WOF ..what is it

Truthfrees

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The Lord won't MOVE for you.

The Lord already DID move for you through all the LORD JESUS CHRIST did. It's done, It's finished. He's resting now.

You need to get in close daily fellowship with the Lord and allow the HOLY SPIRIT of the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY to move YOU in faith. (James 2:17, 2:26)

Start listening for what the Spirit of the LIVING GOD has to say to you. (Hebrews 3:7, Revelation 2:7, 11, 17, 29, Revelation 3:6, 13, 22)

The Lord watches over HIS words to perform them, so you need to find out what HIS words are. (Jeremiah 1:12)

The angels of the Lord hearken to the sound of HIS words (not yours) and make them come to pass, so you need to make the sound of HIS words. (Psalm 103:20)

No matter which way you look at it, HIS words, faith, thoughts, ways, power, path, is better than your own, so drop yours and take HIS.

"I run along the path of your commands, for you enable me to do so." - Psalm 119:32 NET

"[Not in your own strength] for it is God Who is all the while effectually at work in you [energizing and creating in you the power and desire], both to will and to work for His good pleasure and satisfaction and delight." - Philippians 2:13 AMP
 
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Alithis

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The truth is..the lord jesus is coming back soon and he will overthrow the entire system .he comes for a bridevwho has been purified and has taken up the cross.a bride whose single passion is to add souls to heaven and seeks nothing of herself for herself but to please the groom and do his will.
We are to declare his will ...not our will.
 
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Truthfrees

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AMEN to finding out from the LORD what pleases HIM while we're still on earth. (Ephesians 5:10)

Let's all be doing what HE told us to do. (John 2:5)

RESIST the devil and he will flee. (James 4:7)

Preach the good news, make disciples of all nations, lay hands on the sick, cast out demons, raise the dead, etc. (Matthew 10:8, 28:19, Mark 16:15, Luke 4:18)

Love the LORD our GOD with all our heart soul mind strength and our neighbor as ourselves. (Matthew 22:36-40, Mark 10:30-31, Luke 10:27)

IOW, be a HOLY FIRE STARTER, not a HOLY couch potato.

Don't let anything stop you from bringing glory to the Lord. (Nehemiah 6:3)

If you get stuck in a distraction, tribulation, temptation, etc, double up on the LORD'S words, and prayer fellowship with HIM. Ask the Lord what to do. (Hebrews 4:16)

Don't lay down and let the devil steam roll over you, and blame the LORD, or "his will" for the mess.

The Lord's people perish and come to needless ruin because they don't resist the devil, AND they don't read the LORD'S words enough to know for themselves WHAT the Lord's will is. (Hosea 4:6)
 
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Bob Carabbio

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"Gods Word is a living Word,in that revelation comes through the Holy Spirit speaking to our inner witness from the word."

Translation: "Faith is revelatory"

The Holy Spirit bears witness to YOU concerning God's Will based on God's Word.

Anything else is PRESUMPTION.

Simple as that.
 
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now faith

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"Gods Word is a living Word,in that revelation comes through the Holy Spirit speaking to our inner witness from the word."

Translation: "Faith is revelatory"

The Holy Spirit bears witness to YOU concerning God's Will based on God's Word.

Anything else is PRESUMPTION.

Simple as that.

Sounds like a Dad Hagin quote to me:p
 
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SavedByGrace3

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"In other words, I interpret this to mean that the "Word of Faith" movement is about personal revelation. Revelation = God shows you personally somehow."

Actually revelation knowledge has nothing to do with new revelation. Revelation knowledge is knowledge that is imparted to the heart, the place where faith happens. This is opposed to head knowledge that gets you nothing.

Revelation is the process by which the Holy Spirit opens your eyes and inserts the Word into you spirit. Nothing to do with "new" revelation.

Just pointing this out to help you stay out of the area of false witnessing. I know you would never tell lies on your brothers....
:amen:
 
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SavedByGrace3

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The truth is..the lord jesus is coming back soon and he will overthrow the entire system .he comes for a bridevwho has been purified and has taken up the cross.a bride whose single passion is to add souls to heaven and seeks nothing of herself for herself but to please the groom and do his will.
We are to declare his will ...not our will.

