Would a contradiction make the Bible not true?

[BigV]

Greetings all, if it could be shown that the Bible contains contradictions, or even a single contradiction, would that prove the Bible false?

Note, although we can discuss contradictions or specifics later on in the thread, I would like to understand the Christian position on this general concept. If there was a contradiction, would it cause you do change your faith?

 

[Sam91]

Greetings all, if it could be shown that the Bible contains contradictions, or even a single contradiction, would that prove the Bible false?

Note, although we can discuss contradictions or specifics later on in the thread, I would like to understand the Christian position on this general concept. If there was a contradiction, would it cause you do change your faith?

No it would only illustrate a failure in understanding, or translation issues.

It would not matter because my understanding does not save me. I could never understand God while on Earth. Proverbs 3:5-6

 

[BigV]

No it would only illustrate a failure in understanding, or translation issues.

It would not matter because my understanding does not save me. I could never understand God while on Earth. Proverbs 3:5-6

Thanks for your response. Would you say the same logic applies to other religious texts, such as the Quran or Bhadwad Ghitta?

 

[Mathetes66]

No, it would only illustrate a failure in understanding, or translation issues.

Great answer!

 

[Norbert L]

Greetings all, if it could be shown that the Bible contains contradictions, or even a single contradiction, would that prove the Bible false?

Note, although we can discuss contradictions or specifics later on in the thread, I would like to understand the Christian position on this general concept. If there was a contradiction, would it cause you do change your faith?

It would have to be a contradiction about the message of the Gospel, which you can read the whole thing front to back and you won't find such a thing occurring. What you do find are things along the line of, are there one or two angels at the empty tomb etc.

 

[BigV]

Great answer!

I'm glad you are listening to Rabbi Tovia Singer. Check out also what he says about Christians' use (or misuse) of the Hebrew Bible/Christian OT.

 

[BigV]

It would have to be a contradiction about the message of the Gospel, which you can read the whole thing front to back and you won't find such a thing occurring. What you do find are things along the line of, are there one or two angels at the empty tomb etc.

Ok, so for example, if one passage said you need to give up all your possessions to have eternal life and another said that people are saved by faith, apart from works, that would be a contradiction?

Or if we could find a passage where repentance from sin was required to be saved and another stating that it's faith and no additional effort, that would be a contradiction?

Or if it said about faith on one epistle and then only works in another. That would do it for you?

 

[A_Thinker]

Ok, so for example, if one passage said you need to give up all your possessions to have eternal life and another said that people are saved by faith, apart from works, that would be a contradiction?

Depends upon the settings ... whether pre-resurrection or post-resurrection ...

Or if we could find a passage where repentance from sin was required to be saved and another stating that it's faith and no additional effort, that would be a contradiction?

Or if it said about faith on one epistle and then only works in another. That would do it for you?

Depends upon the contexts.

Repentence is a part of faith (i.e. turning towards God).

Paul mainly speaks of justification with God (by faith), whereas James speaks of justification before men (by works) ... i.e. "Show ME your faith ...

 

[HTacianas]

Greetings all, if it could be shown that the Bible contains contradictions, or even a single contradiction, would that prove the Bible false?

Note, although we can discuss contradictions or specifics later on in the thread, I would like to understand the Christian position on this general concept. If there was a contradiction, would it cause you do change your faith?

"It is the faith of the Orthodox Church that the Bible, as the divinely-inspired Word of God in the words of men, contains no formal errors or inner contradictions concerning the relationship between God and the world. There may be incidental inaccuracies of a non-essential character in the Bible. But the eternal spiritual and doctrinal message of God, presented in the Bible in many different ways, remains perfectly consistent, authentic, and true."

The Orthodox Faith - Volume I - Doctrine and Scripture - The Bible - Word of God

 

[HTacianas]

Ok, so for example, if one passage said you need to give up all your possessions to have eternal life and another said that people are saved by faith, apart from works, that would be a contradiction?

Or if we could find a passage where repentance from sin was required to be saved and another stating that it's faith and no additional effort, that would be a contradiction?

Or if it said about faith on one epistle and then only works in another. That would do it for you?

The new testament does not say any of those things.

 

[muichimotsu]

And herein lies the major problem in apologetics, which is exercising confirmation bias and generally ignoring any possible contradictions with interpretations that make it as internally consistent as one could make it without ever bringing into question the fundamental question of the truth of claims in the supposedly inspired book. Even if we grant reliability, we don't go to truth merely because they weren't lying, because that's a false dilemma

Haven't even gotten into the internal Christian debate of Biblical inerrancy and infallibility, though it's certainly being hinted at

 

[Norbert L]

Ok, so for example, if one passage said you need to give up all your possessions to have eternal life and another said that people are saved by faith, apart from works, that would be a contradiction?

Or if we could find a passage where repentance from sin was required to be saved and another stating that it's faith and no additional effort, that would be a contradiction?

Or if it said about faith on one epistle and then only works in another. That would do it for you?

The Gospel is about the resurrection. How we are to express our life in response is up for interpretation. To use an analogy:

There are three Christians in a room. The first believes in Amillennialism, the second in Premillennialism and the third in Postmillennialism. Does that mean one of them is righteous and will go to Heaven while the other two are wicked and go to Hell or does it just mean that one is correct and the other two are wrong?

 

[Resha Caner]

Greetings all, if it could be shown that the Bible contains contradictions, or even a single contradiction, would that prove the Bible false?

