Would Jesus allow his Church to Teach Falsehoods?

[chestertonrules]

That verse confirms that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. That church however is not the catholic church as they fail the test from Isa 8:20. The Holy Spirit is leading those who are listening to His voice. One day soon all those who adhere to the law of God will come together. Many will come from different denominations. Some will come out of Babylon. At at that time will the people of God be clearly distinguished from those who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.

Could a Church that is the pillar and foundation of truth teach contradictory doctrines?

 

[Stryder06]

Could a Church that is the pillar and foundation of truth teach contradictory doctrines?

You tell me. Can a good child go bad?

Your missing the point that Jesus has children everywhere. The institution of the RCC is not the one Christ established. We see two churches in Revelation. There is a pure church and a false church, with a score of smaller apostate churches.

 

[chestertonrules]

You tell me. Can a good child go bad?

Your missing the point that Jesus has children everywhere. The institution of the RCC is not the one Christ established. We see two churches in Revelation. There is a pure church and a false church, with a score of smaller apostate churches.

All Christians subsist within the Catholic Church, even if they are not in full communion.

The point is that a pillar and foundation of truth must have a singular, non contradictory position on the issues.

Protestantism cannot be the pillar and foundation of truth because there are contradictory messages on central matters of faith.

 

[Stryder06]

All Christians subsist within the Catholic Church, even if they are not in full communion.

Yeah, I disagree with that.

The point is that a pillar and foundation of truth must have a singular, non contradictory position on the issues.

Agreed.

Protestantism cannot be the pillar and foundation of truth because there are contradictory messages on central matters of faith.

What you're missing is that its not about denomination. The church of God is built up of those who believe the word of God. It does not matter what denomination they belong to because before Christ comes back there will be one flock following the shepherd, and it won't be about denomination but about truth.

The catholic church is not that church as its teachings are not in line with scripture. Again, Isa 8:20.

 

[chestertonrules]

What you're missing is that its not about denomination. The church of God is built up of those who believe the word of God. It does not matter what denomination they belong to because before Christ comes back there will be one flock following the shepherd, and it won't be about denomination but about truth.

The catholic church is not that church as its teachings are not in line with scripture. Again, Isa 8:20.

You claim that the Church of God is those who believe the word of God.

What if two of these individuals reach contradictory positions on a central matter of faith, for example, baptism.

Do these contradictory positions fit within the biblical description of the Church?

The Catholic Church is 100% in line with scripture. It may not be in line with your personal interpretation of scripture, but that's the whole point. Outside of the Church it is chaos.

 

[Dorothea]

How can Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy be the will of Jesus if they are teaching falsehoods?

Why are you throwing in the EO when it wasn't even in the OP? Really. And since the EO doesn't teach falsehoods, it's not a concern.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

You claim that the Church of God is those who believe the word of God.

What if two of these individuals reach contradictory positions on a central matter of faith, for example, baptism.

Do these contradictory positions fit within the biblical description of the Church?

The Catholic Church is 100% in line with scripture. It may not be in line with your personal interpretation of scripture, but that's the whole point. Outside of the Church it is chaos.

The judgement day of Christ would clear up doctrinal differences that are used to separate physically those who are spiritually united.

 

[Stryder06]

You claim that the Church of God is those who believe the word of God.

What if two of these individuals reach contradictory positions on a central matter of faith, for example, baptism.

You go with what the bible says.

Do these contradictory positions fit within the biblical description of the Church?

The Catholic Church is 100% in line with scripture. It may not be in line with your personal interpretation of scripture, but that's the whole point. Outside of the Church it is chaos.

The problem is this whole "your personal interpretation" thing we have going on. No scripture is given to private interpretation. Scripture isn't relative. It isn't this way for some and this way for others. It is what it is. Your church is not 100% in line with scripture. Taking for example your example of baptism. Baptism is suppose to be done by immersion, not sprinkling. The very word baptism is translated from means to submerge.

The thing is that you'll simply come along and say "Well, that's how you take it, but the church has done it xyz way for abc years..." as if any of that matters. If the church taught that fornication was ok and made it a doctrine which was accepted for the last 200 years, would that make fornication ok? Not at all. All that means is that the church has, for 200 years, ok'd a sin.

Chaos doesn't result because you are outside of "the church". Chaos is a direct result of discarding the plain words of scripture for the doctrines of man.

 

[chestertonrules]

The judgement day of Christ would clear up doctrinal differences that are used to separate physically those who are spiritually united.

It's a little late by then, don't you think?