Amen!
And:
I am glad that it is His will that we ask that our Joy may be full.
I am glad that He has made all the promises of God yes and amen!
I am glad that He has given us all things that pertain to life and Godliness.
I am glad that He wants us to prosper and be in heath even as our souls prosper.
I am glad that He instructed us to pray that His will be done on earth as it is being done in heaven!
I am glad that He wants us to have life and have it more abundantly.
I am glad that He healeth all our diseases.
I am glad that His word prospers in the thing that He sends it and causes clapping, singing, rain, and good things!
I am glad that all these things and MANY more are the stated will of God for all believers.
I am glad that His word abides in me and therefore I can ask what I will and HE will do it for me!!!!


:clap::bow::clap::preach:
 
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Alithis

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Actually revelation knowledge has nothing to do with new revelation. Revelation knowledge is knowledge that is imparted to the heart, the place where faith happens. This is opposed to head knowledge that gets you nothing.

Revelation is the process by which the Holy Spirit opens your eyes and inserts the Word into you spirit. Nothing to do with "new" revelation.

Just pointing this out to help you stay out of the area of false witnessing. I know you would never tell lies on your brothers....
:amen:
hmmm, well put
 
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Alithis

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Amen!
And:
I am glad that it is His will that we ask that our Joy may be full.
I am glad that He has made all the promises of God yes and amen!
I am glad that He has given us all things that pertain to life and Godliness.
I am glad that He wants us to prosper and be in heath even as our souls prosper.
I am glad that He instructed us to pray that His will be done on earth as it is being done in heaven!
I am glad that He wants us to have life and have it more abundantly.
I am glad that He healeth all our diseases.
I am glad that His word prospers in the thing that He sends it and causes clapping, singing, rain, and good things!
I am glad that all these things and MANY more are the stated will of God for all believers.
I am glad that His word abides in me and therefore I can ask what I will and HE will do it for me!!!!


:clap::bow::clap::preach:
lol i joy in your joyfulness...
---
we could start new thread topics on almost every sentence haha
 
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K2K

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For the most part I find myself in agreement with the WOF people. The Bible is correct. God indeed put principles into effect, and they are laid out in the Bible.

Still, there can be a major problem with WOF. The problem comes if we lean on our understanding of the Bible instead of seeking the Lord for His understanding of the Bible.

It's easy to see the problem when WOF turns into name it and claim it. A person talks the spiritual principles in the Bible to acquire the desires of their heart instead of seeking the desire of our Lord Jesus Christ. When that happens, Jesus Christ is no longer their Lord, but they have made themselves the lord of their life. They are not following Jesus Christ, but are simply using Biblical principles to try to get what they want.

There is another name of this; it's called white magic. We can call it name it and claim it, if you like, but there is a significant difference between being a real Christian (a follower of Jesus Christ, who did and said only what the Father told Him) and using Biblical principles to get what we want in life.

Rm 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN? (that is, to bring Christ down)

Rm 10:8 But what does it say "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" -- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord...

Now the Bible is not in your mouth and in your heart, it is ink on pages. Sure, I have heard some say to memorize the Bible so that it is in your heart, but they really missed the point. Jesus said He and the Father are One and they would make their abode in you, and they would send the Spirit.

I heard the small voice of the Lord inside me. He gives me instructions. Sometimes, I find that He puts things in my mouth also. But regardless, He is not the Bible, the Bible testifies about Him. He gives me instructions. I heard the instructions and usually try to follow them.

So now- because I actually hear the small voice of the Lord talking to me from within, and because I actually hear instructions telling me things through out the day, I don't live by the Bible, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Now the first words He ever told me were "Read Your Bible", and so I did. And He told me that when I sit down to talk to the Father in the moring to always have a Bible handy so He can go over Scriptures with me, but He doesn't always go over a Scripture. Sometimes He wants to just talk to me, or He has me open another book.

I never know exactly what He is going to cover with me during my time with Him until He covers it. He is a Teacher, and a Teacher decides what the class with cover that day.

Today He didn't even want me sitting down to talk to Him; instead He asked me to go for a walk with Him. He took me on about a mile walk and talked to me about horzontal and vertical alignment.

