan who in essence. called God a "liar". By going along with Satan, Adam and Eve were agreeing that God was a "liar". (This is an entire study in itself).

Thus sin, condemnation, and the curse of death commenced. God however, spoke of a Redeemer, from the seed of the woman, Who would crush Satan's head.

Neogaia777 · Jan 30, 2018

brinny said:
Evil entered the picture when Lucifer, not having a "tempter" sinned, seeking to be as the Most High God. He then became Satan, God's adversary.

Sin then entered the Garden of Eden through Satan, who tempted Adam and Eve, and they sinned, listening to Satan who in essence. called God a "liar". By going along with Satan, Adam and Ever were agreeing that God was a "liar". (This is an entire study in itself).

Thus sin, condemnation, and the curse of death commenced. God however, spoke of a Redeemer, from the seed of the woman, Who would crush Satan's head.

And, here we are...? What do we do now...? (Don't be calling God or believing God is a liar, for one)

Anyhow, "Here we are...? What now...?

brinny · Jan 30, 2018

Neogaia777 said:
And, here we are...? What do we do now...? (Don't be calling God or believing God is a liar, for one)

Anyhow, "Here we are...? What now...?

Yes, i agree....we don't want to be calling God a liar, but just as a warning, Satan goes about as a roaring lion with strong deception, and he DOES still call God a liar and attempts to deceive and place doubt in the hearts and minds of all of us, if we are not steeped in God's Word and putting our spiritual armor on, so that we withstand the darts of the enemy aimed at us. For the unsaved, Satan is mowing them down like grass because they have no defense against the lies and deception that is so prevalent.

mozo41 · Jan 30, 2018

ones own self righteousness is measured by what one deems the measure of another's unrighteousness ... it is of gain by measuring another's perceived lack ...

in other words its a crooked path of a serpent, and this very same path Jesus made straight

edit: removed an S

Would Judas have been lost, if he hadn't been lost...?

Well-Known Member

Old Soul

Well-Known Member

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places

Old Soul

Well-Known Member

Old Soul

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places

Well-Known Member

Old Soul

Well-Known Member

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places

Old Soul

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency