Wives vs submission to husbands vs submission to Jesus

[Victory-N-Christ]

Here's another thing.Neither parent has a problem with the scripture that says that children must obey them. But then when it comes time for the parents to submit and obey their heads all kinds of reasons why it's too hard to do may pop up.Some men like to blame feminists. Why is that?

 

[-57]

Now I know some are going to disagree with me but a smart woman will look at the example of Adam and Eve and use it to figure out that a woman can persuade a man to do anything.I mean scripture clearly stated that Eve persuaded Adam to eat the forbidden fruit.Even when he knew God said don't do it.What'd he do? Ate it all up.So God put a stop to it by putting Adam in charge and taking away much of Eve's "power" over him or her influence over him.At least that's my take on it.It's not my intention to downgrade women by sharing that.I'm still trying to figure a lot of things out.

We can speculate as to what happened...but just for the record, I looked in Genesis and didn't see where Eve persuaded Adam to eat from the tree.
Gen 3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate....just saying.

It seems as if Eve was deceived and Adam knew what he was about to do. The answer is why?

I've heard two stories. Maybe some had heard others which would be interesting to hear. The first is Eve said she would stop sex unless Adam ate. The second is Adam knew Eve would be doomed and Adam loved Eve so much he wanted to be with her and the only way was for Adam to eat....so he did. As i said, sheer speculation.

 

[Johnnz]

Now I know some are going to disagree with me but a smart woman will look at the example of Adam and Eve and use it to figure out that a woman can persuade a man to do anything.I mean scripture clearly stated that Eve persuaded Adam to eat the forbidden fruit.Even when he knew God said don't do it.What'd he do? Ate it all up.So God put a stop to it by putting Adam in charge and taking away much of Eve's "power" over him or her influence over him.At least that's my take on it.It's not my intention to downgrade women by sharing that.I'm still trying to figure a lot of things out.

That's not quite right IMHO.

Adam was there all along. He did not intervene. He was as desirous as she was possibly.

Adam was not put in charge over Eve. God indicated what sin would do the the husband wife relationship. Men would harshly dominate instead of engaging in loving mutual intimacy and relationship. Women would react to that. Those statements are not prescriptive (what you must do) but descriptive, (what will happen now). Jesus brought an end to that on the cross.

John
NZ

 

[Solomons Porch]

No, don't leave. I am enjoying your posts. You have got a lot of insight into marriage and need to share. There's a lot of theoretical stuff going around when it comes to marriage but we need practical stuff like what you have been sharing.

Marriage is very practical. I call it a school. We enter it to learn. A lot of things that apply in an individual's life do not apply in marriage. For instance a single preacher may go preach anywhere he feels the Lord leading him to go. A married preacher needs to seek his wife's views. He may feel something strongly in his heart yet if he ignores his wife's plea not to go he would be offending God.

When married the family becomes the first mission ground. You don't go evangelising other souls unless you have taken care of the first congregation God has given you - your family. There be some who will disagree but experience has taught me this is how it goes. When the Lord said that the two shall be one he meant it. You become one and do things together. My two pennies.

Amen and amen, the family is the first mission ground. Get your house in order first. The two of them are one people, one in everything, they made a covenant before God. Dare one to think that this covenant has no importance. Very well said

 

[Paidiske]

OP, it seems to me there are two different sets of questions running through your thread.

One is, how do I know when and how it is appropriate to submit? (Hence the differences of opinion on how marriage should work; and on that, I'm with the folks who don't see marriage as a hierarchy but as a unity).

And the other is, when I do know, why do I (we) sometimes not do it? (I mean, yes, it's sin, but what's driving that sin?) And I think there the answer is that often we're afraid. In the Adam and Eve story, it seems to me that Eve taking the apple is driven by her fear of not being "wise," for example.

Hey wait a minute.Women do sneaky things to set their man off.They have their own way of getting even.Oh they can be sneaky...

Yes, often true. However, sneakiness is often a sin of the powerless; what someone resorts to when straightforward means are not available. If a wife is being "sneaky," is it because her husband didn't take her needs into account in the first place?

 

[Solomons Porch]

Here's another thing.Neither parent has a problem with the scripture that says that children must obey them. But then when it comes time for the parents to submit and obey their heads all kinds of reasons why it's too hard to do may pop up.Some men like to blame feminists. Why is that?