There is a covering, or vertical alignment if you will. There is the Father, and under the Father is the Son, and under the Son is the Spirit, and under the Spirit is me. I need to, spiritually speaking, keep myself vertically aligned like that.

And then there is an alignment going forward. The Father is out in front, then the Son, then the Spirit, then my spirit, then my soul, then my flesh. When I move forward it should be in that way. And He talked about how when the Son took on flesh He had to line up like a man behind the Spirit of God.

So it was that the Spirit of God took Him out into the desert to be tested. He was following the Spirit while the Spirit was following the Father, and Jesus had to put His Spirit (which in that case was the Spirit of go) out in front, then His would and have His fleshy boddy follow. So He was tested by fasting, which required keeping His flesh in alignment and behind the rest.

Now I mention this and find it interesting because the WOF movement often is a reason movement that does not keep us both under God and behind God. It says, 'I got the Bible to get what I want, and interprete how I want.' They say they are putting their faith in God, but not staying in alignment under God and behind God is not putting your faith in God, but in yourself!! How do they miss this???

What gets said is -'I got these spiritual principles laid out in the Bible, and because I correctly believe God wrote the Bible, I can use those principle to get what I want and when I want it.'

Now perhaps they also noticed that they were supposed to do things like preach Jesus Christ, but does their preachng really match up with actually making Him your Lord. If you really look at it, it doesn't. They make Jesus Christ as if He is in some far away place and He left us the Bible as the Word of God, to follow. So they might not really following Him at all, but are saying they follow Him, while in fact they are applying spiritual principle that He set up to get what they want. So the Bible has become their Lord and their Word of God, to get what they think they should have.

Perhaps they do some good works, as they think they should, according to what is written, but they don't see it as 'their good works' because they are trying to follow the Bible. The problem is that we are not trying to follow the Bible, we are trying to follow our Lord Jesus Christ whom we can hear from because He sends His Holy Spirit who only speaks what He hears.

In their hearts they have said Jesus is in some far-away place called heaven. He left them the Bible, and they will follow it. So they cast out demons in His name, they heal the sick in His name, the prophesy in His name, and all the time they live by spiritual principles instead of hearing the small voice of the Lord and doing what He says. They might say Jesus Christ is Lord, but they don't confess the He is their Lord, because they are not hearing instructions from Him daily.

Now I have seen some who follow the Lord Jesus Christ and what He tells them by faith, and they seemed to come across as WOF people, which is fine. The Scriptures are right and we do have spiritual principle put in place by God to be used by Him as He tells us. So someone might seem like WOF people when they are very much followers of Jesus Christ. And I have seen people that seem to be followers of Jesus Christ, but I find out that while they said they were doing what Christ told them and were following Jesus Christ by faith, they were in fact actually leaning on their understanding of the Bible and the spiritual principles laid out there in.

It's not always clear, but there will be many that heal the sick in His name, cast out demons in His name, and even prophesy in His name who will be told on that day by Him, "I never knew you." And he doesn't lie. He is the Word of God that we follow by faith. That is what the Bible tells us. So make sure you are following Him, not the Bible. Make sure you actually know Jesus Christ and are not leaning on your understanding of the Bible and the spiritual principle cover in the Bible.
 
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now faith

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For the most part I find myself in agreement with the WOF people. The Bible is correct. God indeed put principles into effect, and they are laid out in the Bible.

Still, there can be a major problem with WOF. The problem comes if we lean on our understanding of the Bible instead of seeking the Lord for His understanding of the Bible.

It's easy to see the problem when WOF turns into name it and claim it. A person talks the spiritual principles in the Bible to acquire the desires of their heart instead of seeking the desire of our Lord Jesus Christ. When that happens, Jesus Christ is no longer their Lord, but they have made themselves the lord of their life. They are not following Jesus Christ, but are simply using Biblical principles to try to get what they want.

There is another name of this; it's called white magic. We can call it name it and claim it, if you like, but there is a significant difference between being a real Christian (a follower of Jesus Christ, who did and said only what the Father told Him) and using Biblical principles to get what we want in life.

