Would God give us an indication when Satan is chained?

[FreeinChrist]

Job and Peter portray Satan as a stalking lion bent on finding prey. It is important to see that Satan stalks among us. But the ministry of Christ on the cross and his session to the throne of God founded a new order. It may be helpful to extend the analogy of the stalking lion. Imagine a den so constructed that one can walk on a path among the lions in the den safely. The den design puts barriers between you and the animals. But not all parts of the den are safe! The barriers are effective only so long as you stay on the path where no lion can harm you! But suppose that an exhausted animal keeper at the day’s end is tempted to take a shortcut. It would not stray far from the path, and it would make the walk much shorter and far easier. And the lion seems quiet...sleepy.

I can see that you went to alot of work here, Covenant Heart....but I believe you are missing the point of the thread.
As you stated - "It is important to see that Satan stalks among us."

So he isn't chained and shut in the abyss, which will also be sealed over. He is still roaming the earth, devouring who he can.
Yes, we who are in Christ are protected by the Holy Spirit. But he can still cause problems.

A former member of our church has been a missionary in Africa for some time now. He had been presenting the gospel in Chad - a predominantly Moslem country. They had a wonderful response.

Now Satan must have been very unhappy....for the list of things that occurred as they traveled to another site shows that Satan was trying....without success...to kill them. Two car accidents, held at gunpoint, a 'wind' that knocked the car off the road..injuries....

No, Satan was not successful.
But he certainly is not chained in the abyss at this time. Nor was he in Paul and Peter's time either.

 

[mylene]

mylene, I already have the scriptural answer in Rev. 19 and 20.

You see, as Paul and Peter both wrote of Satan as roaming the earth and causing problems, it is clear that Satan was not bound in the pit, being shut in and sealed over, at the first advent. Yet h is bound during the 1000 years....so, we are not in the 1000 years.

I asked those questions to make a point, mostly.

And we know Rev 20 does not follow after Rev 19

In much the same way as Rev 16:14 is Armageddon of later Rev 19

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Rev 16 is placed in reverse order since Rev 19 speaks of an event described earlier in Rev 16,
Rev19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.


How deep is a pit with no bottom ?

 

[FreeinChrist]

And we know Rev 20 does not follow after Rev 19

ahh...no we don't.

In much the same way as Rev 16:14 is Armageddon of later Rev 19

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Rev 16 is placed in reverse order since Rev 19 speaks of an event described earlier in Rev 16,
Rev19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

I don't see anything that can be called reverse order. What I see is is the 7 vial judgements described in Rev. 16....and then a switch to a different perspective in Rev. 19. The Second Coming occurs to put down the beast and his armies.

So we know when Satan is bound, thrown into a bottomless pit, shut in the bottomless pit, and and is sealed in the bottomless pit. It is when after being thrown down on the earth, he gives power to the Antichrist for 42 months. Beast fails, Satan (the dragon) is chained, and shut in the pit.

 

[Lady Goodnews]

I can see that you went to alot of work here, Covenant Heart....but I believe you are missing the point of the thread.
As you stated - "It is important to see that Satan stalks among us."

So he isn't chained and shut in the abyss, which will also be sealed over. He is still roaming the earth, devouring who he can.
Yes, we who are in Christ are protected by the Holy Spirit. But he can still cause problems.

A former member of our church has been a missionary in Africa for some time now. He had been presenting the gospel in Chad - a predominantly Moslem country. They had a wonderful response.

Now Satan must have been very unhappy....for the list of things that occurred as they traveled to another site shows that Satan was trying....without success...to kill them. Two car accidents, held at gunpoint, a 'wind' that knocked the car off the road..injuries....

No, Satan was not successful.
But he certainly is not chained in the abyss at this time. Nor was he in Paul and Peter's time either.

Hi FreeinChrist,

I believe YOU missed the point, of Covenant Heart "post." You have described EXACTLY what was expressed!

Thanks for that wonderful testimonial, we sincerely pray for the safety and blessings of those and ALL Missionaries and their labor of love in the work of the Lord.

