Witches, wizards and the occult

Cearbhall · Mar 31, 2016

Goodbook said:
well, I wouldnt actively buy into anything that was fantasy...for children, if I was a parent. Its a waste of money and I can think of better things to do with them.

What books would you buy for them?

Goodbook · Mar 31, 2016

Uh..hp is about wichcraft and sorcery. The whole series is about it.
HP goes to a witchcraft and wizardry school where he trains to be a wizard. The non magical people dont know about it. In real life, this is what people do, they get trained in it. Er der. To say its compeltely not about that is just stupid.

Goodbook · Mar 31, 2016

If you had parents that taught you about God, good for you. I didnt.

I dont know, I think that is a good thing, not a bad thing. If you want to call evil good and good evil, well, somethings wrong here.

Goodbook · Mar 31, 2016

My parents didnt buy me any books lol. You had good parents. My parents never read to me at all.
I had to sneak a bible in, if I read it I would get in trouble.

Even now, its disapporved of because my mother doesnt want to know the truth.

I cant believe people are defending a silly fantasy series and saying oh itsnnot about witchcraft and sorcery when its even in the title. Must be lack of reading comprehension? Why the fascination? Maybe they get something out of it that they lack because they DONT read the bible? I dont know.

I dont get it. But I do know that, the effect of it is they would rather side with it than the truth. Which is very sad. We all have freedom to read and choice to make, but we dont have to get sucked in to someone elses make believe world and their beliefs. Which is pretty obvious many have this belief that well, since its fantasy it can be anything. Anything goes. Well porn is fantasy. But people are damaged by it. Real people are involved in it. Same with witchcraft. So why for Gods sake, encourage it?

Cearbhall · Mar 31, 2016

Goodbook said:
My parents didnt buy me any books lol. You had good parents. My parents never read to me at all.

What books would you buy for your children, though? It sounds like you don't like the idea of fiction. I'm curious, what would you have them read and watch?

Goodbook · Mar 31, 2016

Ok for those that dont know, God doesnt like sorcery or witchcraft. He calls it rebellion. In the bible, when the israelites turned to other gods who operate by sorcery, it is said they 'did evil in the sight of the Lord'.
In the book of revelation, the ones who dont wnter the kingdom are those who do not repent of their sorcery. There are other things too, but sorcery is one of them.

The harlot of babylon seduced people by sorcery, so did Jezebel. Do you not understand what the bible says? If someone who you dont even know, comes along, and you somehow instantly fall in love with them, but dont even know the, what is that? In witchcraft there are spells that make people fall in love with you.

Its not just curses and changing people into frogs or whatevr childish thing fairy tales tell you.
Although curses are actually real.

Witchcraft seeks to manipulate the order of Gods creation. Its tapping into a realm from below, i.e, demons for your own ends. In HP! All the characters did this. In the movie, I saw an attempt to mitigate this by one character saying the greatest power is love. But if you read further in the series you see that HP does not actually show much love for other people. None of the characters really do. They are all about revenge.

CCHIPSS · Mar 31, 2016

Goodbook said:
well, I wouldnt actively buy into anything that was fantasy...for children, if I was a parent. Its a waste of money and I can think of better things to do with them. Like I wouldn't forbid it but I would just tell them the truth. Its like not perpetuating the santa claus myth..or not buying into halloween. I mean those things aren't necessary to enjoy childhood.
Children need love and care more than fantasy escapism. And its not good to deliberately expose children to occult writings. I can understand why christian parents won't buy into things like HP, now that I'm a christian I just get that, and I don't condemn them for it. Its a choice and a valid one.
Its like you wouldn't expose your children to porn, the same thing, I wouldn't expose them to dark things and questionable spiritual practices that are disguised as fantasy. I would think twice before I did that.

Anyway, think I said enough, I didn't realise people were so adamant that there was absolutely nothing wrong with witchcraft and sorcery and that they thought it was of God.

I don't think any Christians would deny the existence of witches and wizards. And no Christian would say practicing witchcraft is ok. They existed in the past and does exist today. In fact in some nations it was standard practice to use witchcraft. There are plenty of voodoo priests around the world. However it is a far argument to say that a kid who reads Harry Potter or play video games will start actually practicing the occult in real life.

I don't think we need to worry about witches and wizards. Even in the worst case scenario where they are actually powerful and dangerous (I doubt it), they are still no more dangerous than someone with a AK-47 or a terrorist bomber. And honestly none of them can harm us unless God wills it to happen for His greater purpose. Satan couldn't touch Job unless God lets him.

Witches and wizards need Jesus and need to repent from their ways. They are no worst sinners than anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus. Sinners who don't believe in Jesus will of course sin. They don't know any better. In fact it was a great evil to burn witches and wizards, even if they were real witches and wizards. It was the love of God that turns hearts around, not violence and fear.

Elliewaves · Mar 31, 2016

Are there posts saying that witches don't exist? Because I'm confused again about what the op is talking about. I've yet to see any concrete, real examples of people being pro occult on the singles forum.

Hieronymus · Mar 31, 2016

Goodbook said:
People just seem intersted in magic and and witches and wizards and dont seem to realise what God says about it. Not everything is godly.