Pride and selfish desire

 

[Big Drew]

Here's another thing.Neither parent has a problem with the scripture that says that children must obey them. But then when it comes time for the parents to submit and obey their heads all kinds of reasons why it's too hard to do may pop up.Some men like to blame feminists. Why is that?

In biblical times women were not equal to men. Just as in many eastern countries today. Here in the modern west we view men and women as equal, thanks to the feminist movement that started in the late 19th and early 20th centuries...I actually think the Bible shows gender equality...but it also shows there are different roles that men and women play.

This is one thing I think the feminist movement did that was good...however, some have taken this to the extreme to say a husband has no authority over his wife, they say they're equals and in many aspects this is true...but there are those that take it even further and while screaming equality, they have actually put the woman in authority over the man.

Men and women are equal in the sight of God, they should manage their household together, in an equal partnership...but there are differences in regards to what they do...and, it should be understood that the final decision for household matters rests on the man...but a good husband will always consult his wife and take her thoughts into account.

 

[Victory-N-Christ]

We can speculate as to what happened...but just for the record, I looked in Genesis and didn't see where Eve persuaded Adam to eat from the tree.
Gen 3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate....just saying.

It seems as if Eve was deceived and Adam knew what he was about to do. The answer is why?

I've heard two stories. Maybe some had heard others which would be interesting to hear. The first is Eve said she would stop sex unless Adam ate. The second is Adam knew Eve would be doomed and Adam loved Eve so much he wanted to be with her and the only way was for Adam to eat....so he did. As i said, sheer speculation.

I've heard all kinds of stories about Adam and Eve and why he ate the fruit e.t.c.Gen 3:17 And unto Adam He said,"Because thou hast *hearkened unto the voice of thy wife*,and hast eaten of the tree,of which I commanded thee saying ,thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground...) Well it sure sounded like Eve somehow persuaded Adam. I mean he listened to her and did eat.But anyway I don't want to speculate...

 

[joshua 1 9]

I can understand that women don't want to be some guy's doormat or sex box but the truth is that sex is a part of marriage.

The wife is to submit to the husband to the degree that he is in submission to Christ. So that her obligation is to Christ not the husband. It is his job to help her to be everything God wants to her to be. Just as Jesus is doing a work in the Church His Bride so that she is pure without spot, blemish or wrinkle and this means the flesh is to be pure. God's love is a sacrificial love. Jesus gave Himself and sacrificed Himself for the Bride the Church. In this that husband is to sacrifice himself for his wife and family, to provide for their needs and to keep them save and protected. No where does the Bible suggest that she is to submit to the desires of his flesh. Just the opposite we are to overcome the flesh and live in the Spirit.

 

[RDKirk]

I've made this testimony before.

About thirty years ago, my marriage was against the rocks. My wife and I were not fussing and cussing, but we had drifted apart, the love was not there, and we both knew it.

One evening, I was up in our bedroom praying ernestly, "Lord, tell me what to do to save my marriage."

The Holy Spirit came to me clearly with Ephesians 5:25: "Love your wife as I love the church and gave Myself up for her."

I knew what He meant--He meant doing all that mushy stuff my wife had pleaded for, things I'd resisted doing.

So I argued with the Lord: "I work hard, I bring the money home, I pay the bills, I'm not running around, I do what I'm supposed to do!"

The Lord responded, "You have not given yourself up for your wife."

I still resisted: "What if I do that and she doesn't respond?"

The Lord said: "What she does is my business. Will you obey me? Yes or no?"

So I gave in. I got off my knees and headed downstairs. I intended to tell my wife that I was going to love her as she wanted to be loved, and I'd do it whether she responded or not.

My wife met me on the stairs. She told me that she had been in the kitchen praying to the Lord for a way to save her marriage. She said the Lord had told her, "Submit to your husband."

She had argued, then had said, "What if I submit to him, but he still doesn't love me?"

She said the Holy Spirit had responded, "What he does is my business. Will you obey me?"

So she was coming upstairs to tell me that she would submit to me, even if I didn't love her in return.

We sat on the stairs and cried together, and praised the Lord, for a good long while.

That was thirty years ago. We just came back an hour ago from a trip to Ikea picking up some items for the house.