Lady Goodnews

 

[FreeinChrist]

No...I didn't miss the point. I believe that it is inconsistent to beleive that Satan is bound chained, and shut in the bottomless pit, which is sealed over...and then to also believe that Satan is roaming the earth.

 

[mylene]

No...I didn't miss the point. I believe that it is inconsistent to beleive that Satan is bound chained, and shut in the bottomless pit, which is sealed over...and then to also believe that Satan is roaming the earth.

Simple.... you would not have the courage to disagree with Christ if He said

otherwise.

I am prepared to tell Christ that Satan is chained. I hope you are prepared to put forward your view to him as well. Otherwise you are merely speculating.

Your faith in your stance is partial and uncertain, since you would not be able to put forward your views in a verbal exchange regarding this issue with Christ.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Simple.... you would not have the courage to disagree with Christ if He said

otherwise.

I am prepared to tell Christ that Satan is chained. I hope you are prepared to put forward your view to him as well. Otherwise you are merely speculating.

Your faith in your stance is partial and uncertain, since you would not be able to put forward your views in a verbal exchange regarding this issue with Christ.

mylene, your post makes no sense. And you should support your position without trying to make commentary on my faith. That shows weakness on your part.

Obviously, you do not view the chaining of Satan in a pit for 1000 year as a literal event. I do. I believe that when Christ physically returns, defeats the AC and false prophet and has Satan thrown into a pit for 1000 years - literal years - and then Christ fulfills prophecy about a kingdom on earth from Jerusalem.

My faith that this will be so is far from "partial and uncertain" -a comment from you that truly ...well, let's just say that I am offended by your comment and think you are passing judgment. Are we supposed to question the faith of other Christians in this forum?


If anyone's 'faith' is 'partial and uncertain', it is likely those who spiritualize the 1000 years, the chaining of Satan....and pretend Satan is chained now in pit and not working in this world.

That Jesus rendered Satan powerless over death, and that Satan has no power on us - unless we let him - is a separate issue from the chaining of Satan in the Abyss, where he is shut in and sealed and cannot decieve.
As the Second coming has not occurred yet - we know Satan is not chained in the Abyss yet.

 

[Linda8]

Simple.... you would not have the courage to disagree with Christ if He said

otherwise.

I am prepared to tell Christ that Satan is chained. I hope you are prepared to put forward your view to him as well. Otherwise you are merely speculating.

Your faith in your stance is partial and uncertain, since you would not be able to put forward your views in a verbal exchange regarding this issue with Christ.

I guess that is what separates the left hand side from the right hand side..

Those who can say it to Christ , and those who may wish to use fancy

arguments...

It has been easy up till now to say.. well , this is what the Bible said etc..

Can you tell Christ otherwise?

 

[FreeinChrist]

I guess that is what separates the left hand side from the right hand side..

Those who can say it to Christ , and those who may wish to use fancy

arguments...

It has been easy up till now to say.. well , this is what the Bible said etc..

Can you tell Christ otherwise?

So now you folks are saying we are to say, "Satan is chained" to be saved?

Honestly, I have to wonder at what hermenuetics people use to get to their conclusions, and where the fanciful ideas come from.


Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut {it} and sealed {it} over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

The above passage is not some allegorical or metaphoical reference to the salvation of each soul. It is a future event - where Satan is chained by an angel, unable to deceive the nations.

Christ defeated death at the cross...and therefore rendered Satan powerless over death. However he was still roaming the earth in Paul and Peter's day....and don't you think they were saved? Satan still hindered Paul..and wasn't he saved? That Satan hindered Paul does not imply that Paul was faithless in some way...just that Satan is trying to work against God.

Yet, there are those who insist there is some difference between those who were saved in Paul and Peter's day, and those who are saved today.

 

[parousia70]

That Jesus rendered Satan powerless over death, and that Satan has no power on us - unless we let him - is a separate issue from the chaining of Satan in the Abyss, where he is shut in and sealed and cannot decieve.

