Woman to learn in silence

[fil3232003]

When I was a Roman Catholic, we did not have women priests. I believed the reason for this prohibition is the following:

• 1 Tim 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

• 1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

After searching the Scriptures, and acting like the Bereans, I realized this is not the reason according to God.

Any feedback?

 

[evangelist.gary]

Some people will argue and say that in the biblical days, women were uneducated with scripture, that they would lead people down the wrong path, and would fall into false teachings. Which is why they were not allowed to preach. However thats not the case! God does use women in the ministry, BUT NOT HOW HE USES MEN, women have a totally different role!

Female pastors and preachers are an abomination! If a church allows such activities, God will not protect that specific church! But the liberals and feminine groups are the ones distorting scripture, and can not handle the order of things in which God intended. They are in rebellion and disobeying God!

Female pastors/preachers cause erosion of trust in the Bible and obedience to the Bible, generally in the congregation, because the methods of interpretation used to justify what she is doing often involve misinterpretation of scripture or eroding of the authority of scripture to justify their sin of disobediance. In more liberal churches [where women are ordained] there’s been an amazing decline in membership. It hasn’t been the path to blessing.

Also, there will be an erosion of male leadership in the family because the modeling of female leadership in the pastorate will be reflected in a lessening of male leadership in the home. There will be a resulting increase in gender identity confusion among boys and girls growing up in the church. Anyone who lives in a pattern of constant disobedience to the word of God--if a woman does this, she is opening herself up to the danger of the withdrawal of God’s hand of protection and blessing on her life.

Now, people can weep, they can complain all they wish about this subject, if people do so, then they are not studying to show themselves approved before God as He commanded, probably reading out of a satanic translation of the bible, not judging themselves according to scripture, and seeing if they truly have the genuine saving faith in Jesus Christ!

God does NOT ordain women to preach, or pastor a church period, if a woman feels she has been called by God to do so, she is being deceived by the devil, what better way to destroy a church than have a woman pastor it? Thats exactly what happens, and the church will become lukewarm, or desolate, this is just yet one of many of the devices the devil uses against churches, and Christians! Allowing such in a church is unbiblical, an abomination, and there will be consequences from God. You will never find a woman who is indwelled by the Holy Ghost, and is preaching the TRUTH. For instance, look at Joyce Meyer and others, they all preach similarities, a specific theme, but its the female perspective, they talk about love, and not sin, they do not believe the Lord will chasten His children, they do not preach about Hell, Homosexuality, or anything which would bring heat to their so called ministry, they preach to the itchy ears, they don't want to loose members, and enjoy the money!

A Hellfire, Brimstone preacher doesn't care, He fears God, and will tell it like it is, your toes will get stepped on, God will send old timey Revivals, people will get saved, people will scream and cry with joy as God sends a cloud of unspeakable joy over the church, people will pass out in the spirit, people will be healed of diseases, cancers, and infirmities!

You will never see this happen with a female preacher or pastor because Gods spirit will not dwell in a rebellious house, and will not claim the church as one of His until the rebellion stops, and there is true heart felt repentence and obediance!

If Eve wouldn't have been disobiant to God by eating from the the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then deceiving Adam, things may have been different, who knows, however God created Adam first, and created Eve second, and Eve was the first human to sin! Satan was the first angel to sin, and the angels that followed Satan sinned, then Eve!

 

[fil3232003]

In my search of the Scriptures I read the following:

That God is speaking in parables:

• Eze 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?

That Jesus Christ prophesied to speak parables:

• Psa 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

True to what “is written,” Mark wrote the following:

• Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

• Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Did Jesus speak except in PARABLES?

• Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Were Peter, John, or any Apostles authorized to expound on the words of God that are expressed in parables?

• Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Therefore what does God mean by WOMEN in the following?

• 1 Cor 14:34 Let your WOMEN keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

• 1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a WOMAN to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Any feedback?

 

[bbbbbbb]

My goodness! Now are we to take a plain teaching of scripture and turn it into a parable? Face the facts, folks. These are women - ladies, if you will - of the female gender of the human race.

 

[evangelist.gary]

fil3232003, God used parables to teach the people back then because their minds could not understand. You need to learn how to read and understand your bible, the bible was wrote by men indwelled by the Holy Ghost, and it takes just that to interpret scripture.

• 1 Cor 14:34 Let your WOMEN keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

• 1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a WOMAN to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

This means exactly what is wrote, its not a parable, your taking scripture out of context and creating all this confusion for yourself, God is NOT the author of confusion!

