WOF ..what is it

[Alithis]

I pick up so many small "bits" of what it really is .
and i suspect they are not all bad bits .
no let me reword that .. they certainly are not all bad bits

some of you know me by now ,, i can and do reason . I do recognize when a point becomes an"intellectual impass "and understand the need to leave that point for the sake of peace .

so i see mostly (because they are shouted about the loudest) the extremism.
and i know for sure extremists are for the most part a minority of ANY denomination .
they are the ones doing the outrageous claiming of beach houses and porcshes lol.

now it actually got me thinking - perhaps they are indeed a testament of proclaiming something by faith ... !and receiving it .

the Lord did say what ever you ask in my name , believing ,it will be done for you ..
however .. he also said , seek first the kingdom of GOD
and he also said .. if you seek treasure on earth ..then, basically, .. you dont get them in heaven .

so i consider this , just because some extremists take the principle and use it for WORLDLY GAIN (as it is written some do) .that does not invalidate a principle at work .. .all it does it causes them to bring shame on the Gospel ,disrepute to the Church and put themselves in danger of severe judgment .

but the priciples remain true .

let me use the Pentecostal denomination with which i am fully familiar having grown up in it before any one used the term "charismatic" (why they changed the term i still don't know ) the same principle of "misuse of abilities" applies .
ie -you have some preacher who is gifted in laying hands on and signs and wonders follow and he becomes popular builds a huge church gets himself a huge stipend ,flash house cool car ..or in short uses it for WORLDY GAIN ..

Again- that does not invalidate the gifting .. it just makes him guilty of using that gifting for a purpose Other then what it was given .

So if word of faith is all about :claiming things in Faith .. then let the thing we claim be Wholly for the good of the kingdom of God and never for our own Gain ..ie ,, to save our lost family members etc .

Now im not under the umbrella of WOF ..but i think it would be wrong to throw out the basic foundational principles merely because some have taken those principles and wrongfully used them .
if "those " seek the things of this world ..then they have their reward (and James adds a woe into that earthly reward .that principle remains true also )

Any way my point is .. IF WOF is what i have seen it to be ,if im understanding it right .is it fair to say what I have said ?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

A PERFECT demonstration of Biblical "Word of Faith" is "Salvation".

When Faith in the Sin offering of Jesus is there, you "Speak - without doubt in your heart" that you have been SAVED by His sacrifice, and you will Receive what you say - in faith - i.e. relationship with Father through the sacrifice of His Son, and an eternal home with him when physical life is over.

Faith is the SUBSTANCE (the established reality) of what you're hoping for, and the EVIDENCE which proves the reality of what you don't see - yet.

 

[Alive_Again]

It's interesting that when people consider what WOF is, it's largely about the pursuit of money. Believing God for your finances is one thing, but ultimately it's just taking God at His Word.

It's really just taking God at His Word and basing your life as though it is true. It's learning how to exercise your faith in what God said. One of the safest things you can do to exercise your faith is to use it on the basic promises of God. That's your foundation, 1) repentance from dead works, and 2) faith in God.

The reason we sometimes don't have faith for even the basics is because the repentance from dead works isn't there first. Our own sense of sins robs us and keeps us in the realm of doublemindedness.

Assuming the first is taken care of (and at some level, you have to be able to believe in your own repentance), you rise up.

So in spite of all of your feelings, if you're repentant, you exercise faith by declaring the righteousness of God as your inheritance. You declare what Jesus did on the cross and consider yourself dead (a real act of faith!) and alive unto God. You preach it to one another because this is the only way you're going to get the divine nature flowing in you. It's receiving the leaven of the Spirit to agree with God's Word. It gives the Holy Spirit something to agree with in your life.

You apply it by faith for your righteousness, protection, hope, comfort, restoration, promise of eternal life, etc. The tongue is full of blessing and cursing, depending on what source you're receiving from. So to declare the Word as your higher reality initiates the power of blessing in your own life (assuming the first point is also a reality).

Learning not to be doubleminded by holding fast to your confession of faith (now becoming a dirty byword among non-WOF people) and keeping the Word in your mouth at all times (to encourage yourself and others) is part of the prescription God gave Joshua (who is our type in the Spirit of the overcomer).

