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Would it be sin?!?

Did this couple sin in their actions?

  • No, of course not.

  • Yes, it is still sin.

  • Don't know/other (please specify.)


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Benedicta00

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don't worry, didn't think she was saying that.

Just pointing out that a Christian CAN take action, using the wisdom (or for some of us, the lack therof!) God provided.
we can not use wisdom to commit an offense against God.

Using your logic than abortion is right- stem cell research is too.

We also made the Atomic bomb- should we use it just because God gave us the wisdom to make one?
 
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DeaconDean

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To engage in purposefully sterile sex is the equivalant of marital sodomy.

It is a crime against nature and God.


.

I would like to see where that is in the scriptures.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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Okay, here's where I'm calling the bluff.

I want Book, Chapter and Verse where the Bible says that it's a crime against God to have sex that doesn't result in pregnancy - or that cannot result in pregnancy.

And make no mistake about it: I'm talking about the Bible, not more man-made rules and laws of the RCC.

I'm in full agreement there.

I'm gonna play the Missouri card here: Show me.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Lets take another example. In Africa, children are dying of starvation by the droves. Birth control is not practiced in the 3rd world countries, for the most part.

Now, given this fac, would you say God would prefer the starvation of children, or the prevention of pregnancy?


So you are advocating violating God's command and engage in the sin of contraception because children are dying of starvation?

Your logic has one huge gaping hole in it, besides the other arguments I would bring to bear:

If they can't get food to those people, how are they going to get contraceptives to those people?

You are raising a red herring . .a totally invalid argument.

Children are starving because of the selfishness of people and nations with plenty. Not because they lack contraceptives. . . The world has the ability to end their starvation tomorrow . . but the world refuses to act in such a manner. The world is wrapped in a culture of death and does not value these lives, just as those who practice contraceptive sex do not value the lives that could have been and that they possibly created but were aborted by the contraceptives they used.

But this goes to a whole 'nother level . . .

Who are we to play God and decide who lives and who dies?

These are souls, precious to God. You would deny them life so they would not have to suffer.

This is so like the 21st century mindset of the West to seek comfort and personal happiness at all costs . . to avoid suffering at all costs . .

Sorry . . the pursuit of happiness at the expense of life is not God's call to us . .

God's call to us is to take up our cross (suffering), deny ourselves (seeking our own pleasure and happiness), and follow him . . .


.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Thats what they were made for, but in some cases, such as mine, they are used as medicine (though I am celibate so its not a problem).

When they are used as a necessary medication for a health problem, even if you were not celibate, but in a proper marriage, you would not be sinning as the intent is not to prevent life, but to treat another condition and the prevention of life is an unintended consequence, much like one having to have their uterus removed because of cancer, etc . . .

It is what is in the heart, the intentions of the heart that make something sin . . .


.
 
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thereselittleflower

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I'm in full agreement there.

I'm gonna play the Missouri card here: Show me.

God Bless

Till all are one.

The Missouri card . . . The proverbial Missouri Man . .

I need to find that book that describes the Missouri Man so well . . I am married to one . :D

It is quite enlightening!


.
 
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DeaconDean

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The Missouri card . . . The proverbial Missouri Man . .

I need to find that book that describes the Missouri Man so well . . I am married to one . :D

It is quite enlightening!


.

MO.gif


As shown in the lisence plate:

Show me.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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Uphill Battle

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we can not use wisdom to commit an offense against God.

Using your logic than abortion is right- stem cell research is too.

We also made the Atomic bomb- should we use it just because God gave us the wisdom to make one?
nooooo..... obviously not, as abortion would be clearly violating Gods law.

Ditto using atomic bombs.
 
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Uphill Battle

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So you are advocating violating God's command and engage in the sin of contraception because children are dying of starvation?
Your logic has one huge gaping hole in it, besides the other arguments I would bring to bear:
If they can't get food to those people, how are they going to get contraceptives to those people?
sigh..... It isn't about PRACTICE, it's an example. I advocate (or at least, do not condemn, I'm not a placard waver) contraception as it isn't a biblical mandate not to use it.

However, you are flying right over the point of the example. Not the preponderance of how to get them condoms, but in the attitude that it is better to have starving children, than to prevent pregnancy. This is barbaric.

TLF said:
You are raising a red herring . .a totally invalid argument.
Description of Red Herring


A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:
  1. Topic A is under discussion.
  2. Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
  3. Topic A is abandoned.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because merely changing the topic of discussion hardly counts as an argument against a claim.

learn what Red Herring is, before accusing of it.
TLF said:
Children are starving because of the selfishness of people and nations with plenty. Not because they lack contraceptives. . . The world has the ability to end their starvation tomorrow . . but the world refuses to act in such a manner. The world is wrapped in a culture of death and does not value these lives, just as those who practice contraceptive sex do not value the lives that could have been and that they possibly created but were aborted by the contraceptives they used.
I know why there is starvation, I don't need a lesson. All starvation is due to greed. However, the african example isnt even needed, there is plenty of starvation right here at home. The individual living in the country is unable to force the government, nor the people to take care of them. They may already be living with hunger and want. But God will turn his face from them from adding another mouth to feed in an already untenable situation!