Note, although we can discuss contradictions or specifics later on in the thread, I would like to understand the Christian position on this general concept. If there was a contradiction, would it cause you do change your faith?

Most Christians will see this question as baiting, even if you didn't intend to do that. As such, no one's going to bite. With that said, many of the examples non-Christians hold up as contradictions are actually a misunderstanding of Christianity, history, the text, or something else.

If you really want to hold a conversation accountable to logical rules such as non-contradiction, you're going to have to approach this from a systematics perspective.

Would you say the same logic applies to other religious texts, such as the Quran or Bhadwad Ghitta?

Yes, I apply the same criteria to other religious texts. Just as I think non-Christians should accept Christian interpretations of Christian texts, I think non-Muslims should accept Muslim interpretations of Muslim texts. I don't try to trick Muslims by pointing out to them what I think is wrong with the Koran. I have a discussion with them about what they believe.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Ok, so for example, if one passage said you need to give up all your possessions to have eternal life and another said that people are saved by faith, apart from works, that would be a contradiction?

Or if we could find a passage where repentance from sin was required to be saved and another stating that it's faith and no additional effort, that would be a contradiction?

Or if it said about faith on one epistle and then only works in another. That would do it for you?

It's a matter of seeing how these two answers work together, not that they lie in contradiction of one another.

Look at it this way, if I asked you if you stayed home today and you answered truthfully and said no, and left it at that you stated a truth if you spend a large portion of your day at work.

But if asked in a different way, and asked while you were home today what did you watch on tv, and you said I watched the news, that might also be true because before you went to work you saw a half hour of the news program..

And then what if both questions and answers were written down, and someone else read those questions and answers and said wow, one of these answers must therefore be a lie as the answers contradict one another..

Whereas in truth neither answer is untrue, (if you both spent the majority of your day at work and also watched the news) and neither answer lies in contradiction of one another... it's a matter of how the question was asked what the approach to the answer was..

So you have to see how both answers are correct, and uncontradictory to one another.

The Bible is the same way, people are writing from their specific angle. Works and Salvation through faith don't contradict - if your saved works will follow, if your not saved there are no works pleasing to God. It doesn't contradict that salvation is 1.) a work of God and 2) by Faith alone..

So you approach to the Bible as a whole is to see how it goes together seamlessly - not oh wow there are contradictions.

Also, in real life eye witnesses always always have different answers to what they saw and heard and experienced when they witnessed a crime or an event. A SURE way to know whether people got together and rehearsed what they were going to say to the police is if there are no differences in what they say... so when an Apostle has a slightly differing story it's perfectly normal, also, some differences are due to what perspective they feel necessary to stress, Jesus's genealogy through Mary or Joseph, works or faith, salvation or judgment, etc. etc. none contradict one another, its a matter of seeing how it fits together.

 

[Norbert L]

Haven't even gotten into the internal Christian debate of Biblical inerrancy and infallibility, though it's certainly being hinted at

Biblical inerrancy is another topic which makes for a lively discussion. I like to say that we actually did have a document that was written by God Himself however due to a set of unfortunate circumstances and events, Moses destroyed His writing.

The problem with infallibility is how much of the message contained in the text has been altered through the editorial process over the millennia. I believe it stands up exceptionally well and has recently become stronger by archeological additions to its' authenticity.

Dr. Peter Williams has given a response to Dr. Bart Ehrman criticisms about the NT authorship.

 

[BigV]

Most Christians will see this question as baiting, even if you didn't intend to do that.

could you give me a hypothetical example of what you would consider to be a contradiction?

 

[BigV]

Jesus's genealogy through Mary or Joseph,

there is no genealogy through Mary.

 

[Resha Caner]

could you give me a hypothetical example of what you would consider to be a contradiction?

Proposition 1: Seeing others in pain makes John sad.
Proposition 2: Hitting Jane causes her pain.
Conclusion: Seeing Jane hit makes John sad.

The statement, "John was not sad when Alan lost his job," can be proven a contradiction by demonstrating that losing his job caused Alan pain ...

... however, human behavior is not that simple. It's actually very possible John was sad when Jane was hit and John was not sad when Alan lost his job. Why? Because there are so many other conditionals necessary to explain the personality of a real person. Maybe John didn't like Alan. Maybe John and Alan were business competitors, so John considers the result fair game. Maybe John thought Alan's job was bad for his health, and despite the short term pain, he'll be better off in the long run. It goes on forever.

So ... good luck.

 

[Mathetes66]

"I'm glad you are listening to Rabbi Tovia Singer. Check out also what he says about Christians' use (or misuse) of the Hebrew Bible/Christian OT."

I have. However, when someone like Dr. Michael L. Brown debated him, he would no longer debate Dr. Brown because he also was fluent in biblical Hebrew & several other Semitic languages, as well as Greek & Aramaic & would point out Tovia Singer's errors & misinterpretations. Dr. Brown is recognized as one of the foremost authorities on the Tenakh & Jewish history & the NT.

Here is Dr. Brown confronting what Tovia Singer said later & hoped that he had forgotten what actually happened & was said concerning the debate vs. possible lying.

Here is the actual debate.

Here is another concerning Daniel 9 and Psalm 22

There is no genealogy through Mary.

The Genealogy of Jesus

 

[NBB]

Just a question, why you @BigV bother to make this threads?

One thing: i think the bible is true because i know Jesus, he can interact with people, and your attitude of sorts of "christianity is false because is not true and i know it" its just a little funny to me because of this. You could of be not more wrong.