works based salvation

[BNR32FAN]

Which Greek transcripts? There are many of them, and there is often disagreement about which is the most reliable.

Do you understand anything about translation? It's not simply translating from the source language to modern English. Koine Greek is vastly different from 21st Century English, and the cultures couldn't be more different. Competent translators must understand not only the nuances of the source language and the nuances of the destination language, but also what the words meant to those living almost two thousand years ago and what they mean today -- in many cases something vastly different.

Yes I understand the huge differences in the languages. Many Greek words cannot be accurately translated to just one English word because we don’t have a word that fully encompasses the definition of the Greek word. This has been one of the biggest reasons for mistranslations but another very big reason is the translators often translate verses to cater to their theology. The KJV is pretty bad about this.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ [clearly that's in the future], so that each of us may receive [clearly that's in the future] what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

Nope. That's the whole point. It's not in the Greek. Look it up yourself. It can be rendered a number of ways and one, the most popular, is to write it how the translators have. But it doesn't have to be written this way as I've already explained.

 

[klutedavid]

Yes I understand the huge differences in the languages. Many Greek words cannot be accurately translated to just one English word because we don’t have a word that fully encompasses the definition of the Greek word. This has been one of the biggest reasons for mistranslations but another very big reason is the translators often translate verses to cater to their theology. The KJV is pretty bad about this.

Further a lot of translators will follow tradition when they translate. That is what they are taught to do when they learn the Koine Greek. How have earlier translators handled that word or phrase?

 

[pescador]

Yes I understand the huge differences in the languages. Many Greek words cannot be accurately translated to just one English word because we don’t have a word that fully encompasses the definition of the Greek word. This has been one of the biggest reasons for mistranslations but another very big reason is the translators often translate verses to cater to their theology. The KJV is pretty bad about this.

There is also the importance of understanding the vast differences in culture. Translation is an art, one of the reasons to not just read one translation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Further a lot of translators will follow tradition when they translate. That is what they are taught to do when they learn the Koine Greek. How have earlier translators handled that word or phrase?

What word or phrase are you referring to?

 

[BNR32FAN]

There is also the importance of understanding the vast differences in culture. Translation is an art, one of the reasons to not just read one translation.

Which is why I hold the Eastern Orthodox in such high regard.

 

[pescador]

Nope. That's the whole point. It's not in the Greek. Look it up yourself. It can be rendered a number of ways and one, the most popular, is to write it how the translators have. But it doesn't have to be written this way as I've already explained.

Sorry but I respect the sincere commitment of the translators of many versions to be as unbiased as possible.

I'm not going to look it up in the Greek. a) There are many source documents and they don't all say the same thing. b) I am not qualified to translate from 1st Century Koine Greek into 21st Century American English. I learned a long time ago that people who aren't serious trained translators should not make statements about what the Bible means.

Why do you think that the 2nd Edition of the NET Bible has 58,506 translators' notes?

I'm not going to look it up in the Greek because I don't have a point to prove.

 

[pescador]

Which is why I hold the Eastern Orthodox in such high regard.

???

 

[BNR32FAN]

???

They’ve always been Greek scholars since the church was established. The church in Antioch established by Peter, Orthodox my friend.

 

[pescador]

They’ve always been Greek scholars since the church was established. The church in Antioch established by Peter, Orthodox my friend.

And..?

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Sorry but I respect the sincere commitment of the translators of many versions to be as unbiased as possible.

I'm not going to look it up in the Greek. a) There are many source documents and they don't all say the same thing. b) I am not qualified to translate from 1st Century Koine Greek into 21st Century American English. I learned a long time ago that people who aren't serious trained translators should not make statements about what the Bible means.

Why do you think that the 2nd Edition of the NET Bible has 58,506 translators' notes?

I'm not going to look it up in the Greek because I don't have a point to prove.

Fair enough. There are multiple ways the Greek can be translated into English. Like you say, there's a lot to it. It's not easy. All the more reason to be comfortable with some subjectivity.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The outcome of the judgment is death. Followed by the gift of life, His Spirit I.e. reconciliation. No longer separated from God but one in Spirit (2 Corinthians 5:5). We were all in the book of death before we were confronted by the gospel. We stood there at the judgement seat of Christ and were judged to death. But He came to us and breathed new life. Our names were written in Him, the Book of Life, the Word of God

I acknowledge nearly all translators have written 5:10 in the future tense, but its not there in the Greek. So once this text is removed from the future judgment arsenal we would have to go through Jesus' words delicately on their own account. For now I'll say that He often spoke of judgement with regards to the temple destruction in 70AD.

How do you deal with the subject of Paul’s chapter speaking about being away from the body which is clearly future whatever verb tense you decide it is? Absent from the body and present with the Lord is not present (for anyone reading this) not past (they can’t read this either) but clearly future? The chapter is full of talk if the future.

 

[klutedavid]

What word or phrase are you referring to?

The name that God revealed to Moses, 'YHWH', a Hebrew name.

The Jews are a very superstitious and refuse to utter the name of God. So the Jews never say or even write YHWH.