There are a whole lot of Christian husbands paying 'way too close attention to Ephesians 5:22--which actually has nothing to do with them. Ephesians 5:22 is totally a matter between wives and the Lord. It's a command from the Lord to Christian wives, and Christian wives are accountable to the Lord for obedience to His commands. It's not our command, it's the Lord's command; husbands have nothing to do with it.

Christian husbands don't pay much attention to Ephesians 5:25. In particular, it's rare that a husband actually gives his self up for his wife. His own identity, his own being, his own independence, his own proclivities, his own wants and desires, his self. Most husbands marry and continue to cling to self. They judge their wive's disobedience and fail to look at their own.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I've heard all kinds of stories about Adam and Eve and why he ate the fruit e.t.c.Gen 3:17 And unto Adam He said,"Because thou hast *hearkened unto the voice of thy wife*,and hast eaten of the tree,of which I commanded thee saying ,thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground...) Well it sure sounded like Eve somehow persuaded Adam. I mean he listened to her and did eat.But anyway I don't want to speculate...

1 Timothy 2 …13 For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression. 15 Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.…

 

[-57]

I've heard all kinds of stories about Adam and Eve and why he ate the fruit e.t.c.Gen 3:17 And unto Adam He said,"Because thou hast *hearkened unto the voice of thy wife*,and hast eaten of the tree,of which I commanded thee saying ,thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground...) Well it sure sounded like Eve somehow persuaded Adam. I mean he listened to her and did eat.But anyway I don't want to speculate...

Thanks for pointing that out. Gen 3 clears that up a bit. With that bit of information I can understand your position.

17And to Adam he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife

 

[Victory-N-Christ]

In biblical times women were not equal to men. Just as in many eastern countries today. Here in the modern west we view men and women as equal, thanks to the feminist movement that started in the late 19th and early 20th centuries...I actually think the Bible shows gender equality...but it also shows there are different roles that men and women play.

This is one thing I think the feminist movement did that was good...however, some have taken this to the extreme to say a husband has no authority over his wife, they say they're equals and in many aspects this is true...but there are those that take it even further and while screaming equality, they have actually put the woman in authority over the man.

Men and women are equal in the sight of God, they should manage their household together, in an equal partnership...but there are differences in regards to what they do...and, it should be understood that the final decision for household matters rests on the man...but a good husband will always consult his wife and take her thoughts into account.

Yes. The key word is "good" husband.Reminds me of the story of Nabal,Abigail and David. Nabal certainly wasn't a good husband.But I agree with you. Someone has to have the final say in the household.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You deny yourself
And live for her
And she lives for you

I remember once I was up at the church at social time and I asked my wife to get me a drink. A women at the church asked me why I did not get it myself. Why should my wife have to wait on me like that. I answered her and said that I do a lot for my wife and she appreciates what I do for her so she is happy to do things for me when she is able to do something. The women did not say anything after that.

 

[Galatea]

The wife is to submit to the husband to the degree that he is in submission to Christ. So that her obligation is to Christ not the husband. It is his job to help her to be everything God wants to her to be. Just as Jesus is doing a work in the Church His Bride so that she is pure without spot, blemish or wrinkle and this means the flesh is to be pure. God's love is a sacrificial love. Jesus gave Himself and sacrificed Himself for the Bride the Church. In this that husband is to sacrifice himself for his wife and family, to provide for their needs and to keep them save and protected. No where does the Bible suggest that she is to submit to the desires of his flesh. Just the opposite we are to overcome the flesh and live in the Spirit.

Thank you for this post. I believe many people's minds in this thread are fixated on the flesh rather than on the spirit.

 

[Big Drew]

I've made this testimony before.

About thirty years ago, my marriage was against the rocks. My wife and I were not fussing and cussing, but we had drifted apart, the love was not there, and we both knew it.

One evening, I was up in our bedroom praying ernestly, "Lord, tell me what to do to save my marriage."

The Holy Spirit came to me clearly with Ephesians 5:25: "Love your wife as I love the church and gave Myself up for her."

I knew what He meant--He meant doing all that mushy stuff my wife had pleaded for, things I'd resisted doing.

So I argued with the Lord: "I work hard, I bring the money home, I pay the bills, I'm not running around, I do what I'm supposed to do!"

