Working out : Your Salvation

[Chaleb]

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You are "made free from sin"., if you are born again and not just water baptized and a religious law keeper.
So, if you are confessing sin, then what you are struggling with..... is sin consciousness, not sin.

Paul said' "i seen another law warring against ">..= "Inside me".
See that?
That is what is happening to you Reader...., because you are not in real faith., you are in the flesh.....the mind of the flesh. As that produced the confessing , sinning, repeat, failed discipleship, issue.

Paul wrote of these deceived believers....

"""O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth"""

""""Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit (born again), are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh (self effort -works, law keeping"" = self righteousness.

The ""flesh"" as Paul is showing you in those verses is that struggle you feel to try to be good and "Be like Christ", and you fail.
The reason is.... You can't do that and succeed.. ..and because its not possible to live holy by WILL POWER and striving to be good, ...what happens is....."the law is the power of sin". on you.

See that? The "curse of the Law" is that the more you strive to be SELF righteous..... trying to prove to God you are good by law keeping and commandment keeping, then your SELF righteousness enlists the law's dominion, as "the Power of sin is the Law and The Law is the power of SIN", enflames your carnality.
That is "the curse of the Law".

The good news for the Born again?

"you are not under the Law, but under GRACE"
"Jesus has redeemed the born again from the CURSE of THE LAW".
"Christ is the end of THE LAW....for righteousness, for all the born again".

This means that when a believer is trying to do good so that God will accept you and keep you saved... wrongly believing that this is Christian FAITH, then the Law is now empowering your carnality to be worse.
= Sin Consciousness.

"the harder i try, the worse it gets"... "oh wretched man that I AM... = (the carnal mind)...who will deliver me from this BODY (the flesh mind) of death"....

See that?
THAT....is Trying to keep the LAW,......its the same as trying to stay saved, or trying not to lose your salvation, as you are struggling to do that by SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS., and that is broken faith.

Self Righteousness, is the self willed THINKING... regarding trying to MAKE SELF RIGHT WITH GOD BY WORKS, Law, commandment keeping...
That struggle is this......>"that which i would do, i cant do, and that which i hate i do".
To stop that, you have to end trying to be accepted by God based on your behavior(Law Keeping) (commandment keeping)(good works) and change your mind from that to..>"i am always accepted by God, because CHRIST has made me eternally accepted by God = THE CROSS....The Blood of Jesus,.... The GIFT of Salvation...The New Covenant......"""Justified by Faith.""""
AS ALL of that is GOD's Saving GRACE.
THAT is the """"GIFT of SALVATION""., and you dont earn that or keep it...Its an Eternal GIFT, its Eternal LIFE "in Christ'.
THAT is..."Christ has redeemed me from the curse of the LAW". 'made righteous".."One with God" "in Christ"..having become "The righteousness of God, in Christ".

Now, Carnal Legalists, will oppose the Grace of God with their "law keeping" theology.
Learn to spot them and avoid them.

Paul told you to "renew your mind" = Learn to believe what i just showed you, and that "confessing issue" will leave your walk with God and become this......>"CHRIST always gives me the VICTORY">.... over my flesh, the world and the devil.

 

[BobRyan]

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You are "made free from sin"., if you are born again and not just water baptized and a religious law keeper.
So, if you are confessing sin, then what you are struggling with..... is sin consciousness, not sin.

Paul said' "i seen another law warring against ">..= "Inside me".
See that?
That is what is happening to you Reader...., because you are not in real faith., you are in the flesh.....the mind of the flesh. As that produced the confessing , sinning, repeat, failed discipleship, issue.

Paul wrote of these deceived believers....

"""O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth"""

""""Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit (born again), are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh (self effort -works, law keeping"" = self righteousness.

The ""flesh"" as Paul is showing you in those verses is that struggle you feel to try to be good and "Be like Christ", and you fail.
The reason is.... You can't do that and succeed.. ..and because its not possible to live holy by WILL POWER and striving to be good, ...what happens is....."the law is the power of sin". on you.