So your claim is that once Satan IS chained and in the abyss, even unbelievers will enjoy victory over his power?

 

[Linda8]

So now you folks are saying we are to say, "Satan is chained" to be saved?

Honestly, I have to wonder at what hermenuetics people use to get to their conclusions, and where the fanciful ideas come from.


Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut {it} and sealed {it} over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

The above passage is not some allegorical or metaphoical reference to the salvation of each soul. It is a future event - where Satan is chained by an angel, unable to deceive the nations.

Christ defeated death at the cross...and therefore rendered Satan powerless over death. However he was still roaming the earth in Paul and Peter's day....and don't you think they were saved? Satan still hindered Paul..and wasn't he saved? That Satan hindered Paul does not imply that Paul was faithless in some way...just that Satan is trying to work against God.

Yet, there are those who insist there is some difference between those who were saved in Paul and Peter's day, and those who are saved today.

Paul is not Christ .
Do not put words in our mouths.

You firmly believe Satan is not chanined and you must be prepared to tell Christ directly. Please indicate whether you can tell him.

You may leave Paul out of this , for that time and place is beyond us.

Satan was roaming over 1800 years ago and that has nothing to do with the year 2004.


Did Paul die last year? No.. they lived over 1800 years ago.

I am not impressed with Satan's roamings over 1700 years ago.

That plays no role in any analysis of Satan today .

 

[FreeinChrist]

Now parousia - you know my view.

When Satan is chained, it will be the Millennial reign of Christ. Only believers enter that millennium.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Paul is not Christ .
Do not put words in our mouths.

Your post made no more sense than mylene's. Why be so cryptic in your responses?

You firmly believe Satan is not chanined and you must be prepared to tell Christ directly. Please indicate whether you can tell him.

You are making a nonpoint. A very nonsensical comment.
Nor do you back it up with scripture. My belief is based on scripture. Your viewpoint....as cryptic as it is, is not.

As for what I have to tell Christ - I already have repented, believed and asked Him into my heart. I tell Him lots of stuf - I don't have to let Him know when Satan is chained....He told us in Revelation. It happens after the Second Coming. And Satan is chained by by an angel....

You may leave Paul out of this , for that time and place is beyond us.

Satan was roaming over 1800 years ago and that has nothing to do with the year 2004.

Did Paul die last year? No.. they lived over 1800 years ago.

I am not impressed with Satan's roamings over 1700 years ago.

That plays no role in any analysis of Satan today .

And none of that makes any sense. None. And yes it DOES matter that Satan was roaming in Paul and Peter's time - it matters VERY much. For Paul writes this:

Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual {forces} of wickedness in the heavenly {places.}
This is as applicable to us today as it was in Paul's day. apparently you don't think this scripture applies...or else why would you want me to leave Paul and Peter out of it - I assume that means their writings too, even though it is scrpture inspired by God?
Satan is still roaming the earth today, and has not stopped influencing nations. Nor has the Second coming occurred yet. So we still need to do this:

Jam 4:7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

I don't know what to think of your views, Linda. In another thread in this forum you wrote:

"So if you have been born, you would not know you have resurrected until the time of the revelation of Christ's mystery. "

"We again have no knowledge of whether the souls given to infants just before they start breathing, is a soul that is completely spiritually new to earth."

"How can one confirm whether he/she has not had a body that died before?"

I was wondering if you would elaborate on those statements.

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Some people won't believe Satan is roaming around, unless they see him with their own two eyes, dressed in a red suit, with a pitch forks in his hand.

Hey, that kinda resembles doubting Thomas.

It also sounds like Santa Claus.

 

[mylene]

- I don't have to let Him know when Satan is chained....He told us in Revelation. It happens after the Second Coming. And Satan is chained by by an angel

You did not add what your reaction would be if Christ did not agree

with your understood timing.

You have assumed your understanding is identical to Christ's timing of the chaining.

