Woman to learn in silence

[A Brother In Christ]

Catholic church ... Gen 2:18... it is not good for man to be alone

 

[A Brother In Christ]

If a woman has the gift of pator teacher she can teach children and women... but not men in a group

But maybe she may help a fellow man with scripture one on one!

 

[Floatingaxe]

If a woman has the gift of pator teacher she can teach children and women... but not men in a group

But maybe she may help a fellow man with scripture one on one!

A woman can pastor or preach to a mixed group--just not men only group. It is for her protection that it is so--not due to her weakness, but men's.

 

[bbbbbbb]

A woman can pastor or preach to a mixed group--just not men only. It is for her protection that it is so--not die to her weakness, but men's.

Do you have a biblical foundation for your statement?

 

[Floatingaxe]

Do you have a biblical foundation for your statement?

Yes, all the same scriptures the complementarians use.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

If a woman has the gift of pator teacher she can teach children and women... but not men in a group

But maybe she may help a fellow man with scripture one on one!

A woman can pastor or preach to a mixed group--just not men only. It is for her protection that it is so--not die to her weakness, but men's.

1 tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

why... 2 cor 11:3 eve was decieved

This is God will .... are you operating in His will

 

[Floatingaxe]

1 tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

why... 2 cor 11:3 eve was decieved

This is God will .... are you operating in His will

Absolutely. Are you absolutely sure that your mind is at one with God's in this matter? Are you sure you are understanding His Word correctly? What did Paul REALLY mean? Who was he addressing and why?

How many women USURP anything today? Give us some examples of women overtaking authority.

Pastors are SERVANT-LEADERS. Christians don't clamor for authority.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

change the meaning all you want ... but still out of God's will

 

[bbbbbbb]

change the meaning all you want ... but still out of God's will

I agree entirely.

 

[SeekerOfTheTruth]

Hi,

You are suggesting that God was sexist against the woman He created as perfect as He created the man. In biblical times, women were treated miserably, which finds a perfect example in Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the care God instituted for her protection.

The reason that women are not to have authority over a man is not based on culture. It is based on creation, for this is what Timothy says:

1Ti 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve;

If then the basis is based on Creation, then it is unchangeable.
Thus, we cannot use the issue of whether or not women were mistreated to justify a disobedience of God. That would be like saying because some pastors are adulterers and embezzel huge sums of money, then we should do away with all church eldership.

Secondly, I would argue that we should never use our culture to interpret the word of God, because who sets the trend in culture? Is it not the ungodly and even those who hate and oppose God? Then why would we judge God's word by the standards of the very people who deny His existence and hate Him?

That women participated in God's work is ever so obvious in the OT; and NT, despite the tactics of apostate Jews.

God used Miriam:
The Lord say, "My people, what have I done to you? How have I been a burden to you? Answer me. I brought you out of Egypt, I rescued you from slavery: I sent Moses, Aaron, and Miriam to lead you." (Mic 6: 3-4)

Miriam and Aaron too spoke against Moses. ... They said: "Has Yahweh spoken to Moses only? Has he not spoken to us too?" (Num 12:1-2)

Did Aaron and Miriam keep what God spoke to them from the people? Or did they preach the word?

We cannot use this incident to completely ignore an outright commandment of God. It isn't a good way to understand Scripture. There were others too who God gave power to, like Debra, Esther, etc.

Will you forbid women to be silent when they clearly have the same commission to speak/preach the word of God?

Which Scripture verse in the New Testament commissions women to preach/teach the word of God? I believe women are given a calling to preach, but to other women and children, but Scripture clearly forbids women having authority over men.

Or did Paul write down things he was able to write by permission but not by commandment? Did Paul have a personal issue with women? I Corinthians 7:6 - Paul says he speaks by permission, not commandment. "But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment."

I'm afraid you're mistaken and misquoted Scripture. On 1 Cor 7:6, where Paul speaks by permission, he was talking about men being celibate, and instructions to believers married to unbelievers. It has nothing to do with women in leadership.

On Paul's authority in speaking on women in leadership, he clearly says this command comes from the Lord, and not from him!

1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

- Paul's instruction on women's role in the church

1Co 14:36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached?

- Paul's rebuke to the Corinthians. Are you the mother church that you set the standards? Shouldn't it be us the apostles whom you should obey? Are you the only ones whom the gospel has reached? No, there're other churches and none behave as you do.

1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
- I think this is the crucial key in all this. Paul specifically states that his instruction regarding women's role is not from himself, but a command of the Lord. If anyone regards himself as spiritual, he should then acknowledge and agree with Paul in these things.
- the consequences of disobedience are stated in verse 38. Whoever does not recognize his teaching, is not recognized by God.

I hope this helps to clarify things, and I hope I've said this in love.

Jesus Himself commissioned women to testify. Or did God not know who would tell the world Jesus had risen? That good news and every other good news is called preaching.

Personal evangelism yes, but not holding authority in the church.

 

[NorrinRadd]

Hi,


The reason that women are not to have authority over a man is not based on culture. It is based on creation, for this is what Timothy says:

1Ti 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve;

If then the basis is based on Creation, then it is unchangeable.

By that logic, every critter from Jiminy Cricket to Magilla Gorilla has authority over Man.

...
Which Scripture verse in the New Testament commissions women to preach/teach the word of God? I believe women are given a calling to preach, but to other women and children, but Scripture clearly forbids women having authority over men.

Acts 2:17-18 places men and women on equal footing in serving in Spirit-empowered speaking ministries.

I'm afraid you're mistaken and misquoted Scripture. On 1 Cor 7:6, where Paul speaks by permission, he was talking about men being celibate, and instructions to believers married to unbelievers. It has nothing to do with women in leadership.

On Paul's authority in speaking on women in leadership, he clearly says this command comes from the Lord, and not from him!

1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

*Assuming* vv. 34-35 are legitimate and not a margin gloss, they simply cannot be taken at face value, because earlier in the same letter, Paul assumed women *would* be speaking -- praying and prophesying -- in the assembly.

- Paul's instruction on women's role in the church

1Co 14:36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached?

- Paul's rebuke to the Corinthians. Are you the mother church that you set the standards? Shouldn't it be us the apostles whom you should obey? Are you the only ones whom the gospel has reached? No, there're other churches and none behave as you do.

1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
- I think this is the crucial key in all this. Paul specifically states that his instruction regarding women's role is not from himself, but a command of the Lord. If anyone regards himself as spiritual, he should then acknowledge and agree with Paul in these things.
- the consequences of disobedience are stated in verse 38. Whoever does not recognize his teaching, is not recognized by God.

I hope this helps to clarify things, and I hope I've said this in love.

Unfortunately, it really does not clarify things, because not only are those verses contrary to things Paul said in ch. 11, but also vv. 37-38 could easily be taken as applying to the whole passage, not just to vv. 34-35. That is problematic, because throughout Acts, prophecy and especially "tongues" did not at all follow the "rules" for orderly public practice.