See that? The "curse of the Law" is that the more you strive to be SELF righteous..... trying to prove to God you are good by law keeping and commandment keeping, then your SELF righteousness enlists the law's dominion, as "the Power of sin is the Law and The Law is the power of SIN", enflames your carnality.
That is "the curse of the Law".

The good news for the Born again?

"you are not under the Law, but under GRACE"
"Jesus has redeemed the born again from the CURSE of THE LAW".
"Christ is the end of THE LAW....for righteousness, for all the born again".

This means that when a believer is trying to do good so that God will accept you and keep you saved... wrongly believing that this is Christian FAITH, then the Law is now empowering your carnality to be worse.
= Sin Consciousness.

"the harder i try, the worse it gets"... "oh wretched man that I AM... = (the carnal mind)...who will deliver me from this BODY (the flesh mind) of death"....

See that?
THAT....is Trying to keep the LAW,......its the same as trying to stay saved, or trying not to lose your salvation, as you are struggling to do that by SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS., and that is broken faith.

Self Righteousness, is the self willed THINKING... regarding trying to MAKE SELF RIGHT WITH GOD BY WORKS, Law, commandment keeping...
That struggle is this......>"that which i would do, i cant do, and that which i hate i do".
To stop that, you have to end trying to be accepted by God based on your behavior(Law Keeping) (commandment keeping)(good works) and change your mind from that to..>"i am always accepted by God, because CHRIST has made me eternally accepted by God = THE CROSS....The Blood of Jesus,.... The GIFT of Salvation...The New Covenant......"""Justified by Faith.""""
AS ALL of that is GOD's Saving GRACE.
THAT is the """"GIFT of SALVATION""., and you dont earn that or keep it...Its an Eternal GIFT, its Eternal LIFE "in Christ'.
THAT is..."Christ has redeemed me from the curse of the LAW". 'made righteous".."One with God" "in Christ"..having become "The righteousness of God, in Christ".

Now, Carnal Legalists, will oppose the Grace of God with their "law keeping" theology.
Learn to spot them and avoid them.

Paul told you to "renew your mind" = Learn to believe what i just showed you, and that "confessing issue" will leave your walk with God and become this......>"CHRIST always gives me the VICTORY">.... over my flesh, the world and the devil.

or else...
The inconvenient texts in the Bible - do matter after all --

1 John 1: 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

Matt 6:
9 “Pray, then, in this way:
‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 ‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 ‘Give us this day our daily bread.
12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

14 For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Now, Carnal Legalists, will oppose the Grace of God with their "law keeping" theology.

Or just pay attention to the inconvenient Bible texts.

 

[d taylor]

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​

That is exactly what most, who identify as of the christian faith, are trying to do. Work out their salvation, by obedience, baptism, repentance, confession, making Jesus Lord of their life (just another way to say obedience). There are probably more but they really all fall under obedience or commitment.

 

[Chaleb]

or else...
The inconvenient texts in the Bible - do matter after all --

1 John 1: 9 If we confess our sins,

Paul wrote "God has made Jesus to be sin for Us"

Paul wrote "He that is dead is freed from Sin".

Paul wrote. "the old man is crucified with Christ".

Paul wrote. "Christ always gives me the Victory". over the flesh the world and the devil.

Paul wrote "sin shall not have dominion over you, as you are not under the Law, but under Grace"..


So, BobRyan, as you are sinning and confessing, its because your understanding of what it means to be a "new Creation in Christ", is not correct.

 

[Bro.T]

Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen). (Matthew 7:13, 14) Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith.


The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

Some say you must obey God's word, but then they turn around and teach contrary to God's word. At best they never get around to explaining exactly what kind of works are needed to get eternal life. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to.

Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

 

[Chaleb]

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word

That's discipleship.

Its not Salvaiton.

The "doing" that God accepts to save you is what Jesus did for you on the Cross.
You can't "do that", BroT.

But if you are born again, then do all the works you want to do, because you are saved, and never to try to stay saved.

 

[Cassian]

That's discipleship.

Its not Salvaiton.