Rm 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN? (that is, to bring Christ down)

Rm 10:8 But what does it say "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" -- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord...

Now the Bible is not in your mouth and in your heart, it is ink on pages. Sure, I have heard some say to memorize the Bible so that it is in your heart, but they really missed the point. Jesus said He and the Father are One and they would make their abode in you, and they would send the Spirit.

I heard the small voice of the Lord inside me. He gives me instructions. Sometimes, I find that He puts things in my mouth also. But regardless, He is not the Bible, the Bible testifies about Him. He gives me instructions. I heard the instructions and usually try to follow them.

So now- because I actually hear the small voice of the Lord talking to me from within, and because I actually hear instructions telling me things through out the day, I don't live by the Bible, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Now the first words He ever told me were "Read Your Bible", and so I did. And He told me that when I sit down to talk to the Father in the moring to always have a Bible handy so He can go over Scriptures with me, but He doesn't always go over a Scripture. Sometimes He wants to just talk to me, or He has me open another book.

I never know exactly what He is going to cover with me during my time with Him until He covers it. He is a Teacher, and a Teacher decides what the class with cover that day.

Today He didn't even want me sitting down to talk to Him; instead He asked me to go for a walk with Him. He took me on about a mile walk and talked to me about horzontal and vertical alignment.

There is a covering, or vertical alignment if you will. There is the Father, and under the Father is the Son, and under the Son is the Spirit, and under the Spirit is me. I need to, spiritually speaking, keep myself vertically aligned like that.

And then there is an alignment going forward. The Father is out in front, then the Son, then the Spirit, then my spirit, then my soul, then my flesh. When I move forward it should be in that way. And He talked about how when the Son took on flesh He had to line up like a man behind the Spirit of God.

So it was that the Spirit of God took Him out into the desert to be tested. He was following the Spirit while the Spirit was following the Father, and Jesus had to put His Spirit (which in that case was the Spirit of go) out in front, then His would and have His fleshy boddy follow. So He was tested by fasting, which required keeping His flesh in alignment and behind the rest.

Now I mention this and find it interesting because the WOF movement often is a reason movement that does not keep us both under God and behind God. It says, 'I got the Bible to get what I want, and interprete how I want.' They say they are putting their faith in God, but not staying in alignment under God and behind God is not putting your faith in God, but in yourself!! How do they miss this???

What gets said is -'I got these spiritual principles laid out in the Bible, and because I correctly believe God wrote the Bible, I can use those principle to get what I want and when I want it.'

Now perhaps they also noticed that they were supposed to do things like preach Jesus Christ, but does their preachng really match up with actually making Him your Lord. If you really look at it, it doesn't. They make Jesus Christ as if He is in some far away place and He left us the Bible as the Word of God, to follow. So they might not really following Him at all, but are saying they follow Him, while in fact they are applying spiritual principle that He set up to get what they want. So the Bible has become their Lord and their Word of God, to get what they think they should have.

Perhaps they do some good works, as they think they should, according to what is written, but they don't see it as 'their good works' because they are trying to follow the Bible. The problem is that we are not trying to follow the Bible, we are trying to follow our Lord Jesus Christ whom we can hear from because He sends His Holy Spirit who only speaks what He hears.

In their hearts they have said Jesus is in some far-away place called heaven. He left them the Bible, and they will follow it. So they cast out demons in His name, they heal the sick in His name, the prophesy in His name, and all the time they live by spiritual principles instead of hearing the small voice of the Lord and doing what He says. They might say Jesus Christ is Lord, but they don't confess the He is their Lord, because they are not hearing instructions from Him daily.

Now I have seen some who follow the Lord Jesus Christ and what He tells them by faith, and they seemed to come across as WOF people, which is fine. The Scriptures are right and we do have spiritual principle put in place by God to be used by Him as He tells us. So someone might seem like WOF people when they are very much followers of Jesus Christ. And I have seen people that seem to be followers of Jesus Christ, but I find out that while they said they were doing what Christ told them and were following Jesus Christ by faith, they were in fact actually leaning on their understanding of the Bible and the spiritual principles laid out there in.

