Would it be sin?!?

[Uphill Battle]

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

It is duly noted and will receive the attention it deserves.


.

LOL. EVERYTHING expressed on these boards is opinion. Not one of us speaks infallibly.

What makes your opinion more valuable than others?

(Or, do you pronounce infallible truth like the pope?)

Frankly, if someone holds that their own opinion is worth more than others, is both offensive, and arrogant.

 

[DeaconDean]

deacon,

Please show me where in the bible God said it's okay for us to take powerful chemicals and use surgery to change the way he designed our body to work?

Don't you find it odd, even a little, that God would make a female only fertile less than 2 weeks out of the month?

If God did that, then why do we need to improve on what he did and make ourselves infertile permanently?

I do not see in the bible God giving us that power to abuse our body in that way.

If your going to go that way, then why go to the doctor in any circumstance when your sick? Why go to the doctor when your eyesight is failing? Why go to the doctor when your diagnosed with cancer? Why go to the doctor when your wife has a miscarriage?

Yet in all these circumstances,

powerful chemicals and surgery

are used as treatment. Why is it OK to use the doctor for curing these ailments and it is not for Birth control?

I've had a vasectomy because 1) I'm 44 years old and my wife and I do not want any more children. 2) She was going to have to come of Depo shots anyway because of her age, and this was the most logical way to go.

Now, are you going to be so stern as to say because I've had a vasectomy I'm doomed?

What about the millions of people who get tattoos in spite of what is said in the OT?

How about the millions of people (men) who get their ears pierced just like women?

I don't condemn people who want tattoos, neither do I condemn men who have their ears pierced, I just say thats not for me.

We sing a song in church that says we have to come to God "Just as I am" vasectomy, hysterectomy, tattoos, pierced ears, whatever.

If I follow your line of thought, then even going to the doctor for a common cold is wrong because the doctor will give us a shot, or prescribe "chemicals" to cure us and that is outside:

change the way he designed our body to work

After all, didn't He create antibodies to fight this sort of thing.

You can't swing the door both ways, if it is wrong to have a vasectomy, hysterectomy, shot for a cold, surgery for cancer, that is altering the way he designed our bodies to work.

Why not just forget the doctors in such cases and heed the bible when it says:

Praying for healing in the OT:

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Exodus 15:26: ""...If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee." (KJV)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]II Kings 20:5: "...Thus saith Jehovah, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee..." (ASV) Here, God tells Isaiah to inform Hezekiah that God has heard his prayer and seen his tears, and that He will cure him of a serious boil.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Psalms 34:17-19: "The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles. The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all." (KJV)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Psalms 103: "Bless the Lord, O my soul,...And forget none of His benefits; Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; Who healeth all thy diseases;" (KJV)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Isaiah 53:5: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."(KJV) This is a reference to the "suffering servant" in Isaiah which many Christians believe prophesied about Jesus. The Hebrew word napha can refer to physical or spiritual healing. Here it is translated simply as healed. It is not clear whether physical or spiritual healing or both is intended here. However, the references to transgressions and iniquities might imply that it is spiritual healing.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Isaiah 57:18-21: "I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners. I create the fruit of the lips: Peace, peace, to him that is far off and to him that is near, saith Jehovah; and I will heal him. But the wicked are like the troubled sea; for it cannot rest, and its waters cast up mire and dirt. There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked." (ASV) From these and previous verses, God appears to promise healing to all those, both far and near, with a contrite and humble heart. For those who do wicked deeds, there is apparently neither peace nor healing.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jeremiah 30:17: "For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith Jehovah; because they have called thee an outcast..." (ASV) God promises Jacob that his enemies will be vanquished, and that Joseph will be healed. Subsequent passages promises Jacob that his descendants "shall be my people, and I will be your God.."[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Hosea 6:1: "Come, and let us return unto Jehovah; for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up." (ASV)[/FONT]


The same for the NT:


[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Matthew 7:7-11: "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, who, if his son shall ask him for a loaf, will give him a stone; or if he shall ask for a fish, will give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father who is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" (ASV)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Matt 21:22: "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (ASV)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Mark 16:18 "they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." (ASV) This passage appears to be a forgery. They are verses not written by the author of the Gospel of Mark but added by an unknown, later editor.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]John 15:7: "If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish and it will be given you. This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples." (ASV)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]James 5:14-15: "Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him." (ASV) This appears to be a guarantee of recovery for anyone who goes through a specific religious ritual, led by elders from his church. Not only healing would be automatically accomplished, but the formerly ill person would have his sins forgiven.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Romans 8:32 "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?" (ASV)[/FONT]

