With all your heart?

[Swag365]

The question isn’t whether it’s possible or not, but rather whether it’s possible or not here on earth. I fully expect to obey this command in Heaven.

Why not start today?

 

[Arc F1]

Can we, in our fallen-but-redeemed state here on Earth, love God with all of our heart? Or does our flesh prevent us from doing so?

I want to say yes and that's how I voted. Unfortunately the way I see it if you truly loved God with all your heart you would never sin. How could you sin or even slip up at all if you loved him with all your heart?

When you truly love God you will submit and obey without question. If it is written you will not hesitate to serve him. The flesh makes this impossible.

 

[Swag365]

Okay, but is that loving Him with all of our heart?

What about the martyrs? Is not offering up one's very life for the love of God an act of loving him with all of one's heart?

 

[fhansen]

So you're making loving God with all your heart about not sinning.

They're two separate matters.

For example, David was said to be a man after God's own heart, and he sinned so.

No, not what I said. Obedience and not sinning are automatic byproducts of love. David might have loved God but not yet fully. I’ve done the same in my life. Full on love of God and neighbor excludes sin totally. I’m sure Uriah would’ve appreciated that truth.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Concerning what Hammster said: ↑
"It’s seems self-evident that if one sins, they aren’t loving God with all of their heart at that particular moment."

Absolutely, with particular emphasis on "at that particular moment".

Is it your assertion that man sins every second of ever day? If not, then you leave open the possibility that he loves God with all of his heart at certain "other particular moments" at which he does not sin.

What in English is generally translated in the present tense, is in the Greek, continuous action. What is usually translated in the past tense, is the Greek Aorist --roughly, "point-in-time". While your syllogism works in English, it doesn't work so well in Greek, because when the Bible talks about not sinning, it is (usually, at least,) talking continuous action.

So Hammster's phrase, "...at that particular moment." is a description of the sin (while sinning) coloring the whole of the behavior (and so, the love toward God) of the believer. It is grace that lifts us out of this, and gives us the ability and will to "be putting to death" (not the aorist "put to death") the "old man". He has shown that the fitful application of sentiment or desire or even obedience of the redeemed soul toward God does not qualify him for "loving God with the whole heart".

 

[fhansen]

You aren't answering the question; or are you saying, no it is not possible? Or just, it should be possible but it will never happen in this life? Or what?

Where do these verses leave us?

John 14: "15 If you love me, you will keep my commandments"

1 John 1: "8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us"

They mean what they say! We sin, and struggle with it all our lives. But the more we love the more just, righteous, holy, sanctified we are, and the less we sin.

 

[Mark Quayle]

They mean what they say! We sin, and struggle with it all our lives. But the more we love, then the more just, righteous, holy, sanctified we are, and the less we sin.

Your first sentence there deals with the subject of the OP. The second does not.

So, it appears you are agreeing we cannot completely obey, hence, we may conclude, we cannot love him with the whole heart. We are super-conquering, but have not yet completely stamped out, sin.

 

[Hammster]

Absolutely, with particular emphasis on "at that particular moment".

Is it your assertion that man sins every second of ever day? If not, then you leave open the possibility that he loves God with all of his heart at certain "other particular moments" at which he does not sin.

My assertion is that because we sin, we can’t say that we love Him with all of our heart, and the evidence is that we sin.

 

[Swag365]

Concerning what Hammster said: ↑
"It’s seems self-evident that if one sins, they aren’t loving God with all of their heart at that particular moment."



What in English is generally translated in the present tense, is in the Greek, continuous action. What is usually translated in the past tense, is the Greek Aorist --roughly, "point-in-time". While your syllogism works in English, it doesn't work so well in Greek, because when the Bible talks about not sinning, it is (usually, at least,) talking continuous action.

So Hammster's phrase, "...at that particular moment." is a description of the sin (while sinning) coloring the whole of the behavior (and so, the love toward God) of the believer. It is grace that lifts us out of this, and gives us the ability and will to "be putting to death" (not the aorist "put to death") the "old man". He has shown that the fitful application of sentiment or desire or even obedience of the redeemed soul toward God does not qualify him for "loving God with the whole heart".

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you are referring to sin in the sense of a "negative disposition" towards God or following his commands, rather than sin in the sense of act of a specific action (murder, stealing, adultery, etc.)

I think if you want to define sin that way for the purpose of the discussion, that is fine, but the context of the bible verse you quoted (leaving the Greek aside) appears speak to specific sinful acts that should be confessed and forgiven, rather than a generalized "negative disposition" towards God or his commands. Your view seems plausible but I do not view the text that way.

 

[com7fy8]

Are you perfectly obedient?

Or does our flesh prevent us from doing so?

In any case, I think obedience includes >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

And no I am not constantly submitting to how our Father rules us in His peace. But we can trust God to correct us and keep us so we do obey how He rules each of us in His peace, and discover how this has us keeping His commandments the way He means them.

 

[Hammster]

Why not start today?

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

 

[Swag365]

My assertion is that because we sin, we can’t say that we love Him with all of our heart

That's cool. I don't think it concludes logically. Just because you choose to sin today, does not mean that you are destined to sin tomorrow. The opposite is also true.

 

[Hammster]

What about the martyrs? Is not offering up one's very life for the love of God an act of loving him with all of one's heart?

Were they without sin?

 

[Swag365]

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

Sounds like an excuse. Are you going to try, through prayer and the grace of God?

 

[Swag365]

Were they without sin?

Perhaps, if they confessed them, repented, and asked for forgiveness with an earnest heart. That does happen.

 

[Hammster]

That's cool. I don't think it concludes logically. Just because you choose to sin today, does not mean that you are destined to sin tomorrow. The opposite is also true.

Anything not done in faith and to glorify God is sin. I strive for that, but I fail daily.

 

[Hammster]

Sounds like an excuse. Are you going to try, through prayer and the grace of God?

Did you read the part about the spirit being willing? Praise God that you are without sin, but I’m not there yet.

 

[Hammster]

Perhaps, if they confessed them, repented, and asked for forgiveness with an earnest heart. That does happen.

So they sinned.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Can we, in our fallen-but-redeemed state here on Earth, love God with all of our heart? Or does our flesh prevent us from doing so?

In order to define the "heart" , we need to understand the meaning and use in Jewish literature, how it is used and how it relates to the New Covenant.
The heart is the seat of volition. It is the conscience resolve experienced by few under the Old Covenant and all under the New Covenant through regeneration. To "love with all your heart and soul" denotes that very conscience resolve. This is the gift given to the true beliver through the power of His Holy Spirit. The restoration and connection to our Creator, the Father. To lack this understanding puts into question the core of the Gospel. Blessings.

 

[mlepfitjw]

Does this sin, include even sin that does not lead to death?

"If you see a fellow believer sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it."

Also another question if Jesus Christ has paid for our sins, including the worlds, are not we forgiven because we have seen our sins, and have turned towards God, because of our desire to no longer walk in darkness but rather in the light?

Are we still able to put God first, and love others?