Joshua still had to follow God's prescription to obtain the promises, but they had to believe them first to qualify. If you do meditate on God's Word all of the time and keep it in your mouth (in order to observe to do ALL), then you'll partake of the supernatural strengthening that is literally in the promise itself.

For those who do not have that revelation, it must seem very presumptuous to declare this over your life time and again. They're just taking their medicine. You still have to "observe to do". Some non-WOF people take issue with people not receiving promises and cite all of the "saying" as trying to convince God by your much speaking, but you're convincing you in the face of the current of unbelief all around us. The failure (if there is one) is not following the rest of the instructions (in your heart). That's something ALL believers should be able to identify with and relate to.

Getting rid of the "if" in your words and actions. If you're not receiving the power that's in the promise itself, then you only have your own steam which does not usually receive. This often leads to "if it be your will", well I guess it wasn't because I didn't receive.

It's important to listen to the lessons people like Hagin provide through their own long efforts to enter in. 'You believe as far as you know" (that didn't enter in). It has to go to the next level of believing before you have and the only way to get there is to get the promise firmly established in your heart and soul.

AA


"“Do you want the atmosphere in your home to change? You’re going to have to do it. If you’re tired of the attacks of the enemy? If you’re sick of the situation you’re in? If you want to get rid of lack? If you want to get rid of attitudes? If you want to shut the door in the enemy’s face? Start shouting glories to God. He is not going to hang around and listen. In your worst desperate times, that is the most powerful thing you can do, is to praise God. All of Heaven will come to your rescue."
-- Kat Kerr

 

[AbbaLove]

A PERFECT demonstration of Biblical "Word of Faith" is "Salvation".

When Faith in the Sin offering of Jesus is there, you "Speak - without doubt in your heart" that you have been SAVED by His sacrifice, and you will Receive what you say - in faith - i.e. relationship with Father through the sacrifice of His Son, and an eternal home with him when physical life is over.

Faith is the SUBSTANCE (the established reality) of what you're hoping for, and the EVIDENCE which proves the reality of what you don't see - yet.

​

The WOF Movement has existed for thousands of years. It's found throughout the NT as well as the OT as summarized by Paul in Hebrews 11:1-40.

That said i do appreciate the inspiring WOF teaching of Jerry Savelle, Jeremy Pearson and many, many others within the greater body of the Bride of Christ.

 

[Faulty]

It's a regret and about 15 years of my life I wish I had back.

 

[TillICollapse]

I'm fairly ignorant of it as a "movement", or denomination. My understanding is that they believe if you read a scripture and believe it in your heart, then it will be so for you, etc. That the principle is that if God says it, and they believe it, that's that.

I don't know if they DONT believe it what the outcome will be of themselves, however. What if God says it, but you struggle to believe it, is it still true for you ?

If my understanding is a decent and quick summary that actually applies, what I don't see, is the difference between WoF and any other denomination that attempts to appeal to or justify something via scripture as some kind of principle or law. IOW, I see it as all legalism regardless.

 

[ARBITER01]

From what I read and understood a while back, about the only thing it can be considered as is a teaching movement. It's not a denomination because it infiltrates it's teaching into any denomination to add it's principles in the mix. Whether it be Catholics to Pentecostals, all faith groups can be affected by it.

Although CF has designated these folks with a faith group forum here, they are not a faith group as a known denomination would be.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"I'm fairly ignorant of it as a "movement", or denomination. My understanding is that they believe if you read a scripture and believe it in your heart, then it will be so for you, etc. That the principle is that if God says it, and they believe it, that's that."

Mark 11:22-24:
22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

The TRICK to this is the CONDITIONAL STATEMENT: "and shall not doubt in his heart,"

It's another way of Saying "Has Faith". "FAITH" isn't "Intellectual assent" to a Biblical promise. It's the ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE in God, that the PROMISE is YOURS. And if God didn't TELL YOU by the Holy Spirit that it's yours, in terms you can understand - then it's NOT yours, no matter how vigorously you "Profess it, and PRETEND to believe. YOU CAN'T PRETEND to "Not Doubt in your heart" when you DO "Doubt".

Simple as that.