If your going to condemn any person who uses B/C, seems to me that you need to condemn anybody who goes to the doctor for any type of healing also? I mean if your going to be really technical about it all.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Theophorus]

This is silly. Intent is being limited here. ie, the man who throws himself on a hand grenade "intended" to kill himself. And sodomy is not an option. So, given the OP, there are these:

1) Abstain
2)Abstain during certain times and hope for the best
3)Birth control (which is not the same as abstaining)
4)Sterilization (which is birth control, however there is always the possibility of children....)

the faith and strength of the couple involved determines the choice. And the choice should be made with a blessing, and any fault falling on he who gave that blessing.

Choice 1, the marriage might disolve.
Choice 2 takes a risk that could shatter the faith of either or lead to the death of a child or the mother.
Choice 3 could put a physical and spiritual burden on the marriage.
Choice 4 could liberate the passions of the husband or wife, or more likely, asks a lesser sacrifice from him than abstaining. And if the husband wanted to see children from his own seed, it is not to be under estimated.

 

[Uphill Battle]

This is silly. Intent is being limited here. ie, the man who throws himself on a hand grenade "intended" to kill himself. And sodomy is not an option. So, given the OP, there are these:

1) Abstain
2)Abstain during certain times and hope for the best
3)Birth control (which is not the same as abstaining)
4)Sterilization (which is birth control, however there is always the possibility of children....)

the faith and strength of the couple involved determines the choice. And the choice should be made with a blessing, and any fault falling on he who gave that blessing.

Choice 1, the marriage might disolve.
Choice 2 takes a risk that could shatter the faith of either or lead to the death of a child or the mother.
Choice 3 could put a physical and spiritual burden on the marriage.
Choice 4 could liberate the passions of the husband or wife, or more likely, asks a lesser sacrifice from him than abstaining. And if the husband wanted to see children from his own seed, it is not to be under estimated.

so, am I to understand then, that sterilization would be more preferable than lesser birth control methods?

 

[Theophorus]

so, am I to understand then, that sterilization would be more preferable than lesser birth control methods?

Possibly. Sterilization removes the chance of an aborton, so that should be taken into consideration.

The issue is not just strictly procreation, though that is a major mitigating factor. But there are others as well. This is an example on the edge of the bell curve, and should not be used to make generalizations.

 

[thereselittleflower]

It seems that some need to read the book:

Architects of the Culture of Death
Donald De Marco and Benjamin Wiker . .

there are some not too pretty and sordid details that are simply too gross to mention . .. but when people speak so cavalierly of sterilization and contraception as possibly viable options, I wonder if they would do so if they knew some of what is contained in this book regarding our history for the last 100 years . . .

It is really appalling to me how some are promoting ideas these architechs of the culture of death promoted . . .




.

 

[Theophorus]

It seems that some need to read the book:

Architects of the Culture of Death
Donald De Marco and Benjamin Wiker . .

there are some not too pretty and sordid details that are simply too gross to mention . .. but when people speak so cavalierly of sterilization and contraception as possibly viable options, I wonder if they would do so if they knew some of what is contained in this book regarding our history for the last 100 years . . .

It is really appalling to me how some are promoting ideas these architechs of the culture of death promoted . . .




.

I agree with you. The OP is attempting to define suicide for a person in a flaming highrise.

 

[Benedicta00]

This is silly. Intent is being limited here. ie, the man who throws himself on a hand grenade "intended" to kill himself. And sodomy is not an option. So, given the OP, there are these:

1) Abstain
2)Abstain during certain times and hope for the best
3)Birth control (which is not the same as abstaining)
4)Sterilization (which is birth control, however there is always the possibility of children....)

the faith and strength of the couple involved determines the choice. And the choice should be made with a blessing, and any fault falling on he who gave that blessing.

Choice 1, the marriage might disolve.
Choice 2 takes a risk that could shatter the faith of either or lead to the death of a child or the mother.
Choice 3 could put a physical and spiritual burden on the marriage.
Choice 4 could liberate the passions of the husband or wife, or more likely, asks a lesser sacrifice from him than abstaining. And if the husband wanted to see children from his own seed, it is not to be under estimated.