It's not always clear, but there will be many that heal the sick in His name, cast out demons in His name, and even prophesy in His name who will be told on that day by Him, "I never knew you." And he doesn't lie. He is the Word of God that we follow by faith. That is what the Bible tells us. So make sure you are following Him, not the Bible. Make sure you actually know Jesus Christ and are not leaning on your understanding of the Bible and the spiritual principle cover in the Bible.

Your idea of what WOF is and should be is based on your presumption.

Example:
All Pentecostal are holy rollers who play with snakes.
All Baptist hate and protest Veterans at funerals.
All Catholic priest are offenders to children.

So all WOF seeks to use Bible verse for their own flesh.

Only your perspective is valid,we are to discount anything done by WOF to share the love of Christ as greed.

No need reply ,thankyou
 
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now faith

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The entire concept of this thread is a oxymoron.

We know what WOF is due to Churches and Preachers stating they follow the teaching of the WOF
core teaching.
It began with EW. Kenyon,was brought to the mainstream by Kenneth Hagin,and continues to be taught
By others along the same beliefs.
There are variables in the teaching as well as false claims of brotherhood.

What I want to know is what is a Charismatic?
Are there any examples of unity in this brand.

All the Pentecostal denominations have their own forum.

How do you suppose to know what a adjective believes in?

Example:
Wow that car sales guy was charismatic,I bought that car before I could even test drive it.
 
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K2K

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Your idea of what WOF is and should be is based on your presumption.

Example:
All Pentecostal are holy rollers who play with snakes.
All Baptist hate and protest Veterans at funerals.
All Catholic priest are offenders to children.

So all WOF seeks to use Bible verse for their own flesh.

Only your perspective is valid,we are to discount anything done by WOF to share the love of Christ as greed.

No need reply ,thankyou

Ah - that's totally wrong.

When we talk WOF, what are we saying?

WOF is a phrase or term that might mean different things to different people. If it means (to them) that they are to live by what the Bible says, and they to that instead of seeking the Lord for what to do, then they are wrong in thinking that! If it means (to them) that they are to seek the Lord for instructions and what to do, like the Bible explains, then they are correct. Both might consider themselves part of the "WOF" movement.

So I wrote "WOF movement often" and "perhaps they". I am not being presumming, but perhaps it is what you wish to think about me. Still there is a problem that can and at times does happen (it might not) come out of the WOF movement. And that problem needs addressing!

That problem has to do with leaning on our understanding of the Bible instead of seeking the Lord Jesus Christ! That's the problem.

We often raise the level of the Bible so as to put it above seeking the Lord. When someone uses the Bible to "name it and claim it" they are no longer seeking the Lord but only their desires. And plenty of people, perhaps all of us, at times to that very things, which is wrong. It is not wrong to discuss our desires with the Lord, and in fact He wants us to do that with Him, and He will consider and act upon our desires. Yet it is wrong to seek our desires without talking to Him about it. That removes Him from being our Lord, and puts us as our Lord.

I am not presumming that you do that but people have and do it to this very day. The Jews that searched the Scriptures instead of seeking the Lord for eternal life were doing that. The Galatians that had heard from the voice of the Lord and had recieved the Spirit by hearing with faith, then returned to the Law were doing that. Those many that will say to Jesus on that day, that they healed the sick in His name, cast out demons in His name, and even prophesied in His name, and He tells them that He never knew them, got in to that mess because they were doing that.

So is a "WOF" person following the Lord or following the Bible? I don't know. Are they seeking the Lord in prayer for all things and listening to what He says, or are they reading the Bible and thinking that their doing what they think it means? That's the question.

Sadly, by listening to what they say and by the actions they take, it often becomes clear that they are not seeking the Lord in their life, but are indeed leaning on their understanding of the Bible. I suspect we all do that some, yet many are going to be told by the Lord, "I never knew you!" And God doesn't lie.

The Lord and myself know each other. We walk together and talk together. He teaches me. He gives me instructions. Yeah, I too sometimes get going my way and He says "Hey, we are going this way Karl'. So I don't always stay in perfect alignment under and behind God, but we know each other. That is not because I read my Bible, but because of that I do read my Bible.

So let me ask those reading this a personal question, not that I need the answer but we all need to know this answer about ourselves.

