Women preachers

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Lik3

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Is there really anything in the Bible that says women should not be preachers or pastors in their own churches? What did Paul mean that he suffer a woman not to usurp a man's authority? However, does he mean preaching? I doubt highly that the Lord would discount a woman's work for Him if she is or was truly saved and living for Him. There are men who are heretics and there are women who are true believers. So why would God be against that particular woman preaching? That makes no sense. Am I missing something here? I believe that God gave us a plan and purpose for our lives and who is to say whether or not God didn't call said woman. Also, isn't that insulting the Lord to criticize whether or not she should even be leading a church?
 

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Is there really anything in the Bible that says women should not be preachers or pastors in their own churches?
Yes. 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1.
What did Paul mean that he suffer a woman not to usurp a man's authority?
He meant the opposite of what he said.
However, does he mean preaching? I doubt highly that the Lord would discount a woman's work for Him if she is or was truly saved and living for Him.
Of course not. Saved people can do whatever they think is good.
There are men who are heretics and there are women who are true believers.
Really? I thought it was only the other way around.

So why would God be against that particular woman preaching? That makes no sense. Am I missing something here?
Probably.
I believe that God gave us a plan and purpose for our lives and who is to say whether or not God didn't call said woman
Certainly not us.

Also, isn't that insulting the Lord to criticize whether or not she should even be leading a church?
No more insulting than being disobedient.
 
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BeeWrangler

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I would like to add that God made man and woman different in many ways (odviously)
I don't think it is any more insulting that he calls men to lead a church any more than it is insulting for a woman to be the one to give birth. Raise your voice at a man and he will raise it back at you, raise your voice at a woman and she will cry (in most cases). He made man and woman different in both physical and mental ways. God has his reasons for everything he created and everything he desires from us... he is God, who are we to judge him?
 
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DeaconDean

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This topic, when brought up in the Baptist area, always brings with it, contention.

Conservatives like myself, stand by what scriptures teach. Modernists/Liberals teach contrary.

The scriptures always show that the priesthood was promised to Aaron and his sons, and it was to be obeyed in perpetualty.

The qualifications in the NT show by the use of masculine nouns/pronouns that this is still true today.

The position of the Southern Baptist Convention as of 2000 was:

VI. The Church

A New Testament church of the Lord Jesus Christ is an autonomous local congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel; observing the two ordinances of Christ, governed by His laws, exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by His Word, and seeking to extend the gospel to the ends of the earth. Each congregation operates under the Lordship of Christ through democratic processes. In such a congregation each member is responsible and accountable to Christ as Lord. Its scriptural officers are pastors and deacons. While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture.

The New Testament speaks also of the church as the Body of Christ which includes all of the redeemed of all the ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Matthew 16:15-19; 18:15-20; Acts 2:41-42,47; 5:11-14; 6:3-6; 13:1-3; 14:23,27; 15:1-30; 16:5; 20:28; Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 3:16; 5:4-5; 7:17; 9:13-14; 12; Ephesians 1:22-23; 2:19-22; 3:8-11,21; 5:22-32; Philippians 1:1; Colossians 1:18; 1 Timothy 2:9-14; 3:1-15; 4:14; Hebrews 11:39-40; 1 Peter 5:1-4; Revelation 2-3; 21:2-3.

The Baptist Faith & Message

Personally, and fault me all you wish, but I would not sit under a woman pastor. That is not the biblical/scriptural model.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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loveabounds

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Is there really anything in the Bible that says women should not be preachers or pastors in their own churches? What did Paul mean that he suffer a woman not to usurp a man's authority? However, does he mean preaching? I doubt highly that the Lord would discount a woman's work for Him if she is or was truly saved and living for Him. There are men who are heretics and there are women who are true believers. So why would God be against that particular woman preaching? That makes no sense. Am I missing something here? I believe that God gave us a plan and purpose for our lives and who is to say whether or not God didn't call said woman. Also, isn't that insulting the Lord to criticize whether or not she should even be leading a church?

If a woman claims to have a calling from God, but it goes against Scripture...it is not from God. Most likely, it is her will that she wants to fulfill.
 
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Bella Vita

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Men and women are equal in the eyes of God but with different roles.

No women should not lead or have authority over men. Women should not be head pastors, deacons, or elders of churches. Scripture is very clear on this in many places. Women can however teach other women as well as children. There are many areas a women can be involved in with a church but being a head pastor should not be one of them. To go against scripture on this is feminist and prideful. A women of God should have no problem realizing her husband is her spiritual head and leader. And that men in the church are there to help her husband and family.
 