I don't see the rational for sterilization because a wife's life may be at risk.

You are closing your self off to life permanently. You are not trusting God to care for you both and you are just acting out of fear.

Why the surgery, why can't one trust God? Use the natural way God made the human body and put everything else under His providence?

What is so horrible wrong about that?

Seeing how the Orthodox believes in remarriage after divorce, what if a divorce were to happen? Oh but wait, you made yourself sterile.

What if your wife died from something else? you would be free then to marry, oh but you'd be sterile.

 

[Benedicta00]

Possibly. Sterilization removes the chance of an aborton, so that should be taken into consideration.

It also permanently removes being open to life, that also need to be taken into consideration.

 

[Benedicta00]

LOL. EVERYTHING expressed on these boards is opinion. Not one of us speaks infallibly.

What makes your opinion more valuable than others?

(Or, do you pronounce infallible truth like the pope?)

Frankly, if someone holds that their own opinion is worth more than others, is both offensive, and arrogant.

you could have fooled me. Everyone seems to think their view is THE view and no, Protestant have no biblical support to take chemicals and use surgery to alter their body.

But we are a little different- we ourselves do not speak infallibly but since we speak what Christ's Church teaches us to be true, we know what was say is true.

 

[Benedicta00]

If your going to go that way, then why go to the doctor in any circumstance when your sick? Why go to the doctor when your eyesight is failing? Why go to the doctor when your diagnosed with cancer? Why go to the doctor when your wife has a miscarriage?

Yet in all these circumstances,

are used as treatment. Why is it OK to use the doctor for curing these ailments and it is not for Birth control?

I've had a vasectomy because 1) I'm 44 years old and my wife and I do not want any more children. 2) She was going to have to come of Depo shots anyway because of her age, and this was the most logical way to go.

Now, are you going to be so stern as to say because I've had a vasectomy I'm doomed?

What about the millions of people who get tattoos in spite of what is said in the OT?

How about the millions of people (men) who get their ears pierced just like women?

I don't condemn people who want tattoos, neither do I condemn men who have their ears pierced, I just say thats not for me.

We sing a song in church that says we have to come to God "Just as I am" vasectomy, hysterectomy, tattoos, pierced ears, whatever.

If I follow your line of thought, then even going to the doctor for a common cold is wrong because the doctor will give us a shot, or prescribe "chemicals" to cure us and that is outside:



After all, didn't He create antibodies to fight this sort of thing.

You can't swing the door both ways, if it is wrong to have a vasectomy, hysterectomy, shot for a cold, surgery for cancer, that is altering the way he designed our bodies to work.

Why not just forget the doctors in such cases and heed the bible when it says:

Praying for healing in the OT:

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Exodus 15:26: ""...If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee." (KJV)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]II Kings 20:5: "...Thus saith Jehovah, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee..." (ASV) Here, God tells Isaiah to inform Hezekiah that God has heard his prayer and seen his tears, and that He will cure him of a serious boil.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Psalms 34:17-19: "The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles. The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all." (KJV)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Psalms 103: "Bless the Lord, O my soul,...And forget none of His benefits; Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; Who healeth all thy diseases;" (KJV)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Isaiah 53:5: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."(KJV) This is a reference to the "suffering servant" in Isaiah which many Christians believe prophesied about Jesus. The Hebrew word napha can refer to physical or spiritual healing. Here it is translated simply as healed. It is not clear whether physical or spiritual healing or both is intended here. However, the references to transgressions and iniquities might imply that it is spiritual healing.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Isaiah 57:18-21: "I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners. I create the fruit of the lips: Peace, peace, to him that is far off and to him that is near, saith Jehovah; and I will heal him. But the wicked are like the troubled sea; for it cannot rest, and its waters cast up mire and dirt. There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked." (ASV) From these and previous verses, God appears to promise healing to all those, both far and near, with a contrite and humble heart. For those who do wicked deeds, there is apparently neither peace nor healing.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jeremiah 30:17: "For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith Jehovah; because they have called thee an outcast..." (ASV) God promises Jacob that his enemies will be vanquished, and that Joseph will be healed. Subsequent passages promises Jacob that his descendants "shall be my people, and I will be your God.."[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Hosea 6:1: "Come, and let us return unto Jehovah; for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up." (ASV)[/FONT]