Are you seeking Jesus Christ and what He personally has to say to you, or are you trying to follow the Bible by leaning on your understanding of it???

Or we can put the same question like Paul wrote, "This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law or by hearing with faith?"

Both the questions above are the same question!! And I am not presuming what your answer will be, but that is the only thing I want to find out from you!! Are you following the Lord by hearing with faith, or are you doing 'good works' according to your thinking? Which is also the same question. Are you following the Bible or following the small voice of the One the Bible testifies about? That's also the same question.

Perhaps we are blowing back and forth in the wind?
 
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K2K

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The entire concept of this thread is a oxymoron.

We know what WOF is due to Churches and Preachers stating they follow the teaching of the WOF
core teaching.
It began with EW. Kenyon,was brought to the mainstream by Kenneth Hagin,and continues to be taught
By others along the same beliefs.
There are variables in the teaching as well as false claims of brotherhood.

What I want to know is what is a Charismatic?
Are there any examples of unity in this brand.

All the Pentecostal denominations have their own forum.

How do you suppose to know what a adjective believes in?

Example:
Wow that car sales guy was charismatic,I bought that car before I could even test drive it.

At times we get into brands, denominations, and such, instead of into the Lord.

My understanding (and I want to stres that it is my understanding) of the difference between Pentecostal and Charismatice is mostly a difference between the belief that a person can be baptized with the Spirit with or without the gift of tongues.

It seems to me that Pentecostals believe that tongues is a direct result of being baptized in the Spirit, where as Charismatics tend to believe that tongues is a gift that we may or may not get when baptized in the Spirit.

Still it must be remembered that these are groups of people which have similar but that doesn't mean identical ideas. My ideas about God, based upon what happens and what I hear from God, is similar to the Pentecostal but it is closer to Charistmatic. Yet my ideas are closer to some Charismatic groups of people than others. Indeed, I sometime find myself agreeing with Pentecostal teachings over Charismatic teachings.

For example I love reading things from Smith Wigglesworth of Pentecostal fame. And I love reading and hearing teachings from Benny Hinn, of Charismatic fame. Yet many Charismatics that I have meet don't seem to like either of them. So perhaps I am a Pentematic or a Charicostal? It's just a brand given to a group of people, and it doesn't mean they all think the same!
 
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PersephonesTear

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My understanding (and I want to stres that it is my understanding) of the difference between Pentecostal and Charismatice is mostly a difference between the belief that a person can be baptized with the Spirit with or without the gift of tongues.
There are variances of belief from church to church, but on the base level, the difference is not theological. It's historical. Pentecostal specifically refers to denominations or groups that sprang up at or around the turn of the 20th century as a result of Azusa Street. The major ones are Church of God, Assemblies of God, and Foursquare. There are also splinter groups that broke off from them along the way... But... that's essentially what makes a church "Pentecostal" rather than "Charismatic."

Charismatic is any group or denomination that believes in the baptism of the holy spirit, gifts of the spirit, ect. as being for today. It sprang up a few decades after the Pentecostals, but they are basically the same thing from a belief stand-point.

Of course... there are also tons of other theologies that have touched various Pentecostal and/or Charismatic communities to a greater or lesser degree, each of which have further affects upon a given community's complexity of belief. That's where stuff like WoF comes in, or "deliverance" ministries, and ALL SORTS of controversial doctrines that folks will be debating until the cows come home. And by "cows" I mean us. And by "home" I mean to Jesus. :)
 
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now faith

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Ah - that's totally wrong.

When we talk WOF, what are we saying?

WOF is a phrase or term that might mean different things to different people. If it means (to them) that they are to live by what the Bible says, and they to that instead of seeking the Lord for what to do, then they are wrong in thinking that! If it means (to them) that they are to seek the Lord for instructions and what to do, like the Bible explains, then they are correct. Both might consider themselves part of the "WOF" movement.

So I wrote "WOF movement often" and "perhaps they". I am not being presumming, but perhaps it is what you wish to think about me. Still there is a problem that can and at times does happen (it might not) come out of the WOF movement. And that problem needs addressing!

That problem has to do with leaning on our understanding of the Bible instead of seeking the Lord Jesus Christ! That's the problem.