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motherprayer

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Men and women are equal in the eyes of God but with different roles.

No women should not lead or have authority over men. Women should not be head pastors, deacons, or elders of churches. Scripture is very clear on this in many places. Women can however teach other women as well as children. There are many areas a women can be involved in with a church but being a head pastor should not be one of them. To go against scripture on this is feminist and prideful. A women of God should have no problem realizing her husband is her spiritual head and leader. And that men in the church are there to help her husband and family.

Amen!
 
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Scripture might be clear to some people, but Church history sure ain't. In a letter to Caesar Trajan Pliny the Younger writes

"Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. "

read the whole thing:Pliny the Younger and Trajan on the Christians

And these women were slave women meaning the lowest social stature in their society. Something Divine takes the lowest person and makes them an authority person.

I'm not sold on a position yet, but I think the truth is not so simple to understand. The Baptist Convention which the Church I attend is a part of allows women to be ordained and to be pastors and deaconess and to preach.
 
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DeaconDean

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Scripture might be clear to some people, but Church history sure ain't. In a letter to Caesar Trajan Pliny the Younger writes

"Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. "

read the whole thing:Pliny the Younger and Trajan on the Christians

And these women were slave women meaning the lowest social stature in their society. Something Divine takes the lowest person and makes them an authority person.

I'm not sold on a position yet, but I think the truth is not so simple to understand. The Baptist Convention which the Church I attend is a part of allows women to be ordained and to be pastors and deaconess and to preach.

While it is true that the ECF's did write of women deaconesses, they are never spoken of as holding a position in authority within the church.

Addressing what Pliny wrote, it also notewothy:

I have found it necessary to extort information from two serving women (ex duabus ancillis) who are said to be deaconesses (ministrae).

The word ministra seems to be a translation of diakonos since it is the word which the Vulgate uses to translate diakonos in Romans 16. Here it appears to have a technical sense. In apposition to this we have the qualification ‘serving women’. It is an office of service obviously, but of what nature Pliny does not state. From subsequent Christian literature we have explicit evidence that the female diaconate consisted in assisting the bishop in offices related to baptism, community worship and the sick. We are dependent on later evidence also for information regarding the appointment of deaconesses.

St Clement of Alexandria places widows after the bishops, priests and deacons among the ‘persons of distinction’ (eklekta prosopa) So also Origen, who states that if the office of widows consisted solely of feet-washing, which any servant could do, there would be no reason for ranking (katatetachthai) them among those having an ecclesiastical status.

The Canons of Hippolytus, while including widows among the clergy, states that they are not to be ordained, and gives as their special duties prayer, fasting and care of the sick. The Apostolic Church Order speaks of the appointment of three widows, two to be appointed for ‘prayer for everyone who is in temptation’ and one for visiting the sick women.

Source

There were women "deacons" but their role was limited to ministering to other women as in the case of clothing them prior to and assisting them in dressing them after baptisms when it was totally inappropriate for men to do so.

It is also noteworthy to remember that as scripture is our guide, in Acts 6 where the first deacons are called and ordained, there are no women called in the narrative.

Just saying.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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Again, like I said previously, I seldom refer to the ECF's. But in this case, since the scriptures are not 100% clear, we must see what was taught in the early church.

The Didache circa A.D. 50, in a section which deals with the affairs of the church, shows that the office of deacon is restricted to men. [1]

Appoint, therefore, for yourselves, bishops and deacons worthy of the Lord, men meek, and not lovers of money, and truthful and proved; for they also render to you the service of prophets and teachers. Despise them not therefore, for they are your honoured ones, together with the prophets and teachers. [2]

The word aner is used, which can refer only to the male sex. The placing of deacon alongside of bishop (and in other early Christian literature, presbyter) indicates that very early in the church male deacons had authority. They, along with the bishop, are the "honored ones." There is no record of an official order of deaconesses in the church at the time the Didache was written.

[1] The earliest reference to the diaconate in the post-apostolic church is found in the writings of the apostolic father Hermas (c. A.D. 90-150). In his Similitude 9-27, he says that deacons are "such as have been set over inferior ministries and have protected the poor and the widows" (cited in Samuel Miller, An Essay on the Warrant, Nature and Duties of the Office of the Ruling Elder in the Presbyterian Church [New York, 1831], p. 221).

[2] Ante-Nicene Fathers, ed. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, revised and chronologically arranged with brief notes by A. Cleveland Coxe (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, [1886] 1994), 7:381.