By any standard of scriptrue it is precisely about your having eternal life. Salvation is the end game as per I Pet 1:3-5.

The "doing" that God accepts to save you is what Jesus did for you on the Cross.
You can't "do that", BroT.

This is why you are so confusing relative to scripture.
What Christ did on the Cross was for the world, for mankind. It is called the salvation of the world. But it did not save any individual relative to one's personal relationship with Christ. We have forgiveness of sins because Christ was the one time sacrifice for sin. Which is why believers are commanded to remain faithful and when we do sin, He is willing and able to forgive us our sins.
You are correct that man could not do what Christ did for us, which is why we needed Him. But our personal relationship is all about what we do in a synergistic, mutual relationship which has conditions. It is a two-way street.

But if you are born again, then do all the works you want to do, because you are saved, and never to try to stay saved.

No place in scripture does it ever say a believer is saved (Past tense). It depends on how we keep our faith, that we remain faithful eternal life awaits us in the end, I Pet 1:3-5.. The inheritance is not given to you when one first believes. Believers are promised eternal life if they believe. But that belief is continuous, its an active event in our lives. The Bible has many examples of individuals losing faith. Our salvation depends on OUR faith.

 

[Chaleb]

This is why you are so confusing relative to scripture.

Which is why believers are commanded to remain faithful and when we do sin, He is willing and able to forgive us our sins.

Im not confusing at all.
I only do one thing........ I teach "Pauline Theology".
So, on a forum like this one, that is mostly Catholics and Calvinists, i teach the CROSS as the Grace of God, in place of works, water, and sin confessing.
Why?
Its because im dealing mostly with Catholics and Calvinist's on my Threads, and these 2 groups have been taught to believe against the Cross.

Let me show you how..

This is why both groups will try to prove that you have to keep yourself saved, and they will post verses that talk about law, commandments, water, and works as their self effort to TRY to keep themselves saved.
Thats not faith in Christ.......that's faith in SELF.

See, you just said that if you are good and faithful, then based on your self effort, Christ will forgive your sin.
Yet, God said, """"I sent my Son to the Cross while you were YET A SINNER, UNGODLY< and when you believe in JESUS i accept you based on His CROSS and i only keep you for the same REASON i saved you."""

See that?
That's Salvation, and not "if i do good, God keeps me"., as that is LEGALISM that rejects the Cross.

 

[Bro.T]

That's discipleship.

Its not Salvaiton.

The "doing" that God accepts to save you is what Jesus did for you on the Cross.
You can't "do that", BroT.

But if you are born again, then do all the works you want to do, because you are saved, and never to try to stay saved.

Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; this teaching is a damnable heresy brought in by man. To teach someone that all they have to do is believe on Christ and you are saved is a doctrine of the devil. Many who teach eternal security teach that once a man is saved no matter how wicked he becomes he is still saved.

Paul said in (1 Cor. 15:1-2) (v.1) MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (v.2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. Paul is telling you right here that you are saved by the gospel that he preached unto you if you keep it in memory. So what happens if you don’t keep it in memory? Then you have believed in vain you have believed for nothing that’s what vain means.

 

[Chaleb]

Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him.

Nothing is gained by accepting Jesus into your life.
As a matter of fact, thats a very meaningless phrase you posted.

God said you are to Receive Jesus as your Savior, as your sin bearer, and as your redeemer.
That is quite different .

 

[SamInNi]

Just to be clear, in 1st Corinthians 15:2 there is no instruction to keep anything in our “memory”. A better translation would be, “...hold firmly to the word [message] I preached to you”. Those who don’t hold firmly to the truth, who obviously don’t keep a firm possession of the true message, are those who have clearly believed in vain.

We could argue that their inability to run with the truth is evidence of their lost condition. But we shouldn’t confuse that with genuine believers in Christ who are struggling with sins or bad choices, or are confused about Bible teaching, or have been taught wrongly, or are making honest mistakes, or are simply spiritually immature. They are on a journey and need loving input and support. They shouldn’t be written off as lost. Who would be so rash?