"What if God says it, but you struggle to believe it, is it still true for you ?"

If you don't believe what God SAYS (in terms you can understand),then there's NO FAITH, and nothing to build a "Claim" on.

When you became a CHRISTIAN, The Holy Spirit bore witness with YOUR spirit that you had become a child of God, and as a result, you proclaim to other WITHOUT DOUBT that you're saved.

"Popular WoF" often teaches folks to PRETEND they have faith - which only gets REALLY DANGEROUS when physical HEALING is involved. "BIBLICAL Faith" is always a revelation FROM HIM to you. It was for Hagin in the beginning.

 

[TillICollapse]

"I'm fairly ignorant of it as a "movement", or denomination. My understanding is that they believe if you read a scripture and believe it in your heart, then it will be so for you, etc. That the principle is that if God says it, and they believe it, that's that."

Mark 11:22-24:
22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

The TRICK to this is the CONDITIONAL STATEMENT: "and shall not doubt in his heart,"

It's another way of Saying "Has Faith". "FAITH" isn't "Intellectual assent" to a Biblical promise. It's the ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE in God, that the PROMISE is YOURS. And if God didn't TELL YOU by the Holy Spirit that it's yours, in terms you can understand - then it's NOT yours, no matter how vigorously you "Profess it, and PRETEND to believe. YOU CAN'T PRETEND to "Not Doubt in your heart" when you DO "Doubt".

Simple as that.

"What if God says it, but you struggle to believe it, is it still true for you ?"

If you don't believe what God SAYS (in terms you can understand),then there's NO FAITH, and nothing to build a "Claim" on.

When you became a CHRISTIAN, The Holy Spirit bore witness with YOUR spirit that you had become a child of God, and as a result, you proclaim to other WITHOUT DOUBT that you're saved.

"Popular WoF" often teaches folks to PRETEND they have faith - which only gets REALLY DANGEROUS when physical HEALING is involved. "BIBLICAL Faith" is always a revelation FROM HIM to you. It was for Hagin in the beginning.

In other words, I interpret this to mean that the "Word of Faith" movement is about personal revelation. Revelation = God shows you personally somehow.

 

[Alive_Again]

It's the ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE in God, that the PROMISE is YOURS. And if God didn't TELL YOU by the Holy Spirit that it's yours, in terms you can understand - then it's NOT yours, no matter how vigorously you "Profess it, and PRETEND to believe. YOU CAN'T PRETEND to "Not Doubt in your heart" when you DO "Doubt".

Au contraire...

The promises of God are designated for every believer (right now). You don't have to have the Holy Spirit speak prophetically to you for it to be yours. To enter into them, you have to mix faith with the promise (but it's still yours positionally). To have faith, you have to bear witness to that truth in your spirit. We're told to receive the Word as a light that shines in a (sometimes) dark place. That means that even when your hearing is altered by the winds of circumstances, that your foundation is still in place for you to rise up and stand on.

You're not pretending to stand on it. One of the benefits of the written Word of God is that God doesn't have to say it all over again for it to be true. He said it once. Once you get the revelation of Who and what the Word of God is, that truth is the same as when He first spoke it.

He doesn't have to declare it again. Who has believed the report of the Lord? The report has already gone out. "What shall we say to these things?" To receive it as spiritual leaven (as a yielded believer) begins the work of transformation in you. It's not a game of pretend. It's the renewal process and it must be "worked" in the rest of faith.

Furthermore, the Word of the kingdom is received in the garden of your heart as a seed. It doesn't always bear fruit immediately. It has a growth process that results in fruit (if allowed to grow to maturity. Part of tending your garden is to meditate on that Word day and night. Allow God's light to shine on it and to water it and keep it planted by the rivers of living water.

If you just plant the seed and let your garden go, it will surely die.

Your can view the profession of your faith as a declaration of light into darkness and the setting forth of your rudder (tongue) against fierce winds of opposition). There is going to be opposition to your receiving. We must do what Jesus did and declare truth "It is written". The power is in the promise. It is literally the weapons of our warfare (from top to bottom).

Never stop declaring the covenant truth of the Word even if you don't have a harvest in a specific promise. Just follow it through and it will come to pass.

