worldly detachment vs. service

[FireDragon76]

Orthodox at times make it sound like detachment from the world is somehow itself salvific. I do not at all understand how this fits Jesus' ethics as presented in the Gospels, and it seems like this could be spiritually dangerous.

As Mother Maria pointed out, in the Last Judgment, she believed she would be judged by her works of mercy and not by her religious asceticism or religious obligations. Indeed, I believe she was correct and Jesus used this parable to show that the works God desires are corporal works of mercy, and not specifically religious piety or asceticism.

 

[ArmyMatt]

how do you define detachment from the world?

 

[ArmyMatt]

because it is salvific if it's what you are called to. and Orthodoxy is filled with examples of both going back to the OT. trying to make this an either/or thing is just as wrong as saying either/or to marriage vs monasticism.

 

[FireDragon76]

how do you define detachment from the world?

I don't know. Perhaps you could explain that. It's not something my religious community talks about in that way.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Following.

My thought (the reason I asked for clarification in the other thread) ... is that devoting oneself to others (hospitality, etc.) is in some sense the same as detachment from the world. Time Mary spends attending to others is time that could be spent doing what might please Mary herself, for example.

So Mary may not be fasting from food - giving up food - in that moment, but she may be giving up personal recreation.

And there are other similarities. But that's why I asked.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't know. Perhaps you could explain that. It's not something my religious community talks about in that way.

seeing God and neighbor before the self. ascetic discipline is not only going off in a cave somewhere and praying until you glow. for every St Gregory Palamas there is also a St Mary of Paris.

and if you don't know the term's definition, you should probably ask before saying you don't think it fits into the Lord's ethics.

 

[Kenny'sID]

and not specifically religious piety or asceticism.

Can we have a few example of that, including what most concerns you?

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't think there is a conflict really- it's down to a difference in terminology and perhaps the prominence we give to certain concepts. I just am curious how western monasticism is fundamentally different from yours, necessarily. We have Franciscan religious who are not that different from Mother Maria.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't think there is a conflict really- it's down to a difference in terminology and perhaps the prominence we give to certain concepts. I just am curious how western monasticism is fundamentally different from yours, necessarily. We have Franciscan religious who are not that different from Mother Maria.

if you don't think that, why start this thread implying that there is one?

 

[FireDragon76]

Because some things were not clear in my mind. You answered some questions and that helped clarify it in my mind.

 

[ArmyMatt]

fair enough, what else isn't clear?

 

[FireDragon76]

I do think sometimes worldly detachment can make people blind to giving wise advice. You wouldn't go to a car mechanic and expect advice on fixing a computer, for instance.

Our churches are accussed often of being worldly, but in our mind its often just about being involved in serving our neighbor. And how can we serve our neighbor if we don't understand where they are coming from? We are sinners also, and not omniscient, so it would be silly to go around as blind guides dictating to other people how best to remove the splinter in their own eye.

I told my pastor this many months ago, that I've come to realize the characterization of mainline Protestants as especially morally lax is not only contemptuous, but a kind of spiritual blindness.

 

[ArmyMatt]

well, unless the mechanic learned from an IT expert. both service and monastic detachment open you up to the theological expert in Christ. that is why when done properly, they don't oppose each other.

 

[Lukaris]

I do not think we inherently view other Christians as better or worse as Christians than ourselves. While we cannot share the Eucharist with the non Orthodox, it is according to the apostolic faith of the church we adhere. We must carefully discern but not judge other Christians.