We often raise the level of the Bible so as to put it above seeking the Lord. When someone uses the Bible to "name it and claim it" they are no longer seeking the Lord but only their desires. And plenty of people, perhaps all of us, at times to that very things, which is wrong. It is not wrong to discuss our desires with the Lord, and in fact He wants us to do that with Him, and He will consider and act upon our desires. Yet it is wrong to seek our desires without talking to Him about it. That removes Him from being our Lord, and puts us as our Lord.

I am not presumming that you do that but people have and do it to this very day. The Jews that searched the Scriptures instead of seeking the Lord for eternal life were doing that. The Galatians that had heard from the voice of the Lord and had recieved the Spirit by hearing with faith, then returned to the Law were doing that. Those many that will say to Jesus on that day, that they healed the sick in His name, cast out demons in His name, and even prophesied in His name, and He tells them that He never knew them, got in to that mess because they were doing that.

So is a "WOF" person following the Lord or following the Bible? I don't know. Are they seeking the Lord in prayer for all things and listening to what He says, or are they reading the Bible and thinking that their doing what they think it means? That's the question.

Sadly, by listening to what they say and by the actions they take, it often becomes clear that they are not seeking the Lord in their life, but are indeed leaning on their understanding of the Bible. I suspect we all do that some, yet many are going to be told by the Lord, "I never knew you!" And God doesn't lie.

The Lord and myself know each other. We walk together and talk together. He teaches me. He gives me instructions. Yeah, I too sometimes get going my way and He says "Hey, we are going this way Karl'. So I don't always stay in perfect alignment under and behind God, but we know each other. That is not because I read my Bible, but because of that I do read my Bible.

So let me ask those reading this a personal question, not that I need the answer but we all need to know this answer about ourselves.

Are you seeking Jesus Christ and what He personally has to say to you, or are you trying to follow the Bible by leaning on your understanding of it???

Or we can put the same question like Paul wrote, "This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law or by hearing with faith?"

Both the questions above are the same question!! And I am not presuming what your answer will be, but that is the only thing I want to find out from you!! Are you following the Lord by hearing with faith, or are you doing 'good works' according to your thinking? Which is also the same question. Are you following the Bible or following the small voice of the One the Bible testifies about? That's also the same question.

Perhaps we are blowing back and forth in the wind?

What business is it of yours?
Do you question the motives of other denominations?
Do you have a denomination or core belief you share with others?
As a Charismatic do you find unity among others that have the same title?
Are you responsible for the actions of all Charisma in religion?

There are many cults that do not profess Christ,go grind a axe and spread the good news.

It is easy to criticise others when your doctrinal belief is hidden.
You can just make it up as needed to fit your fancy.

Stop and think about your statement for a moment.....

Quote:
[So is a "WOF" person following the Lord or following the Bible? I don't know. Are they seeking the Lord in prayer for all things and] listening to what He says, or are they reading the Bible and thinking that their doing what they think it means? That's the question]
John: 1. 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. The same was in the beginning with God. 3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

I do not know what version you read,But the Word of God is the only Word to understand.
if you are seeking revelation out side of God's word and believe Christ would contradict his word in answering your prayer....

I think I must have misinterpreted your statement at least I hope so.
 
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now faith

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At times we get into brands, denominations, and such, instead of into the Lord.

My understanding (and I want to stres that it is my understanding) of the difference between Pentecostal and Charismatice is mostly a difference between the belief that a person can be baptized with the Spirit with or without the gift of tongues.

It seems to me that Pentecostals believe that tongues is a direct result of being baptized in the Spirit, where as Charismatics tend to believe that tongues is a gift that we may or may not get when baptized in the Spirit.

Still it must be remembered that these are groups of people which have similar but that doesn't mean identical ideas. My ideas about God, based upon what happens and what I hear from God, is similar to the Pentecostal but it is closer to Charistmatic. Yet my ideas are closer to some Charismatic groups of people than others. Indeed, I sometime find myself agreeing with Pentecostal teachings over Charismatic teachings.