Ignatius, who was said to be a disciple of the apostle John, wrote several epistles to the churches in Asia Minor while on his way to Rome to be martyred. This occurred under the persecution of the emperor Trajan. His description of the diaconate is inconsistent with the idea of deaconesses who function in the same office as male deacons.

First note that he assumes that deacons are men:

"...it will become you, as a Church of God, to elect a deacon to act as the ambassador of God [for you] to [the brethren there], that he may rejoice along with them when they are met together, and glorify the name [of God]."

Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1:85.

Second, Ignatius attributes an authority to the office of deacon that women are clearly not permitted to have.

"I exhort you to study to do all things with a divine harmony, while your bishop presides in the place of God, and your presbyters in the place of the assembly of the apostles, along with your deacons, who are most dear to me, and are entrusted with the ministry of Jesus Christ."

Ibid., 1:61.

Let the laity be subject to the deacons; the deacons to the presbyters; the presbyters to the bishop; the bishop to Christ, even as He is to the Father."

Ibid., 1:90.

"Fare ye well in the Lord Jesus Christ, while ye continue subject to the bishop, and in like manner to the presbyters and to the deacons."

Ibid., 1:72.

"My soul be for theirs that are submissive to the bishop, to the presbyters, and to the deacons, and may my portion be along with them in God!"

Ibid., 1:95.

The evidence is clear that among the early church, women did not hold the position of bishop (under-shepherd) of the congregation. And that although the arguement can be made of women deacons, their role was also very limited.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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Free Will Baptist believe a woman should not try to teach men at all. God is the head of the church; the minister head of the members; deacons assists the minister; men teach other men; women teach other women and children. I don't try to teach the men... as far as being silent..... well... duct tape is needed! :D
 
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MARY ELLIS

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the first message ever delivered was by Mary Magdalene, Mary mother of James, Joanna to go and tell the disciples that Jesus has risen from the dead. The females even had to remind the disciples of his promise to return. There for these women were sent by God through his angels to spread the good news (the gospel). Paul was an imperfect man that said women had no place in church. (1 Cor. 14:34-35). However those words did not come from God. If you ask me Paul has a little control issue and his just the typical old fashion guy. St. Paul was an imperfect man but quite disciplined in his own rightful way and i do look up to him.
 
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Bella Vita

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the first message ever delivered was by Mary Magdalene, Mary mother of James, Joanna to go and tell the disciples that Jesus has risen from the dead. The females even had to remind the disciples of his promise to return. There for these women were sent by God through his angels to spread the good news (the gospel). Paul was an imperfect man that said women had no place in church. (1 Cor. 14:34-35). However those words did not come from God. If you ask me Paul has a little control issue and his just the typical old fashion guy. St. Paul was an imperfect man but quite disciplined in his own rightful way and i do look up to him.


Really? I take it you do not believe that the Bible is the 100% word of God then. In that case why are you posting in a Baptist forum? Because we Baptists believe the Bible is 100% the true word of God and happened literally in everything that it says. Everything in the Bible was chosen by God if it wasn't suppose to be in there it wouldn't be in there.
 
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DeaconDean

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According to scripture women cannot be head of churches. This however does not mean they cannot preach or baptise others. It just means they cannot be head. But his does not mean they do not play important roles in churches.

I agree 100%.

You bring up a very valid point. Nowhere in scripture does it forbid women to witness or be a missionary.

I remember a woman at a certain well that Jesus used to witness, mission to a certain town.

"Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?" -Jn. 4:29 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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now faith

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Is there really anything in the Bible that says women should not be preachers or pastors in their own churches? What did Paul mean that he suffer a woman not to usurp a man's authority? However, does he mean preaching? I doubt highly that the Lord would discount a woman's work for Him if she is or was truly saved and living for Him. There are men who are heretics and there are women who are true believers. So why would God be against that particular woman preaching? That makes no sense. Am I missing something here? I believe that God gave us a plan and purpose for our lives and who is to say whether or not God didn't call said woman. Also, isn't that insulting the Lord to criticize whether or not she should even be leading a church?


Acts 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Acts 21:8 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Let your women keep silent in the churches,refers to wives and gossip. This is also the same context I suffer not a woman to usurp authority over the man
I believe this was Paul teaching common sense conduct in church.
You know its not the Deacons but their wives who controls things any way.
The Bible is not contrary against its self,so we must use reasoning to reconcile teaching.
The women in these verses were Godly women who held positions of authority.
 
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