The same for the NT:


[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Matthew 7:7-11: "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, who, if his son shall ask him for a loaf, will give him a stone; or if he shall ask for a fish, will give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father who is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" (ASV)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Matt 21:22: "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (ASV)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Mark 16:18 "they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." (ASV) This passage appears to be a forgery. They are verses not written by the author of the Gospel of Mark but added by an unknown, later editor.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]John 15:7: "If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish and it will be given you. This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples." (ASV)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]James 5:14-15: "Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him." (ASV) This appears to be a guarantee of recovery for anyone who goes through a specific religious ritual, led by elders from his church. Not only healing would be automatically accomplished, but the formerly ill person would have his sins forgiven.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Romans 8:32 "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?" (ASV)[/FONT]

If your going to condemn any person who uses B/C, seems to me that you need to condemn anybody who goes to the doctor for any type of healing also? I mean if your going to be really technical about it all.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would think this is an argument?

I really do want you to answer this question, please.

Why are you equating pregnancy and fertility which are gifts of God, with illness and disease?

We have illness and diseases, and we even die physically in this life due to original sin, it's a consequence of OS that our Lord chose to leave us with.

Our Lord in his generosity has given us many cures to many illnesses over the ages but eliminating His gift of pregnancy and fertility isn't one of them. That comes from man, not God.

Again, how are you equating B/C and surgery with 'cures' to a disease?

Fertility and pregnancy isn't a diseases. They are not part of our original sin, they are gifts from God and you want to equate them with sin, death and illness? Why?

We shouldn't be treating them like an illness that needs a cure.

I know you haven't been open to any of what Theresa and myself have been saying, but think about for one minute. You are treating the natural beautiful gift we call pregnancy and fertility as if it's the enemy.

Yes, due to OS we have to deal with medical complications that will put a woman at risk but we, especially Christians have to find ways to minimize the medial complications with out compromising the integrity of the gift God gave to us.

NFP has so far been our best solution to a women's dilemma. It respects the martial act, it respects a women, it respects God's gift of life and fertility.

This is what good Stewardship of the gifts God gave us is. It's what having dominion over everything means. To keep in tact the good and to treat the bad.

We are treat the condition that puts a woman at risk. We do not attack the gift of God which is pregnancy and fertility.

Try to think about this, this argument we are 'treating' pregnancy and fertility as if it were a disease, IS the same mentality the abortionist have. They treat the gift of a child as if it's the problem, as if it's the culprit, as if it is what needs to be attacked so a woman can "live."

I pray you will go to the Lord with this in prayer and not just shrug off what we have to say because I do feel this is a very important issue.

Let me also ask you, the couple in Arkansas who have 16 children... they aren't catholic, they are bible only Christians, they believe the bible does not support ABC and sterilization. What do you make of them?

 

[Uphill Battle]

you could have fooled me. Everyone seems to think their view is THE view and no, Protestant have no biblical support to take chemicals and use surgery to alter their body.

But we are a little different- we ourselves do not speak infallibly but since we speak what Christ's Church teaches us to be true, we know what was say is true.

Again, we have to look at what the bible DOES say, not what it doesn't. Why are you typing on a computer? Does the bible say you can? then why are you doing it? Argument that the bible doesn't say we can do something is falicious.

for instance.... where does the bible say Mary was sinless?

You can't use the "bible doesn't have to say it" for one issue and "where is it in the bible" for another.

 

[UberLutheran]

you wouldn't care to elaborate?

It's the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

The RCC teaches that all conjugal acts between married people, be they RCC or not, must leave open the possibility of procreation.

The RCC can say this because the RCC teaches that the Pope holds complete authority over the Church — including those who are not Roman Catholic or who do not recognize the authority of the Pope.

It's kind of like — 1517 never even happened!

 

[ParsonJefferson]

It's the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

The RCC teaches that all conjugal acts between married people, be they RCC or not, must leave open the possibility of procreation.

The RCC can say this because the RCC teaches that the Pope holds complete authority over the Church — including those who are not Roman Catholic or who do not recognize the authority of the Pope.

It's kind of like — 1517 never even happened!

EXACTLY.

It is the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church - NOT the teachings of the Bible.

"Never-mind what the BIBLE says, the CHURCH teaches this!"