For example I love reading things from Smith Wigglesworth of Pentecostal fame. And I love reading and hearing teachings from Benny Hinn, of Charismatic fame. Yet many Charismatics that I have meet don't seem to like either of them. So perhaps I am a Pentematic or a Charicostal? It's just a brand given to a group of people, and it doesn't mean they all think the same!

It seems you have one thing in common,the obsession with debunking Word Of Faith.
 
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now faith

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There are variances of belief from church to church, but on the base level, the difference is not theological. It's historical. Pentecostal specifically refers to denominations or groups that sprang up at or around the turn of the 20th century as a result of Azusa Street. The major ones are Church of God, Assemblies of God, and Foursquare. There are also splinter groups that broke off from them along the way... But... that's essentially what makes a church "Pentecostal" rather than "Charismatic."

Charismatic is any group or denomination that believes in the baptism of the holy spirit, gifts of the spirit, ect. as being for today. It sprang up a few decades after the Pentecostals, but they are basically the same thing from a belief stand-point.

Of course... there are also tons of other theologies that have touched various Pentecostal and/or Charismatic communities to a greater or lesser degree, each of which have further affects upon a given community's complexity of belief. That's where stuff like WoF comes in, or "deliverance" ministries, and ALL SORTS of controversial doctrines that folks will be debating until the cows come home. And by "cows" I mean us. And by "home" I mean to Jesus. :)

Well from that view Azusa street was a controversial doctrine.
The Pentecostals in that time criticised Azusa as much as any one else.
Asus street was not the origin of Penacostals although it brought a mighty fire to the world,prior to Azusa the Pentecostal
Was considered part of the Holiness movement.
 
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PersephonesTear

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Well from that view Azusa street was a controversial doctrine.
The Pentecostals in that time criticised Azusa as much as any one else.
Asus street was not the origin of Penacostals although it brought a mighty fire to the world,prior to Azusa the Pentecostal
Was considered part of the Holiness movement.
Well first off, Azusa Street wasn't a doctrine - it was the name of the place where a "revival" happened. The doctrine was that spiritual gifts are for today. And sure, there was controversy. Whether there was or was not has no bearing on my post. My post was about the reason there are two different words that refer to the same doctrine - that speaking in tongues and other spiritual gifts are for our current era. There are two different words used because different groups adopted the doctrine at different times.

However, stating that it was the "Pentecostals" of the time criticizing is not accurate, because until the Azusa Street event, the word "Pentecostal" was NOT being used to refer to a group of individuals who followed a specific subset of Christian belief. Prior to Azusa, people who were part of the Holiness Movement weren't calling themselves Pentecostals. That was just the group out of which Pentecostals eventually emerged, but the term "Pentecostal" in its current usage was not employed until they began to emerge as a separate movement.

Now, if you can produce some kind of primary source that refers to "Pentecostals" as being a fringe group within the Holiness Movement, I would concede the point. But I doubt it matters enough to either of us to scour the primary sources that are still available on the early Holiness Movement and the early days of Pentecostalism given the fact that it's not relevant to the subject of the thread - which is to define what Word of Faith is, not Pentecostal.
 
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There are variances of belief from church to church, but on the base level, the difference is not theological. It's historical. Pentecostal specifically refers to denominations or groups that sprang up at or around the turn of the 20th century as a result of Azusa Street. The major ones are Church of God, Assemblies of God, and Foursquare. There are also splinter groups that broke off from them along the way... But... that's essentially what makes a church "Pentecostal" rather than "Charismatic."

Charismatic is any group or denomination that believes in the baptism of the holy spirit, gifts of the spirit, ect. as being for today. It sprang up a few decades after the Pentecostals, but they are basically the same thing from a belief stand-point.

Of course... there are also tons of other theologies that have touched various Pentecostal and/or Charismatic communities to a greater or lesser degree, each of which have further affects upon a given community's complexity of belief. That's where stuff like WoF comes in, or "deliverance" ministries, and ALL SORTS of controversial doctrines that folks will be debating until the cows come home. And by "cows" I mean us. And by "home" I mean to Jesus. :)

:thumbsup: Good enough. It sounds like you are making simply about the actual denomenation, and that's fine with me. I've heard different thoughts on it, but I good with just making it a denomenation thing.
 
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