 

[JCFantasy23]

I find the conversation interesting and will subscribe. Intellectually I would think everyone has equal rights within the church as a pastor, yet for some reason it never rang right with me (likely because it's in the bible that way). I could be wrong and it could simply be parable. I never studied the subject, BUT my gut intuition makes it not seem right, so I choose to forgo the idea. I'm a woman too so this isn't just a man's point of view thing.

 

[cCensor]

When I was a Roman Catholic, we did not have women priests. I believed the reason for this prohibition is the following:

• 1 Tim 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

• 1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

After searching the Scriptures, and acting like the Bereans, I realized this is not the reason according to God.

Any feedback?

So after searching the scriptures you made Paul a lier, because it does not fit your way of thinking. Well just take your marker and cross out what ever you FEEL is not according to YOUR way of thinking.

Soon you will have nothing to read.

With respect Censor

 

[NorrinRadd]

When I was a Roman Catholic, ...

Are you looking for replies only from Roman Catholics, or is this a more "open" thread?

 

[Epiphoskei]

True to what “is written,” Mark wrote the following:

• Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

• Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Did Jesus speak except in PARABLES?

• Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

It's pretty easy to look in the Bible and see that Jesus did speak on many occasions without parables, just not to the masses. But the epistles were not written to the people, they were written to Christian audiences.

Were Peter, John, or any Apostles authorized to expound on the words of God that are expressed in parables?

• Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

I'm not sure how you see that verse answering your question. The Apostles spoke truth clearly without parables. Parables are pretty obviously identifiable in scripture.

 

[- DRA -]

When I was a Roman Catholic, we did not have women priests. I believed the reason for this prohibition is the following:

• 1 Tim 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

• 1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

After searching the Scriptures, and acting like the Bereans, I realized this is not the reason according to God.

Any feedback?

Here are passages that influence my understanding about the roles of Christian women and teaching:

As for receiving the blessings of God, women are equal with men per Gal. 3:28.
As for the order of subjection, it is: 1.) God 2.) Christ 3.) man 4.) woman (1 Cor. 11:3).
As for the woman's role in the assembly of the church, and in the context of public speaking, I look to 1 Cor. 14:34.
As for the general role of women (not specifically applying to the assembly but certainly applying to it), women are not to teach nor have authority over men per 1 Tim. 2:11-14.

I believe it is an excellent idea to imitate the behavior of the Bereans (searching the Scriptures to determine whether or not one has heard the truth). Concerning priests, I understand from 1 Peter 2:9 that Christians (both men and women) should consider themselves as priests under the gospel of Christ. To clarify the point, every Christian is a priest - not just "select" Christians. Therefore, there should be equality among priests in the Lord's service. I know this might sound "foreign" from a Catholic perspective, but it is a scriptural concept under the gospel of Christ. Christians are priests who serve God under one High Priest (Hebrews 3:1) - who made a one-time sacrifice for all the sins of mankind (Heb. 10:12).

But, when it comes to the woman's role in teaching/preaching, I still have to accurately understand and apply the previously mentioned passages. My understanding is that women are not to teach over men (i.e., preach, teach classes with men in the audience). If you have drawn a different conclusion from the Scriptures, I would like to hear the reasoning. I mean no disrespect to women. It's not a matter of education, intelligence, ability, or capacity to reason. To me, it's simply a matter of subjection for the reasons God gives. Take for example 1 Cor. 14. Not only were women commanded to be silent in vs 34, but men were also commanded to be silent in the previous verses (e.g. vs. 28, 30). While one spoke the other men were to be silent. That part of the chapter is frequently overlooked in discussions.

 

[JCFantasy23]

It may just simply be a case of balance. Everything in nature has a simple balance, or else things go haywire. It's nearly impossible for us to see how things will fall apart unless we take things out of balance, so it's hard for some people to see what is wrong with women preachers. Perhaps there is a complex reason behind why God wanted women for other areas of ministry and men to be preachers. I do not take it to mean it was because women were inferior, but as preachers perhaps God feels they are. In the same light, God may feel men are inferior when it comes to the more nurturing counseling ways women can employ themselves in the church. It could be as simple as that, or I could be completely off base.

 

[Luzeiro]

Some people will argue and say that in the biblical days, women were uneducated with scripture, that they would lead people down the wrong path, and would fall into false teachings. Which is why they were not allowed to preach. However thats not the case! God does use women in the ministry, BUT NOT HOW HE USES MEN, women have a totally different role!

You are suggesting that God was sexist against the woman He created as perfect as He created the man. In biblical times, women were treated miserably, which finds a perfect example in Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the care God instituted for her protection.

That women participated in God's work is ever so obvious in the OT; and NT, despite the tactics of apostate Jews.