The safest thing is standing (hearing and doing, which includes declaring) on the covenant promises to all believers and it will be a firm foundation.

 

[TillICollapse]

Au contraire...

The promises of God are designated for every believer (right now). You don't have to have the Holy Spirit speak prophetically to you for it to be yours. To enter into them, you have to mix faith with the promise (but it's still yours positionally). To have faith, you have to bear witness to that truth in your spirit.

Explain what you personally mean by bearing witness to a truth in your spirit. I translate that as either:

* the Holy Spirit revealing the truth there (which would contradict your second sentence)
* my heart believing God and thus bearing witness to the truth in my spirit

Is this close or are you meaning it differently ?

I would also define faith differently than how you and Bob Carabbio are using it, but that's besides the point at this moment ...

 

[Optimax]

The basic fundamental belief of WOF is that God does not lie and His Promises can be realized by whosoever will.

 

[contango]

Au contraire...

The promises of God are designated for every believer (right now). You don't have to have the Holy Spirit speak prophetically to you for it to be yours. To enter into them, you have to mix faith with the promise (but it's still yours positionally). To have faith, you have to bear witness to that truth in your spirit. We're told to receive the Word as a light that shines in a (sometimes) dark place. That means that even when your hearing is altered by the winds of circumstances, that your foundation is still in place for you to rise up and stand on.

How do you know which promises are for every believer throughout time and which were intended in a specific situation?

For instance, does the promise to "add to your days fifteen years" (2Ki 20:6) apply to anyone who is nearing death and wants to live longer?

You're not pretending to stand on it. One of the benefits of the written Word of God is that God doesn't have to say it all over again for it to be true. He said it once. Once you get the revelation of Who and what the Word of God is, that truth is the same as when He first spoke it.

It's still true even if it doesn't apply to us. If God made a promise to someone and subsequently kept the promise, how do we get to claim the exact same promise as if it were made directly to us?

Last year I helped a friend move house. He asked if I could help shift some stuff for him, and I said I would. Then at the due time I turned up, helped shift some stuff, and my promise was kept, my obligation fulfilled. I wouldn't expect someone else to come knocking at my door in years to come saying that I'd promised to help shift some stuff and they expected me to honour my promise.

Your can view the profession of your faith as a declaration of light into darkness and the setting forth of your rudder (tongue) against fierce winds of opposition). There is going to be opposition to your receiving. We must do what Jesus did and declare truth "It is written". The power is in the promise. It is literally the weapons of our warfare (from top to bottom).

"It is written" is good, as long as it doesn't fall foul of "it is also written". When the devil tempted Jesus his attempt to encourage Jesus to throw himself from the high place was based on an accurate quotation from Scripture, it was just taken out of context and misapplied. Hence Jesus countered with a more relevant Scripture.

If you or I threw ourselves down from a high place, arguing "it is written: For He shall give His angels charge over you, To keep you in all your ways.
In their hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone. " (from Ps 91:11-12) it is unlikely to end well however much we believe.

 

[Alive_Again]

Explain what you personally mean by bearing witness to a truth in your spirit. I translate that as either:

* the Holy Spirit revealing the truth there (which would contradict your second sentence)
* my heart believing God and thus bearing witness to the truth in my spirit

Is this close or are you meaning it differently ?

Sorry for the vagueness. I realize that all leadings and promptings in any form might be seen as the "voice of the Shepherd" via the Holy Spirit). I'm referring to when He speaks using the gift of prophecy in a way that your soul receives the word clearly.

This means that He doesn't have to read the Bible to you for it to be applicable in your life. You do need a revelation of it to really enter into most things. Some of it He just kind of drops on you without any real effort by His grace (without having to fight for it).

I would also define faith differently than how you and Bob Carabbio are using it, but that's besides the point at this moment ...

If faith comes by hearing, then it is the revealed Word of God in your spirit that brings faith. This is the "voice" in this instance. It can "dawn" on you, so you set yourself to believe even before the day dawns completely in your spirit. Understanding often is formed. It might come all at once, but since it's a walk of faith, we move on the parts that the light begins to shine inside of you.

