Works Relation to Salvation

SabbathBlessings · Sep 6, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
Circumcision and sin offerings weren’t commandments?

“The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: no foreigner is to eat of it; but every man’s slave purchased with money, after you have circumcised him, then he may eat of it. A sojourner or a hired servant shall not eat of it. It is to be eaten in a single house; you are not to bring forth any of the flesh outside of the house, nor are you to break any bone of it. All the congregation of Israel are to celebrate this. But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it. The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.” Then all the sons of Israel did so; they did just as the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭12‬:‭43‬-‭50‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

I don’t have time to provide more evidence

A command is not commandments. It says its an ordinance. Not everything is a commandment Neh 9:13

God called the Ten including the Sabbath commandments and identifies them as a unit as “My commandments” i.e. the commandments of God Exo 20 Exo 20:6 and was personally written with His own finger like He did all His other commandments in this unit of Ten. This is God’s work His Testimony that no one is above Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18. God placed the Ten inside the ark of the covenant, not outside and they are revealed in heaven Rev 11:19 which is what the earthy temple was modeled after Hebrews 8:1-5

So also Deut 5:22 which demands that the TEN be considered as included in the "Commandments of God"
So then Jer 31:31-34 makes it clear that the TEN are included in the Law of God written on the heart.
And of course Heb 8:6-12 informs us that JESUS is the one speaking THE TEN at Sinai.

Gary K · Sep 6, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Looks to me like it is "everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem". Are you saying it was Jewish people who are the "all the nations which came against Jerusalem"?

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 14:17-18 - New King James Version

And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes...

www.biblegateway.com

Or are you thinking the passage has already been fulfilled, after the return from the Babylonian exile?

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 14:14-15 - New King James Version

Judah also will fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of all the surrounding nations Shall be gathered together: Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance. Such also shall be the plague On the horse and the mule, On the camel and the donkey, And on all the cattle that will be in those camps. So...

www.biblegateway.com

No. I am saying there was always a small remnant left of Jews every time they were conquered. There is two ways to read that text. Yours is by far the most common, but that doesn't mean my reading isn't correct.

As to the two passages you linked to, God makes conditional prophecies. Like the following.

2Ch_7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Leaf473 · Sep 6, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Where is the word feast in Isa 66:23- you are adding what is not there. Months were not named in scripture, how they kept track of the months is through the moon, so this is the language used in this scripture. New moon, means new month.

Why, in heaven, are we going up to worship God just once a month and once a week?

SabbathBlessings said:
Also, the Sabbath day is blessed by God and no man can reverse something God blessed. Once God blesses something like He did with the Sabbath commandment- man can't reverse Num 23:20 so you would need a thus saith the Lord for that. Most of the Sabbath scripture telling us to keep the Sabbath day holy Exo 20:8, the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27, the Sabbath is holy, blessed and sanctified by God Exo 20:11, the Sabbath is My holy day Isa 58:13, the Sabbath of the Lord thy God that is on the seventh day Exo 20:10, the day to honor God Isa 58:13 the Sabbath is a sign that shows God sanctifies us Eze 20:12 the Sabbath is a sign between God and His people Eze 20:20 everyone who does not defile the Sabbath join themselves unto the Lord Isa 56 and will continue for worship for all eternity Isa 66:22-23 all has a thus saith the Lord attached to these references and is a commandment of God. Thats some big shoes to fill to countermand so much of God's very own Words. Paul does not have authority to do this either and he didn't which is why there is a warning in scripture so many twist his words to their own destruction 2 Peter 3:16 and why Paul reinforces what Jesus said and told us keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1 Cor 7:19 and the Sabbath is a commandment of God

The context to Col 2:16 is in Col 2:13-17 KJV. The Sabbath is not an ordinance- it is a commandment of God personally written by God's own finger, not "handwritten" God blessed and made holy the Sabbath day- which is not the definition of contrary or against so obviously Col 2:16 is not referring to the weekly seventh day Sabbath as there is more than one sabbath in scripture and context fits the sabbath(s) ordinances that had to do with eating and drinking and pointed to Jesus who became our Sacrificial Passover Lamb, which was an ordinance. Exo 12:43 Instead of sacrificing animals in the NC we can go directly to Jesus for forgiveness of sins.

The Ten Commandments is what defines sin Romans 7:7 breaking one we break all James 2:10-12 and we should not cover our sins Proverbs 28:13 but confess them and turn to Jesus who helps us when we obey His commandments John 14:15-18 and changes us from the inside out so we want to keep God's commandments through love and faith. 1 John 5:3 Romans 3:31 Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21, not in them.

Leaf473 · Sep 6, 2023

Gary K said:
No. I am saying there was always a small remnant left of Jews every time they were conquered.

Sorry, I'm not following this. You're saying that Jewish people are some of the people out of the nations that came against Jerusalem?

Gary K said:
There is two ways to read that text. Yours is by far the most common, but that doesn't mean my reading isn't correct.

As to the two passages you linked to, God makes conditional prophecies. Like the following.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 6, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Why, in heaven, are we going up to worship God just once a month and once a week?

No of course not, just like we should worship God daily now, but that doesn't mean every day is 24/7 of worship like the Sabbath is.

Gary K · Sep 6, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Why, in heaven, are we going up to worship God just once a month and once a week?