God used Miriam:
The Lord say, "My people, what have I done to you? How have I been a burden to you? Answer me. I brought you out of Egypt, I rescued you from slavery: I sent Moses, Aaron, and Miriam to lead you." (Mic 6: 3-4)

Miriam and Aaron too spoke against Moses. ... They said: "Has Yahweh spoken to Moses only? Has he not spoken to us too?" (Num 12:1-2)

Did Aaron and Miriam keep what God spoke to them from the people? Or did they preach the word?

Will you forbid women to be silent when they clearly have the same commission to speak/preach the word of God? Or did Paul write down things he was able to write by permission but not by commandment? Did Paul have a personal issue with women? I Corinthians 7:6 - Paul says he speaks by permission, not commandment. "But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment."

Jesus Himself commissioned women to testify. Or did God not know who would tell the world Jesus had risen? That good news and every other good news is called preaching.

 

[Luzeiro]

If Eve wouldn't have been disobiant to God by eating from the the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then deceiving Adam, things may have been different, who knows, however God created Adam first, and created Eve second, and Eve was the first human to sin! Satan was the first angel to sin, and the angels that followed Satan sinned, then Eve!

Eve was tempted and yielded to the temptation; Adam sinned deliberately; she is not responsible for the choice Adam made, Adam is.

Sin entered the world through Adam, not Eve.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned". Romans 5:12

 

[plmarquette]

the pulpit is not the only form of ministry......Pastor is the leader of the flock and within the flock there are other needs to be met, just as important each month
HVAC ... Keeping the building up
choir .... praise and worship
bills ; administration

 

[billwald]

1 &2 Tim were probably written after Paul's death.

 

[Epiphoskei]

Well, that's what the liberals tell us...

Even if so (and I don't accept that theory, but even if), unless we take that to mean that we must remove them from the canon, what they say is still authoritative on the matter.

 

[Salve_Regina]

When I was a Roman Catholic, we did not have women priests. I believed the reason for this prohibition is the following:

• 1 Tim 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

• 1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

After searching the Scriptures, and acting like the Bereans, I realized this is not the reason according to God.

Any feedback?

Well, these passages are not the only reasoning the Catholic Church uses in declaring that it is impossible to ordain women. It's actually a matter of deep theology.

Men and women both have equal but positively distinct roles in salvation. Basically, the role of every man is to be a father-- a leader and a teacher, and the role of every woman is to be a mother-- a lifegiver and nurturer. Every man and every woman are called to these roles, regardless of whether it is in a physical or spiritual manner.

The Catholic Church sees itself as the Bride of Christ; and the priest, as alter Christus, another Christ. It is the woman who gives life; it is the Church who gives us life through the Blessed Sacrament. It is only through the man that the woman brings life into being. It is only through the priest that the Church gives us the Sacrament. Just as two women cannot possibly bring about life, a woman priestess is an impossibility.

As for other liturgical ministries, they are reserved for men as their vocation is to be leader and teacher.

I do not believe in the slightest that because they are barred from leading or teaching men, women are slighted. Women have their own unique and special role given by God. To say that equality can only be reached by attaining the role of a man is to degrade women by inferring that they are not good enough as God made them.

 

[&Abel]

It may just simply be a case of balance. Everything in nature has a simple balance, or else things go haywire. It's nearly impossible for us to see how things will fall apart unless we take things out of balance, so it's hard for some people to see what is wrong with women preachers. Perhaps there is a complex reason behind why God wanted women for other areas of ministry and men to be preachers. I do not take it to mean it was because women were inferior, but as preachers perhaps God feels they are. In the same light, God may feel men are inferior when it comes to the more nurturing counseling ways women can employ themselves in the church. It could be as simple as that, or I could be completely off base.

couldn't agree more

we all have our roles and we are all one in christ in the end even if our duties are different here

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Why Women are not Priests

 

[fil3232003]

Dear participants on this Thread, thank you for your responses.

I learned in reading the Bible that, because God is a Spirit so are His words having spiritual message aside from their literal meanings.

This is how “decipher” God’s words. Example, regarding women:

Literally, WOMEN belong to the female gender as we all know. But God spoke the following, composed of His chosen, both male and female:

* Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family...

Marriage is a union of a MAN and a WOMAN. Therefore, in the foregoing “marriage” of God with His chosen people, let Him identify the “man” and the “woman.”

* Isa 54:5For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Therefore if God is the HUSBAND, He must be the “MAN” and His children (chosen) or “WIFE” are the “WOMEN.” Now regarding the question of:

* 1 Tim 2:11 =Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

* 1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

* 1 Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Does not the foregoing spiritual revelation refer to our Lord being the MAN He alone is authorized to expound on His words?

* Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

The foregoing is a demonstration.