• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Featured Would Judas have been lost, if he hadn't been lost...?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neogaia777, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Disciple Supporter

    +4,393
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Would Judas have been lost, if he had not been lost, or have killed himself...?

    What would he have been had he not chosen to kill himself...?

    Could he have been a very powerful witness for Christ...?

    Comments...?

    God Bless!
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

    +6,072
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    If Judas had not apostatized then he would not have apostatized.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  3. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

    +258
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    He was noted a a thief
    John 12:6
    He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

    And a Devil
    Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"


    So what do you think about one who continues to sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth and had in their character to betray even the Son of God for a large sum of money?

    I think Judas is with those who suffer because of his own doing.
     
  4. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +107,535
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    My friend, Judas was who Jesus clearly said he was.

    What was it Jesus said about Judas?
     
  5. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Disciple Supporter

    +4,393
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Something he could have changed and repented of though, if he had lived that is...?
     
  6. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Disciple Supporter

    +4,393
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Christ may not have liked Judas at the moment or liked what he was doing, that Christ full well knew fully, but he did not hate him, and I think he loved him still...

    If he had lived, and repented and changed, what would his testimony or witness have been...?
     
  7. mozo41

    mozo41 Well-Known Member

    971
    +865
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    the path Judas walked was in no way less prophetic as that of Christ as is ours ....
     
  8. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +107,535
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    Jesus Christ did NOT love evil nor the originator of it, my friend.

    He didn't die FOR evil. He died to defeat and obliterate it.

    The tragedy here, is that Judas did NOT repent, and never WOULD have.

    There's a REASON that Jesus said that Judas' father was the devil and that it would've been better if Judas had not been born.

    This would be an excellent study, by the way.

    A question for you:

    Did/does God have the "right" to hate/abhor evil?
     
  9. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

    +1,139
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Interesting to note that Jesus chose the whole twelve, even knowing one was a devil...in light of when Jesus was hanging on the cross, He asked His father to forgive them because they didn't know what they were doing...they were fulfilling God's purpose (He purposed in Himself from the beginning) just as much...

    I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
    That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.
    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    .
     
  10. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +107,535
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    Judas was chosen to fulfill the prophesy (the reason that Jesus the Christ was born), and that was to die on the cross, to shed His blood for those who would claim Him as their Savior. And it is written, woe to the one who betrays Jesus the Christ.

    Judas was exactly who Jesus said He was.

    It is true that God Almighty created "evil" in that Lucifer was "created" and was given the ability to "choose". He chose to, out of pride, to attempt to usurp the living God. HE wanted to be worshiped. If he could have, he would've thrown God from His throne, killed Him, and sat on the living God's throne.

    As such, he was no longer "Lucifer", but "Satan" which means "adversary". He had/has no "Savior". And that is because he had NO "tempter". He originated sin and became the "tempter" of man, as demonstrated in the Garden of Eden with Eve and then Adam. As Jesus said, Satan was/is a murderer from the beginning and the father of lies.

    This verse comes to mind:

    "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" ~Isaiah 5:20

    Gnosticism and any such Gnostic writings also comes to mind, where there is complete heresy on its take on Jesus the Christ and El Elyon, God Most High.
     
  11. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

    +461
    Christian
    Married
    God calls all unconditionally but choses a few conditionally.

    Israel was called but only Joshua and Caleb were chosen.

    So, many are called but only a few are chosen.

    Initially, Abraham was not fully trusting, but when he saw God's ability and willingness to save, he gave up having doubts.

    I'm sure Joshua and Caleb would have murmured when there was no water, but after seeing God's ability and willingness to deliver, they stopped having doubts.

    Which category was Judas in: Joshua and Caleb or Rest of Israel?

    Hint: only a few entered rest.
     
  12. Soul-searching

    Soul-searching Member

    152
    +154
    Denmark
    Christian
    Single
    I think Judas had the power to convert himself into a good human, but he did not know how to, he did not have faith in himself. I do not think Judas was evil at all, i think Judas was just caught up in a plan that was out of his reach. I believe he could be as good a witness as anyone else, if he had known to love himself, and forgive himself like i believe Jesus would have forgiven him, like he forgives all of us if we believe. The thing about Judas in my view is that he did not feel he deserved forgiveness, that is why he killed himself, that could show great remorse, to choose death, rather than eternal life, and that to me shows he was not evil.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  13. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

    +1,139
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I have not said what you think...