There are branches in Christ that will be cut off because they bore no fruit. Difficulty arises if we try to argue that those who are cut off were genuine, born again believers in Christ who had believed in vain. Those who do not continue in His kindness will be cut off, but it doesn’t automatically follow that all these people were genuinely born again in the first place. Those who abide (remain consistently) in Christ will be pruned and will bear lots of fruit.

We run aground too when we try to argue that true believers cannot sin, or will not sin after being born again. The balance of Scripture teaching shows that true believers can indeed fall into sin but through heartfelt repentance the efficacy of Christ’s blood continues to cleanse them. True salvation is a secure process.

In my opinion, there are also those who consciously rebel against Christ. They accept the truth and despise it. Karl Marx may have been such a character. “It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

For more on these issues, see HERE.

 

[Chaleb]

We run aground too when we try to argue that true believers cannot sin, or will not sin after being born again. The balance of Scripture teaching shows that true believers can indeed fall into sin \

What you mean is that the born again are not under the law, so the Law can't define their "works of the flesh" as sin.

Which explains why Romans 4:8 says that God does not charge sin to the born again.

Also, if you are sinning and confessing, then your understanding of "made free from sin".. Romans 6:18..... does not exist in your head, and probably not in the denomination that created you to not understand it.

See, people who dont understand the Cross, talk about SIN, Law, and Commandments, obsessively.
People who understand the Cross, talk about JESUS a lot.

'"you'll 'll know them by their FRUIT".

 

[SamInNi]

Romans 4:8 is in the context of God crediting righteousness to us apart from our works. No amount of religious ‘work’ can obtain true salvation. On that we would agree I’m sure.

Yes, praise God, we are freed from sin and now we present ourselves as slaves to righteousness, resulting in our sanctification (consecration, purification – an ongoing process).

Being obstinately disapproving is self-defeating. Blinkered opinionatedness is too, where we come across it. We need to be careful and cautious sometimes, especially with God’s Truth and when we don’t have enough facts to hand about people's backgrounds and their walk with God.

Sam

 

[Chaleb]

Romans 4:8 is in the context of God crediting righteousness to us apart from our works.

God does not give Salvation based on your works, as your works are "filthy rags" and nothing more.
And teaching that God's Salvation is based on works, is to deny the Cross and subject Jesus to your deception.
Do not do that.
NEVER, give works, law, or commandments the credit due Christ alone for Salvation.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Salvation is more than a ticket to heaven. There's also daily salvation from sin that takes place, and it benefits both ourselves and those around us. Becoming a better person through God. Salvation gives us that ability.

 

[Chaleb]

Salvation is more than a ticket to heaven. There's also daily salvation from sin that takes place, and it benefits both ourselves and those around us. Becoming a better person through God. Salvation gives us that ability.

Who told you that Salvation is a "ticket to heaven"?
That sounds like something the "cult of OSAS" would say.

Also, if you are born again, then you are "freed from sin"..... not being freed.
If you believe you have sin, and need to be saved from it......instead of understanding that The Cross already did that for you, then your understanding of what Christ said from the Cross...."it is Finished", is being misunderstood as..>"now here is what i have to do next".

Salvation isn't a Process.
Salvation is Jesus Himself.

Salvation is this...>" """The GIFT of Salvation"

That's : JESUS

 

[Ceallaigh]

Who told you that Salvation is a "ticket to heaven"?
That sounds like something the "cult of OSAS" would say.

Many seem to only think about going to heaven. Jesus gave us quite a lot of instruction regarding living better lives to our benefit and to the benefit of those around us. As did Paul.

Also, if you are born again, then you are "freed from sin"..... not being freed.
If you believe you have sin, and need to be saved from it......instead of understanding that The Cross already did that for you, then your understanding of what Christ said from the Cross...."it is Finished", is being misunderstood as..>"now here is what i have to do next".

Salvation isn't a Process.
Salvation is Jesus Himself.