TLF said:
But this goes to a whole 'nother level . . .

Who are we to play God and decide who lives and who dies?
These are souls, precious to God. You would deny them life so they would not have to suffer.
This is so like the 21st century mindset of the West to seek comfort and personal happiness at all costs . . to avoid suffering at all costs . .
Sorry . . the pursuit of happiness at the expense of life is not God's call to us . .
God's call to us is to take up our cross (suffering), deny ourselves (seeking our own pleasure and happiness), and follow him . . .
I find it wildly Ironic that the Well fed and comfortable talk about suffering, and ascribe that the poor should just shut up and suffer, as it is we are called to do. I am certain perspective would change with hunger at the door.
 
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Benedicta00

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Thats what they were made for, but in some cases, such as mine, they are used as medicine (though I am celibate so its not a problem).
right.

when they are "treating" fertility as if it's a problem, then they are contraceptives.
 
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Benedicta00

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When they are used as a necessary medication for a health problem, even if you were not celibate, but in a proper marriage, you would not be sinning as the intent is not to prevent life, but to treat another condition and the prevention of life is an unintended consequence, much like one having to have their uterus removed because of cancer, etc . . .

It is what is in the heart, the intentions of the heart that make something sin . . .


.
I don't know about that... the type can not be an abortifant potential. But I don't think, well... I know, one can't use B/C pills even in marriage that has a good intent.

If they have to use B/C pills then abstinence is in order until the problem is treated.
 
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Benedicta00

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MO.gif


As shown in the lisence plate:

Show me.

God Bless

Till all are one.
deacon,

Please show me where in the bible God said it's okay for us to take powerful chemicals and use surgery to change the way he designed our body to work?

Don't you find it odd, even a little, that God would make a female only fertile less than 2 weeks out of the month?

If God did that, then why do we need to improve on what he did and make ourselves infertile permanently?

I do not see in the bible God giving us that power to abuse our body in that way.
 
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Benedicta00

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nooooo..... obviously not, as abortion would be clearly violating Gods law.

Ditto using atomic bombs.
which is why sterilizing oneself, whether that be for a month with drugs or for life with the knife, is also a sin.

Using medical science to change the way God made your body is no different then a person who uses prescription drugs to get high and not to treat a actually illness.

God gave us dominion over this world but he did not give us a license to abuse it.

Your argument is one of license. It's not one of God given freedom. Just because we have the brains to, does not mean we can.
 
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Benedicta00

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Children are starving because of the selfishness of people and nations with plenty. Not because they lack contraceptives. . .

I heard on the news that Hillary Clinton has the potential to raise half a billion dollars in the private sector for her campaign.

If we were willing to give that kind of money away to these countries, we could change them tomorrow.

But instead we want to give it to "us" through the politicians so they can make laws that give us what we want.

I believe with all my heart when Jesus returns, we are going to hear about the starving children in other countries and he will not be complaining why didn't get them contraceptives?

We could saved the whole world from starving by the next sunrise, if we're willing. When Jesus returns, that won't go down good.
 
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Benedicta00

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contraception as it isn't a biblical mandate not to use it.

Put me together the biblical argument that says you can take drugs and use surgery for the sole purpose to change the way he made your body to work?

To take a working organ that God design to work, and to on purpose break it so it won't work anymore.

You don't see that has slapping God in his face? I sure do.
 
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W

WalkingforHim

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If they have to use B/C pills then abstinence is in order until the problem is treated.

No they don't, it's not in the Bible.

Please show me where in the bible God said it's okay for us to take powerful chemicals and use surgery to change the way he designed our body to work?

No, show us where the Bible says that using BC is a sin.

Using medical science to change the way God made your body is no different then a person who uses prescription drugs to get high and not to treat a actually illness.

So, it's immoral to operate on a baby with a clept lip because that's obviously how God made him? Strange.

Your argument is one of license. It's not one of God given freedom. Just because we have the brains to, does not mean we can.

Of course it does, otherwise it would be in the Bible that we can't.

Put me together the biblical argument that says you can take drugs and use surgery for the sole purpose to change the way he made your body to work?

No, show us where the Bible says contraceptives are a sin.

Of course you can't do this, which is why you asking us to prove something rediculous.

To take a working organ that God design to work, and to on purpose break it so it won't work anymore.

So, it's best to get you wife in a pregnacy that might kill her as opposed to having an operation that will save her life?

Hell, if that's your view, just shoot her and go out and marry a healthy girl, since her life ismeaningless to you anyway.

You don't see that has slapping God in his face? I sure do.

Yea, just like fixing a clept lip, huh. I bet those docs are going straight to hell.
 
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