 

[ParsonJefferson]

It seems that some need to read the book:

Architects of the Culture of Death
Donald De Marco and Benjamin Wiker . .

there are some not too pretty and sordid details that are simply too gross to mention . .. but when people speak so cavalierly of sterilization and contraception as possibly viable options, I wonder if they would do so if they knew some of what is contained in this book regarding our history for the last 100 years . . .

It is really appalling to me how some are promoting ideas these architechs of the culture of death promoted . . .




.

And, quite frankly, I think that some people need to start reading the Bible before condemning certain things as "sin" and "marital sodomy."

Sharing opinions is one thing, standing in the place of God and raining down judgment is quite another.

 

[LightDancer]

It's the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

The RCC teaches that all conjugal acts between married people, be they RCC or not, must leave open the possibility of procreation.

The RCC can say this because the RCC teaches that the Pope holds complete authority over the Church — including those who are not Roman Catholic or who do not recognize the authority of the Pope.

It's kind of like — 1517 never even happened!

So women after menopause then should not have sex according to this doctrine of the RCC. Correct?

::sarcasm::

 

[ParsonJefferson]

I don't see the rational for sterilization because a wife's life may be at risk.

You are closing your self off to life permanently. You are not trusting God to care for you both and you are just acting out of fear.

Why the surgery, why can't one trust God? Use the natural way God made the human body and put everything else under His providence?

What is so horrible wrong about that?

Seeing how the Orthodox believes in remarriage after divorce, what if a divorce were to happen? Oh but wait, you made yourself sterile.

What if your wife died from something else? you would be free then to marry, oh but you'd be sterile.

The ironic thing here, to me, is that YOU are not "trusting God" either. You're practicing birth control!


If my wife were to die (we've now been married nearly 25 years), and I were to remarry, I would not want to start over with more babies of my own. But even if I did want to start over, vasectomies are reversible. Not a problem.

So you practice YOUR preferred form of birth control, I'll practice mine. We're BOTH practicing birth control. The difference is that I'm not arrogant enough to call somebody else's form of birth control a "sin" and "marital sodomy." And that completely apart from ANY Biblical authority.

 

[Benedicta00]

The RCC can say this because the RCC teaches that the Pope holds complete authority over the Church — including those who are not Roman Catholic or who do not recognize the authority of the Pope.

No, this is a false statement. I think you should retract it for the sake of not baring a false witness against us. It disturbs our peace to read statements about our faith that arent true.

We believe it because we believe God was clear in both the old and the new testament with regards to the sanctity of life.

Don't you believe in the the sanctity of life?

We view being open to the possibility of new life is respecting the sanctity of life even if God (not man) has closed the womb. Our hearts should then be open to life if a miracle of such should occur.

I honestly do not see why other Christians would find fault with our beliefs and how we view that all life, even potential life is sacred.

 

[Uphill Battle]

No, this is a false statement. I think you should retract it for the sake of not baring a false witness against us. It disturbs our peace to read statements about our faith that arent true.

We believe it because we believe God was clear in both the old and the new testament with regards to the sanctity of life.

Don't you believe in the the sanctity of life?

We view being open to the possibility of new life is respecting the sanctity of life even if God (not man) has closed the womb. Our hearts should then be open to life if a miracle of such should occur.

I honestly do not see why other Christians would find fault with our beliefs and how we view that all life, even potential life is sacred.

I find no fault for you to believe thusly. I find fault in proclaiming is sin for everone else, with no biblical support for it.

Besides, it's semantical to state you are "open" to new life.... using NFP, you are every much trying to avoid pregnancy as those whom are using a more effective method. That's your choice, but it is attempting to avoid pregnancy nonetheless.

 

[LightDancer]

No, this is a false statement. I think you should retract it for the sake of not baring a false witness against us. It disturbs our peace to read statements about our faith that arent true.

We believe it because we believe God was clear in both the old and the new testament with regards to the sanctity of life.

Don't you believe in the the sanctity of life?

We view being open to the possibility of new life is respecting the sanctity of life even if God (not man) has closed the womb. Our hearts should then be open to life if a miracle of such should occur.

I honestly do not see why other Christians would find fault with our beliefs and how we view that all life, even potential life is sacred.

Septic shock almost leads to certain death. There is very little cure for it, if they can do anything at all. Septicemia is very dire.

Therefore, that's not holding life sacred.