All of the declaring that takes so much criticism in WOF is appropriate even before faith comes. In fact, you can believe before faith comes. When faith comes, the reality or manifestation of that comes (or soon thereafter). Along the way, you hold fast to the profession of your "faith" in the promise as a seed, or as a planting of that seed within you.

You agree with what the Word or the Spirit of God says and keep saying it. You can get a general revelation of the truth of the Word long before the individual promises become real and alive to you. So you plant and don't become double-minded. Since the enemy would have you to doubt, speaking the Word of Faith releases power already resident in the Word. If you're yielded, this release helps to fortify your own spirit. Once you start declaring the Word over your life and begin to partake of the power in the Word when you do, you'll be "one of those" who avail themselves to it and partake of its nourishment.

There's something you get out of the Word by speaking it out loud over just reading it to yourself.

 

[Alive_Again]

How do you know which promises are for every believer throughout time and which were intended in a specific situation?

The general promises to the believer should be fairly obvious. Start with the Words of Jesus. Sometimes His benefits and faithfulness and protection are declared in the Psalms or the prophets. Go with the ones you're sure about.

For instance, does the promise to "add to your days fifteen years" (2Ki 20:6) apply to anyone who is nearing death and wants to live longer?

I would guess that He would have to kind of give you a little sense of vision that is available for you. It's not something others can tell you. Ps 91 mentions being satisfied with long life. If you were faithful, then I would guess you could barter for more years. There is a precedent. I don't think He owes it anyone. He's the judge and He knows what's available to you based on your life.

It's still true even if it doesn't apply to us. If God made a promise to someone and subsequently kept the promise, how do we get to claim the exact same promise as if it were made directly to us?

I remember the word about a "general word" of prophecy being available. It's helpful to know that. You won't think it into oblivion in the uncertainy. But you still have to have faith for the promise to flow into you. I guess the answer is in your spirit.

I wouldn't expect someone else to come knocking at my door in years to come saying that I'd promised to help shift some stuff and they expected me to honour my promise.

I hope not!

I guess He's the judge of that.

So much of what you might receive is, "If you abide in Me, and My Words abide in you". Some think this to be a permanent condition, but it clearly is not. If you're abiding, you'll have a certain wisdom that tends to clarify some things and make the choices more obvious.

...it is unlikely to end well however much we believe.

A good demonstration of why believing is not faith. It should accompany the Word for a submitted believer, but people believe all sorts of weird stuff (which the enemy also uses).

 

[Alithis]

A good demonstration of why believing is not faith. It should accompany the Word for a submitted believer, but people believe all sorts of weird stuff (which the enemy also uses).

yes it should accompany the word (written) be in harmony ,concorde ,agreement with the written word ..this is a major way we know ti is the Holy Spirit speaking . the written word is our safe-net .
as the poster you are responding to pointed out .."not every "promise" in the bible is for every one at every time" .. but of course we know it is taking a somewhat pedantic approach . because the promises referred to are the Spiritual principles of life in the Holy Spirit as declared in the new testament /
and these promises (principles) are true and faithful .
but as i point out on my OP ..that does not mean every one uses them for the purpose of Godly love for which they are given .some use them for worldly gain .. and in that , i purpose ,they have already received their reward .
because the principles of the new testament are ALL faithful and true .including the principle that if you have it here -you don't get it there .and will be held accountable for what you do with it .

 

[now faith]

We know the truth in Bible teaching,such as without faith it is impossible to please God

Christ said have faith in God.

It is so odd that people will shout from a housetop I'm born again.
They are true in faith there life hereafter will be in Heaven.

But a small affliction comes up,and they spaz.

 

[TasManOfGod]

To sum it up I would say that WoF is like believing all the promises of God in the same manner as we all believe our sins are forgiven.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"In other words, I interpret this to mean that the "Word of Faith" movement is about personal revelation. Revelation = God shows you personally somehow."

Unfortunately NOT

The "Popular WoF Movement" is about pretending to believe what you really don't necessarily believe, and "Acting as though you did" consistently.

BIBLICAL WoF (like salvation) is when one believes what God HAS SAID to him, and puts his trust in THAT. The Written Word IS the Word of God, but NOT NECESSARILY YOURS NOW just because you want it to be.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Non WoF is when you doubt wether God's promises are for you.