    I do not disagree with the scripture you shared from Matthew 26 "And it is written, woe to the one who betrays Jesus the Christ." Or that Jesus did not call Judas a thief. Further on in in this scripture, Jesus blessed the cup telling each "Drink from it, all of you;"...then telling them "This very night you will all fall away on account of Me. For it is written: 'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'"
    Peter says, "“Even if all fall away on account of You, I never will.” While Jesus knew exactly what he would do three times before the cock crowed.

    Jesus asked them to keep watch as He prayed and they fell asleep... Did Jesus condemn them when He said "the spirit is willing, but the body is weak.”…?

    I have never read gnostic writings, or teachings of men. I read the Bible. The truth of our soul journey is there right from the very beginning, cover to cover. Scripture interprets scripture...

    I truly believe Jesus is The Way/The Gate (we enter in)...inwardly...Jesus said "few there be that find it."

    Even Jesus said to Peter, "Get thee behind me Satan..."
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  14. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

    +1,139
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Do any of us have the power to do anything? Scripture says with man it is impossible, with God all things are possible...And yes, God is LOVE...

    Faith...without it it is impossible to please God. He can only give us what we hope for...faith being the hope of things not seen...for what kind of faith is it if we only hope for what we can see...
    God had a plan (from the beginning) He purposed in Himself...ALL THINGS work together for good...whether we can (yet) 'see' it or not...Just at it says He fills all in all...has everything to do with what happened at the tree and if we still eat from it...
     
  15. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +107,535
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    I could be mistaken, but are you defending Judas, and insinuating that the last verse applies to me?

    Just curious.

    Thank you kindly.
     
  16. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +107,535
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    Jesus would not agree with you.
     
  17. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

    +1,139
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    No, I have not said what you think. The whole of scripture speaks the truth...Matthew 26 speaks deeply of this truth...the last verse about Peter goes along with Matthew 26 and the overall picture of truth Jesus is speaking...nothing directed toward you. I have no sword to wield.

    God is God of all, fills all in all...even if we cannot 'see'...why do you suppose Jesus said those words to Peter when He knew what Peter was about to do, and yet said to Judas (who He knew what he was about to do) "What you do, do quickly"?
     
  18. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +107,535
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    Your last sentence.....would you be so kind as to elaborate on it?

    Thank you kindly.
     
  19. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

    +1,139
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married

    It has to do with where we are 'seeing'/perceiving from what the truth becomes to us...Why do you think Jesus said one thing to Peter and another to Judas? Jesus even called Judas "friend", knowing full well what Judas had already done...not a word of condemnation came from His mouth...

    It has everything to do with perception...and losing our soul to find it IN HIM...Jesus knowing "the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak"...

    Some scripture to consider...

    Matthew 16:22 Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. “Far be it from You, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to You!” 23 But Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men." 24 Then Jesus told His disciples, "If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done. 28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

    John 13:27 After Judas took the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to Judas, "What you are about to do, do quickly."

    Matthew 26:49 Going directly to Jesus, he said, “Greetings, Rabbi,” and kissed Him. 50 "Friend," Jesus replied, "do what you came for." Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus, and arrested Him. 51 At this, one of Jesus’ companions drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him. "For all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

    Matthew 26:33 Peter said to Him, "Even if all fall away on account of You, I never will."

    Matthew 26:41 "Watch and pray so that you will not enter into temptation. For the spirit is willing, but the body is weak."

    Matthew 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.


    If Jesus did not condemn Judas...who are you/we to do it? It has to do with a sword...and dying by it to LIVE...or a losing one's soul/life to find it (again)

    I have not said one word in defense of Judas, though you heard it...
     
  20. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +107,535
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    You just posted that Jesus called Judas "friend", comparing what Jesus said to Peter. This calling Judas "friend" was most likely Judas' last chance to repent and bow his will to Jesus Christ, and claim Him as His Savior, which he rejected. Was Judas Jesus' "friend"?

    Was this contrast that you posted an effort to demonstrate that Jesus thought of Peter as an "enemy"?

    Let's go a little further...

    Where is Judas NOW?

    Where is Peter NOW?

    Which one lived and died for Christ?

    In addition, how did Jesus describe Judas?
     
Loading...