The Lord responded, "You have not given yourself up for your wife."

I still resisted: "What if I do that and she doesn't respond?"

The Lord said: "What she does is my business. Will you obey me? Yes or no?"

So I gave in. I got off my knees and headed downstairs. I intended to tell my wife that I was going to love her as she wanted to be loved, and I'd do it whether she responded or not.

My wife met me on the stairs. She told me that she had been in the kitchen praying to the Lord for a way to save her marriage. She said the Lord had told her, "Submit to your husband."

She had argued, then had said, "What if I submit to him, but he still doesn't love me?"

She said the Holy Spirit had responded, "What he does is my business. Will you obey me?"

So she was coming upstairs to tell me that she would submit to me, even if I didn't love her in return.

We sat on the stairs and cried together, and praised the Lord, for a good long while.

That was thirty years ago. We just came back an hour ago from a trip to Ikea picking up some items for the house.

There are a whole lot of Christian husbands paying 'way too close attention to Ephesians 5:22--which actually has nothing to do with them. Ephesians 5:22 is totally a matter between wives and the Lord. It's a command from the Lord to Christian wives, and Christian wives are accountable to the Lord for obedience to His commands. It's not our command, it's the Lord's command; husbands have nothing to do with it.

Christian husbands don't pay much attention to Ephesians 5:25. In particular, it's rare that a husband actually gives his self up for his wife. His own identity, his own being, his own independence, his own proclivities, his own wants and desires, his self. Most husbands marry and continue to cling to self. They judge their wive's disobedience and fail to look at their own.

I believe this was a big factor in the break down of my first marriage. My wife and I had drifted away from God and in doing so we both lost sight of our roles of husband and wife. I recognized this, but for us, it was too late...she was unwilling to return, literally or metaphorically...I don't blame her for the divorce though...it all started because we forgot our first love...the end I could say was on her...but there's no sense in pointing fingers.

It was a hard lesson to learn, but I think it has helped me to be a better husband to my current wife. At least I hope so...

 

[joshua 1 9]

Yes. The key word is "good" husband.Reminds me of the story of Nabal,Abigail and David. Nabal certainly wasn't a good husband.But I agree with you. Someone has to have the final say in the household.

Abigail was still a good wife even if he was not a good husband. We are the ones that benefit when we do what we are required to do. Just like when we forgive people. They do not benefit we are the ones that receive the benefit for our forgiveness of others.

 

[Solomons Porch]

I remember once I was up at the church at social time and I asked my wife to get me a drink. A women at the church asked me why I did not get it myself. Why should my wife have to wait on me like that. I answered her and said that I do a lot for my wife and she appreciates what I do for her so she is happy to do things for me when she is able to do something. The women did not say anything after that.

That is so right, when we each give to one another as we should, nobody minds doing for the other, because we appreciate what both bring to the table, which makes a family, a home and a Godly marriage, equal to each other, because we care for each others needs.

 

[dqhall]

I met a woman who married an older man who was a painter. He was frequently out of work. He physically threatened her, punching a hole with his fist in the drywall near her head. She was working two jobs to support them. One thanksgiving her girl friend whom she had known since high school had to take up a collection for them to be able to afford a decent meal. Another time her husband took their money and flew to visit his father. She refused to submit to him any more. She changed the lock on their house and filed for divorce. She got friendly with an engineer she met while taking her children to a roller skating rink where he was spending time with his children. She followed him and they married nine months after they met. He was more intelligent than she and she submitted to him and remained married until he passed away.

 

[Victory-N-Christ]

The wife is to submit to the husband to the degree that he is in submission to Christ. So that her obligation is to Christ not the husband. It is his job to help her to be everything God wants to her to be. Just as Jesus is doing a work in the Church His Bride so that she is pure without spot, blemish or wrinkle and this means the flesh is to be pure. God's love is a sacrificial love. Jesus gave Himself and sacrificed Himself for the Bride the Church. In this that husband is to sacrifice himself for his wife and family, to provide for their needs and to keep them save and protected. No where does the Bible suggest that she is to submit to the desires of his flesh. Just the opposite we are to overcome the flesh and live in the Spirit.

Hi there. Then please enlighten me about 1 Corinthians 7:2-5? Thanks.