I want to know the will of God today.

 

[chestertonrules]

You go with what the bible says.

People reach drastically different conclusions from reading the bible. Baptism is a perfect example.

The problem is this whole "your personal interpretation" thing we have going on. No scripture is given to private interpretation. Scripture isn't relative.

Then why do so many bible believing Christians hold vastly different beliefs?

 

[Dragons87]

I want to know the will of God today.

Well, a lot of the stuff is quite plain.

"He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God." -- Micah 6:8

"It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God;" -- 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5

I think too many of us "know", but not enough of us "do". Or, a lot of us want to know what isn't knowable, but not enough of us put to action what we already know.

Taking your example of baptism, we might differ with each other about what it means, but we are all in chorus in that it must be something that is done. So we do it.

 

[Stryder06]

People reach drastically different conclusions from reading the bible. Baptism is a perfect example.

Not just baptism. It goes far beyond that. The reason is that people would rather accept a lie than the truth because they're hearts are hardened.

Then why do so many bible believing Christians hold vastly different beliefs?

Christ is the searcher of hearts, only He can determine who is truly His and who is not. We are all judged according to the light we have and the light we could have received. Study to show thyself approved is the admonition. We are to find out if what we believe is truth according to the bible, or if they are doctrines of men. God will never leave those who are searching for the light in darkness. Tradition has a hold over Christianity that God will soon break and there will be a most drastic change in Christianity.

 

[chestertonrules]

Well, a lot of the stuff is quite plain.

"He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God." -- Micah 6:8

"It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God;" -- 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5

I think too many of us "know", but not enough of us "do". Or, a lot of us want to know what isn't knowable, but not enough of us put to action what we already know.

Taking your example of baptism, we might differ with each other about what it means, but we are all in chorus in that it must be something that is done. So we do it.

Some Christians claim it is symbollic and unnecessary for salvation.

Some Christians believe that infant baptism is salvific, while others believe that only a believers baptism counts.

Some believers insist that baptism must be by immersion to count as baptism.

It's not quite that simple if you reject the Church.

 

[chestertonrules]

Tradition has a hold over Christianity that God will soon break and there will be a most drastic change in Christianity.

It is the rejection of tradition that causes divisions.

2 Thes 2
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

 

[sungaunga]

Would Jesus allow his Church to Teach Falsehoods?

with all these "did God make evil", "God created evil" treads why not

 

[Dragons87]

Some Christians claim it is symbollic and unnecessary for salvation.

Some Christians believe that infant baptism is salvific, while others believe that only a believers baptism counts.

Some believers insist that baptism must be by immersion to count as baptism.

It's not quite that simple if you reject the Church.

The emphasis is that we all do it, in one way, shape or form, or another. And surely, while ceremonies are important, it is nothing compared to how a person actually is? You know, the qualities quoted in Micah and 1 Thessalonians.

 

[chestertonrules]

The emphasis is that we all do it, in one way, shape or form, or another. And surely, while ceremonies are important, it is nothing compared to how a person actually is? You know, the qualities quoted in Micah and 1 Thessalonians.

Jesus told the leaders of the Church, the apostles, that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth and that he would be with them until the end of time.

I believe this.

Why would you want less than the fullness of truth?

Why lean on your own understanding?

 

[chestertonrules]

Would Jesus allow his Church to Teach Falsehoods?

with all these "did God make evil", "God created evil" treads why not

I guess it depends on your understanding of the infallibility of the bible.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead his church into all truth and that the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church.

 

[Stryder06]

It is the rejection of tradition that causes divisions.

2 Thes 2
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

Not at all. It's the rejection of scripture that causes divisions. Those weren't arbitrary traditions spoken of by Paul. He didn't just come up with stuff and tell the church to do it. The traditions He is speaking of are those founded in the scriptures. Love the Lord thy God. Honor your parents. Keep the Lord's supper. Lover you neighbor. Dare I say it, that he taught them how to keep holy the sabbath day as that was yet another biblical tradition that he followed?

You don't get to just make up doctrines and say "Because we are the Church of the living God this shall stand." If it does not adhere to thus saith the Lord and It is written then it is not profitable for anything but the destruction of a persons soul.

 

[chestertonrules]

Not at all. It's the rejection of scripture that causes divisions. .

Are you rejecting the scripture I just posted?

Seriously, you seem to be missin my point.

There are dozens of denominations who claim to believe in the bible alone as their teaching authority, but they reach drastically different conclusions about what the bible teaches.

Do you deny this?