I baffles me how this discernment is so rare...

Cearbhall · Mar 31, 2016

Goodbook said:
Ok for those that dont know, God doesnt like sorcery or witchcraft.

So just to clarify, if someone like myself does not believe that witchcraft exists, then you don't believe there's a danger in me reading Harry Potter?

SnowyMacie · Mar 31, 2016

1) Being interesting in fantasy stories is not the same thing as being interesting in magic.
2) None of us are denying the existance of the occult or real witchcraft, nor are saying those are good things.
3) There is a massive difference between the magic in HP, LOTR, Narnia and real life occultism. The magic often in fiction is very mechanical and skilled-based. Also quite often, it's not something everyone has, you can't choose to be a wizard in the HP universe or Middle Earth (fairly sure). Whereas in real-life occultism, it's very ritualistic and making contact with the spirit realm. Here's a visual illustration...

Mechanical,skilled-based, almost scientific Harry Potter magic ("It's leviOsa, not leviosA")

Mystical, ritualistic, spiritual BTVS magic...(This is also fiction, but much closer to real occult practice...)

Cearbhall · Mar 31, 2016

TX_Matt said:
2) None of us are denying the existance of the occult or real witchcraft

Well, I am, but I haven't gotten a response to my questions about whether the rules are different for non-Christians.

SnowyMacie · Mar 31, 2016

Cearbhall said:
Well, I am, but I haven't gotten a response to my questions about whether the rules are different for non-Christians.

I was speaking more on the fact that people practice stuff like that.

Cearbhall · Mar 31, 2016

TX_Matt said:
I was speaking more on the fact that people practice stuff like that.

Ah. Yes, I acknowledge that, but some in this thread have expressed that they believe there's real (dark) spiritual power behind these actions, and observable outcomes.

keith99 · Mar 31, 2016

Darth Bagel said:
People enjoy the fantasy genre because it often draws discernible parallels to the spiritual realities of the world we live in. I had an aversion to Harry Potter for years because a "pastor" tried to illustrate a difference between HP and LOTR, citing that the former sought power while the latter's characters knew they weren't meant to wield that kind of power and tried to rid themselves of it.
.....

Clearly an example of one more pastor who not only never read either work but never even read a decent summary.

Gandalf and Galadriel are the only characters who come to mind who made that decision freely and they both had one of the 3 rings so they did wield 'that kind of power'. Faramir might well have made the same decision, but he never had the chance as he was fortunate enough to bind himself by his oath before realizing just what was within his grasp, lacking that he may well have fallen to the same fate as his brother.

The vast majority of characters would gladly have used the one ring and some would have controlled it for a while, for a few a while might have been longer than any of us will live.

Swan7 · Mar 31, 2016

Goodbook said:
If you had parents that taught you about God, good for you. I didnt.

I dont know, I think that is a good thing, not a bad thing. If you want to call evil good and good evil, well, somethings wrong here.

Who are you referring to ?

Rhamiel · Mar 31, 2016

Cearbhall said:
Ah. Yes, I acknowledge that, but some in this thread have expressed that they believe there's real (dark) spiritual power behind these actions, and observable outcomes.

well there have been plenty of people who have reported they have used demons or seen people who claimed demonic influence do things that are super natural

keith99 · Mar 31, 2016

Cearbhall said:
Ah. Yes, I acknowledge that, but some in this thread have expressed that they believe there's real (dark) spiritual power behind these actions, and observable outcomes.

The devil made me buy that dress!

CCHIPSS · Mar 31, 2016

Cearbhall said:
Ah. Yes, I acknowledge that, but some in this thread have expressed that they believe there's real (dark) spiritual power behind these actions, and observable outcomes.

That's because the bible said there are real dark powers. Men processed by demons (that's where witchcraft get their power) can torn metal shackles and chains apart. (Mark 5:2-4) They also can summon up spirits (as in 1 Samuel 28:15) and monsters (Exodus 7:10-12).

Of course these are evil practices and Christians should have nothing to do with them. The Holy Spirit inside a Christian is infinitely greater than the demons of this world.

As for myself when I was younger I had seen some pretty weird stuff. For example I had seen a shadowy figure walking down the street for over a minute. It has no colour, just black. It has the shape of a humanoid and way too big to be a dog or a cat. Due to how long I witnessed it there is no way it could have been my imagination. But God is with me now and I do not need to be afraid.

Cearbhall · Mar 31, 2016

CCHIPSS said:
That's because the bible said there are real dark powers. Men processed by demons (that's where witchcraft get their power) can torn metal shackles and chains apart. (Mark 5:2-4) They also can summon up spirits (as in 1 Samuel 28:15) and monsters (Exodus 7:10-12).

I mean, that's fine, I guess I just wasn't understanding that some people here believe in humans being able to do magic outside of God's miracles.

In that case, I could understand how exposing kids to stories about witchcraft might lead to problems. But I wouldn't blame it on the stories. I would blame it on the person who's teaching the kid that magic is a real thing that people need to worry about. If the kid is taught fact from fiction, there shouldn't be an issue.

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