Salvation is this...>" """The GIFT of Salvation"

That's : JESUS

I consider sanctification a proactive part of salvation. Sanctification isn't about where we go after we die. It's about growing in the Lord. Justification isn't the only gift of salvation. Salvation is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Cassian]

Im not confusing at all.
I only do one thing........ I teach "Pauline Theology".
So, on a forum like this one, that is mostly Catholics and Calvinists, i teach the CROSS as the Grace of God, in place of works, water, and sin confessing.
Why?
Its because im dealing mostly with Catholics and Calvinist's on my Threads, and these 2 groups have been taught to believe against the Cross.

Let me show you how..

This is why both groups will try to prove that you have to keep yourself saved, and they will post verses that talk about law, commandments, water, and works as their self effort to TRY to keep themselves saved.
Thats not faith in Christ.......that's faith in SELF.

See, you just said that if you are good and faithful, then based on your self effort, Christ will forgive your sin.
Yet, God said, """"I sent my Son to the Cross while you were YET A SINNER, UNGODLY< and when you believe in JESUS i accept you based on His CROSS and i only keep you for the same REASON i saved you."""

See that?
That's Salvation, and not "if i do good, God keeps me"., as that is LEGALISM that rejects the Cross.

I think you have grossly misunderstood both scripture and those you call Catholics and Calvinists.
First no biblical Christian believes that he is saved by works as you call them. My assumption is that these are what scripture calls Works of the law.
Any person who understands scripture acknowledges that man cannot save himself, cannot do what Christ did for us which was to keep that Law of Works perfectly. That eliminates any need to even speak of the works of the law, that is done away with through Christ.
However, what we need to do is believe that Christ saved us from death and sin. That is called justification by faith. We are now made right with God, Right with God so that we are able to be in union with Him with a living faith, not a dead faith. Remember Satan believes who Christ is as well.
That living faith requires a commitment to serve Him. We do that with all the help He has given us to be faithful. God cannot save us alone, nor can man save himself alone. It is a synergistic union between God and man. You seem to have the idea that man is saved by Christ reconciling the world and just believing that is ones personal salvation. Far from it. Most of what you are denying is what constitutes ones personal salvation which is called the Law of faith. Rom 3:27-31. We become more righteous by doing righteousness. I John 3:7. We are not just hearers but doers of the word. James 1:22-25.
We will be judged by the deeds we did through faith. Rom 2:6-8, Rev 20:12-13.

 

[Chaleb]

I consider sanctification a proactive part of salvation.

Salvation is Jesus on the Cross.
That is not your discipleship.

God, in Christ, dying for your sin, so that God can give you "the gift of righteousness", which allows God to have you.

That is the "finished work of Jesus on the Cross".

That is : SALVATiON


After you have that.........you then do all that stuff.


Most believers do not understand that Salvation is the Cross and discipleship is what you do, AFTER you have received what God did for you on the Cross.

Once a believer understands that distinction, they have begun to understand the walk of faith, correctly, and from THERE, begins their discipleship.

 

[Chaleb]

First no biblical Christian believes that he is saved by works as you call them.

Ask the "believers" here if they can lose their salvation as they have been taught by their cult.

They will , most of them here, will say...."Yes, Jesus saved me....but now i have to.....do all this self effort to : stay saved.

1.) keep commandments
2.) keep the law
3.) endure to the end
4.) hold unto my faith
5.) water baptism saved me
6.) make sure that I abide in Jesus


See all that SELF EFFORT, that you will be told by most here, they have to do, to go to heaven, and stay saved.


Arn't you one of them who believes that Jesus can't keep you saved, unless you do your LIST?

What's on your list, Cassian?

Penance?
enduring to the end?
dying in a state of grace?
keeping the commandments of Jesus?
water baptism?
speaking in tongues?

I bet your LIST is a long one.

But here is the thing....

All those works, didn't die on the Cross for your sin. All those works are just SELF Righteousness., and that = ZERO faith in Christ.


How do you know when a "believer" has real faith and not fake faith?

They will tell you that only JESUS Keeps them saved.

The rest, the "fallen from Grace' and the rest of the self savers, will tell you that they have to do their LIST to stay saved.