That's ludicrous, Leaf. Just becauser the Bible says we will come together and worship every Sabbath you jump to the conclusion we're only going to worship God once a week? Seems to me you have a real antipathy towards the Sabbath commandment.

Leaf473 · Sep 6, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
No of course not, just like we should worship God daily now, but that doesn't mean every day is 24/7 of worship like the Sabbath is.

Why are we going up once a month and once a week in heaven, though? Why those particular times that we travel somewhere else in heaven?

Leaf473 · Sep 6, 2023

Gary K said:
That's ludicrous, Leaf. Just becauser the Bible says we will come together and worship every Sabbath you jump to the conclusion we're only going to worship God once a week? Seems to me you have a real antipathy towards the Sabbath commandment.

Well, it says that all flesh is going to "come". And apparently it's once a month and once a week. And sure that can be Sabbath and new moon or whatever. But why just once? Why the traveling?

BNR32FAN · Sep 6, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Why are you comparing the laws inside the ark of the covenant, personally written by God and spoken by God with some of the ceremonial laws and ordinances that are outside the ark as if they are the same.

So when God says that He commanded something that’s not a commandment?

Bob S · Sep 6, 2023

All you SDAs will not address IS 65 where it tells us in Heaven we will only live to be something over 100 years. It also tells us there will be sin in Heaven. Of course you don't believe IS 65, so why would you believe IS 66? Actually, in all of the posts on this thread denial has run rampant by you SDAs.

Gary K · Sep 6, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Well, it says that all flesh is going to "come". And apparently it's once a month and once a week. And sure that can be Sabbath and new moon or whatever. But why just once? Why the traveling?

It won't be just once. It will happen every week. Besides this is how we will travel.

Isa_40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Mat_22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Gary K · Sep 6, 2023

Bob S said:
All you SDAs will not address IS 65 where it tells us in Heaven we will only live to be something over 100 years. It also tells us there will be sin in Heaven. Of course you don't believe IS 65, so why would you believe IS 66? Actually, in all of the posts on this thread denial has run rampant by you SDAs.

Demonstrate your Biblical evidence that there will be sin in heaven.

Rev_21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

How is there going to be sin, as all sin causes pain, and there will be no more pain in heaven?

I've already posted this verse to you and yet you're willing to blatantly contradict it.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 6, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
So when God says that He commanded something that’s not a commandment?

It's a command (singular)

The Ten Commandments are commandment(s) plural so when we see the commandments of God, My commandments, His commandments Exo 20:6 which are all throughout the bible we know it includes this whole unit of Ten that God wrote and God spoke.

NewLifeInChristJesus · Sep 6, 2023

B Griffin said:
Interesting. We are actually not that far apart. I say our sinfulness is forgiven and you say He doesn't hold us accountable for our sinfulness. We end up in the same place concerning our sinfulness... it is not held against us.

Then why does it matter whether it is forgiven or it is not held against us?

12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. (1 Co 10:12–13)

These verses say plainly that God provides a "way of escape" with every temptation. This means that whenever you succumb to temptation, you also refuse to take the way of escape that God provided. How many times a day or week or month or year can a person observe this without concluding that the "free moral agent" decision-maker is himself corrupt and needs forgiveness for his own corruption. The fact is, there is no distance between us (the free moral agent decisioin-maker) and our own sinful flesh.

"And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." (Ro 8:10)

The free moral agent isn't all that good of a person if he chooses sin over and over and over again. He obviously hasn't been created according to God in true righteousness and holiness as has the new man.

Leaf473 · Sep 6, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
So when God says that He commanded something that’s not a commandment?

That's what I've heard from those who hold a partial law theology.

There's commands and commandments.
Also statutes, ordinances, judgments, probably others.

But when I've asked how one tells the difference, or for examples of each, I haven't received an answer.

Also note that the ten commandments are the 10 words in Hebrew

Leaf473 · Sep 6, 2023

Gary K said:
It won't be just once. It will happen every week. Besides this is how we will travel.

Okay... and why just once a month and once a week? Why do we need to travel to a certain place at those times?

Leaf473 · Sep 6, 2023

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 66:19-20 - New King James Version

I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. Then they...

www.biblegateway.com

Who are the gentiles in heaven? If we will have wings like eagles, why are they putting them on horses and camels. And who is the they that are putting them on?

Gary K · Sep 6, 2023

B Griffin said:
The free moral agent isn't all that good of a person if he chooses sin over and over and over again. He obviously hasn't been created according to God in true righteousness and holiness as has the new man.

Why do you toss out the power of God in relation to sin? It's like you desperately hold onto the idea that sin is more powerful than God. I don't understand why any Christian who loves God would denigrate Him like that. It makes Him the second most powerful force in the universe.

Gary K · Sep 6, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Okay... and why just once a month and once a week? Why do we need to travel to a certain place at those times?

Most likely because we will be traveling around the universe. Would you be content to sit in one place for eternity?

Gary K · Sep 6, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 66:19-20 - New King James Version

I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. Then they...

www.biblegateway.com

Who are the gentiles in heaven? If we will have wings like eagles, why are they putting them on horses and camels. And who is the they that are putting them on?

Why don't you look at the context of the passage? The context makes it plain to me that verses 19 and 20 refer to prophecies concerning the Gentiles and from verse 22 on is about heaven.

I really don't know why you would want to denigrate this other than an antipathy for the Sabbath.

Isa 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
Isa 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

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