Please review carefully the meaning of the word angel in the Greek and Hebrew as well.

You are not in the position to assume anything about Christ's timing

so add your reaction when Christ tells you that He has ensured Satan's chaining already.

Kindly indicate how you would present your side of the case.

 

[Arc]

. He has been able to deceive the nations the past 2000 years. Look at out history!

Really?

Lets look at history:
Eph 2:11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)-- 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

So would being saved by Grace though faith in Christ be better than being decieved by satan leading to death?

Notice it says "without God in the world". So before Christ God was not even in the world! Well, of course God was in the world but the context of the passage makes that meaning clear. Just as now Satan in not in the world (because he's bound) in the same way God was not in the world before Christ. So that now since Christ's atonement God is "in the world" and satan is bound.

Point: If you say satan can't be bound because of what's happening then how could God have not been in the world? These are figures of speech.

The last point is look at history <2,000 years. Many are now saved by Grace were before Christ gentiles had no hope. I would call that a great triumph! If your concern is that people still suffer, then I point you to Paul:

Romans 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

 

[Arc]

Some people won't believe Satan is roaming around, unless they see him with their own two eyes, dressed in a red suit, with a pitch forks in his hand.

Hey, that kinda resembles doubting Thomas.

It also sounds like Santa Claus.

That's right, we just need to keep our eyes out for a 7 headed lion prowling around. Shouldn't be hard to miss.

 

[Arc]

Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual {forces} of wickedness in the heavenly {places.}
Jam 4:7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

Good points! Why do we even have a chance against satan?

16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

Where do we get such power?

John 8: 31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
33They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"
34Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed... 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 51I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

Jesus is saying that anyone who sins is a slave of sin (bound to satan). But the Son can set us free from this bondage (Instead of a slave of sin we become slaves to righteousness, no longer bound to satan i.e. satan is bound)

There isn't a physical place where the spirit satan can be kept under physical lock and physical key. These terms pertain to peoples spiritual condition.

Romans 6:16
Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey–whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?...18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

 

[duster1az]

Arc writes:

There isn't a physical place where the spirit satan can be kept under physical lock and physical key. These terms pertain to peoples spiritual condition.

Your above quote is in error. The abyss is an actual place and shouldn't be spiritualized away as though it had no meaning in Scripture. It is the place of imprisionment referenced in (Luke 8:31), where the Lord confronted a man possessed with many demons. When confonted they pleaded with Christ not to send them there. They feared a literal confinement in a literal place. The abyss is also spoken of in (Rev. 9:1-2, 11), where evil spirits are seen leaving for a short period of time at the end of the Tribulation.

While it may or may not be true that angels can be tied down with chains purchased at Ace, they can be confined and made immobile and helpless (Dan. 10; Rev. 12). This is the idea behind (Rev. 20:1-3), Satan losing all freedom and power to act on this planet throughout the millennial period. It's poor exegesis to relate the abyss to a figurative curbing of Satan's power here on earth.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[FreeinChrist]

You did not add what your reaction would be if Christ did not agree
with your understood timing.
You have assumed your understanding is identical to Christ's timing of the chaining.
Please review carefully the meaning of the word angel in the Greek and Hebrew as well.

You are not in the position to assume anything about Christ's timing

so add your reaction when Christ tells you that He has ensured Satan's chaining already.

Kindly indicate how you would present your side of the case.

mylene - you haven't proved that I am wrong in my view. I based my view on scripture - not assumption, as you are trying to claim. And scripture shows that Satan was not bound in a the abyss in Peter and Paul's day, and as the Second Coming has NOT occurred yet, Satan is trying to hinder, is still the prince of the power of the air, and we still need to arm ourselves against spiritual forces - our true enemy.

So if Satan was not bound in those days, and could still decieve....when was he bound? Try to base it on scripture. All I see from you and Linda is cryptic statements.

What you are doing is trying to avoid answering the above questions, and trying to make this all out as 'my reaction'. That is pitiful. Stop trying to judge my faith, mylene.