So in the Septuagint the Hebrew YHWH is translated as Lord.

So what do the English translators do with YHWH?

Nearly all translations will not use that direct name 'YHWH', the tetragramaton.

Rather they will follow tradition and translate YHWH as the title ‘Lord’

Most English Bibles use this option though as the result of long tradition. (Journal of Translation, Volume 1, Number 1 (2005) 47 Translating YHWH)

 

[YouAreAwesome]

How do you deal with the subject of Paul’s chapter speaking about being away from the body which is clearly future whatever verb tense you decide it is? Absent from the body and present with the Lord is not present (for anyone reading this) not past (they can’t read this either) but clearly future? The chapter is full of talk if the future.

I could try to answer this in a short sentence but I think a paraphrase might help. First however I'll provide a little more context so the chapter makes sense from this perspective. If a person dies today unsaved, they will face the judgment seat of Christ. Jesus is the eschaton. He is the final event of the divine plan for everyone. He stands outside of time and space. There is judgment ever looming on all people even right now for good or bad depending on our perspective. If we have a law perspective and desire to live under the cloud of condemnation, we can, but it's not the truth. Better, we have a grace perspective because Christ has done away with every speck of darkness and karma that stood against us.

I'll try to paraphrase 2 Corinthians 5:1-11,

We groan for our heavenly covering. A part of heaven is in us already for God has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. Therefore we are always confident knowing His Spirit is in us even though we are still here on earth. In some ways I would rather be only in heaven and not have one foot on earth. But either way our greatest desire is to please Him. For we all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, and receive our dues whether good or bad. We know what it is to stand before the Lord so we try to persuade others. What we are now is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.

Hopefully that makes more sense.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The name that God revealed to Moses, 'YHWH', a Hebrew name.

The Jews are a very superstitious and refuse to utter the name of God. So the Jews never say or even write YHWH.

So in the Septuagint the Hebrew YHWH is translated as Lord.

So what do the English translators do with YHWH?

Nearly all translations will not use that direct name 'YHWH', the tetragramaton.

Rather they will follow tradition and translate YHWH as the title ‘Lord’

Most English Bibles use this option though as the result of long tradition. (Journal of Translation, Volume 1, Number 1 (2005) 47 Translating YHWH)

Well YHWH has absolutely no meaning for English speakers and can’t even be read aloud. So to use it is to put it in gibberish. Might as well start using Hebrew words and letters everywhere rending the book completely useless.

 

[klutedavid]

Well YHWH has absolutely no meaning for English speakers and can’t even read it aloud. So to
use it is to put in gibberish. Might as well start using Hebrew words and letters everywhere rending the book completely useless.

It's a Hebrew name that does not directly translate into Lord. You can accept that translation if you wish but it pays to be mindful, that our translations are not perfect.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I could try to answer this in a short sentence but I think a paraphrase might help. First however I'll provide a little more context so the chapter makes sense from this perspective. If a person dies today unsaved, they will face the judgment seat of Christ. Jesus is the eschaton. He is the final event of the divine plan for everyone. He stands outside of time and space. There is judgment ever looming on all people even right now for good or bad depending on our perspective. If we have a law perspective and desire to live under the cloud of condemnation, we can, but it's not the truth. Better, we have a grace perspective because Christ has done away with every speck of darkness and karma that stood against us.

I'll try to paraphrase 2 Corinthians 5:1-11,

We groan for our heavenly covering. A part of heaven is in us already for God has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. Therefore we are always confident knowing His Spirit is in us even though we are still here on earth. In some ways I would rather be only in heaven and not have one foot on earth. But either way our greatest desire is to please Him. For we all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, and receive our dues whether good or bad. We know what it is to stand before the Lord so we try to persuade others. What we are now is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.

Hopefully that makes more sense.

Well I do understand your position although I think you are quite mistaken. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's a Hebrew name that does not directly translate into Lord. You can accept that translation if you wish but it pays to be mindful, that our translations are not perfect.

We know who He is and we know Jesus did not wanting us using the Hebrew word. He has other names in other languages, lots of them. We are to call him “Father.”

Want really pays to bear in mind that when a child calls his father by that man’s first name, he is refusing to honor his as father making the relationship not personal but common. It is dishonoring the father.

 

[pescador]

Well YHWH has absolutely no meaning for English speakers and can’t even be read aloud. So to use it is to put it in gibberish. Might as well start using Hebrew words and letters everywhere rending the book completely useless.

I'm glad that you're not into exaggeration! Most believers of all faiths understand YHWH, pronounced "yah-weh". Your last sentence is very strange! Rending the book completely useless? If you've ever read the Bible in Hebrew you wouldn't say something so obviously wrong.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

I'm glad that you're not into exaggeration! Most believers of all faiths understand YHWH, pronounced "yah-weh". Your last sentence is very strange! Rending the book completely useless? If you've ever read the Bible in Hebrew you wouldn't say something so obviously wrong.

Come on mate, you know what she means, a Hebrew bible for english speakers is useless for them.