Wine vs. Grape Juice

[Lion King]

You're talking a small swig of wine that is also Jesus' body. If Jesus were standing in front of you right now, would you dare suggest to him that his own body would cause you to sin?

I'm allergic to wine. I don't drink any wine. Period.

Jesus never said that only wine should be used for the LORD's supper, so I don't see how He would be offended at me using grape juice which is of the FRUIT OF THE VINE.

the word ampelos means vine, and in every instance listed in the bible, it refers to a grapevine. So Jesus used wine.

I'm not a wine only person, but I do believe that wine SHOULD be used, because it's what Jesus used.

Are you aware that grape juice also comes from the vine?

The Nazarenes were prohibited from eating or drinking anything that came from the fruit of the vine. This included wine, vinegar made from wine, grape juice, grapes, raisins etc.

Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When either a man or woman consecrates an offering to take the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the Lord, 3 he shall separate himself from wine and similar drink; he shall drink neither vinegar made from wine nor vinegar made from similar drink; neither shall he drink any grape juice, nor eat fresh grapes or raisins. 4 All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, from seed to skin. Numbers 6:1-4

 

[Lion King]

I guess the fact that Jesus used it isn't good enough for you?

Jesus drank of the fruit of the vine. I also happen to do the same each time I take a big swig of that good ol' grape juice.

 

[RDKirk]

Do you have any Scriptural evidence that states that only wine is to be used at the LORD's supper?

Same scripture that states baptism must be by immersion.

And you can take that any way you want, as long as you take it consistently.

 

[RDKirk]

At my church we use wine in Communion. When the whole swine flu breakout drama happened, I continued to take communion. As The EO Church administers Communion through the chalice and the spoon, people got afraid of being sick. I personally feel that it being the Body and Blood of Christ, all diseases and faults will not stand against it.

As for using grape juice, I don't see why it's necessary to replace wine with grape juice. If anything, it's just a small "portion" and it won't affect you in any way.

If communion is going to be taken from one cup...wine for sure.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

they must abstain from wine and other fermented drink and must not drink vinegar made from wine or other fermented drink. They must not drink grape juice or eat grapes or raisins. Numbers 6:3

What are the Jew's view on that?

Wine and Grape Products - Kosher


Handbook › Special Kashrut Considerations‎

.............We are not allowed to drink any wine or grape juice, or any drink containing wine or grape juice, which has been touched by a non-Jew after the seal of the bottle ... All such beverages require kosher supervision, as does herring in wine sauce.

The production and handling of kosher wine must be done exclusively by Jews. Wine, grape juice, and all products containing wine or grape juice must remain solely in Jewish hands during the manufacturing process and also after the seal of the bottle has been opened.

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[MKJ]

Grape juice wasn't invented yet? How did the Israelites make wine then?

No. When you press the grapes, they actually already have alcohol content, unless you press them before they are ripe. Even then they start fermenting immediately and there is alcohol present very soon, as in within a day. And that makes for bad wine, so why would you do it?

 

[Lion King]

No. When you press the grapes, they actually already have alcohol content, unless you press them before they are ripe. Even then they start fermenting immediately and there is alcohol present very soon, as in within a day. And that makes for bad wine, so why would you do it?

So the chief cupbearer told Joseph his dream. He said to him, “In my dream I saw a vine in front of me, 10 and on the vine were three branches. As soon as it budded, it blossomed, and its clusters ripened into grapes. 11 Pharaoh’s cup was in my hand, and I took the grapes, squeezed them into Pharaoh’s cup and put the cup in his hand.” Genesis 40:9-11

Is that not how grape juice is made?

 

[RDKirk]

So the chief cupbearer told Joseph his dream. He said to him, “In my dream I saw a vine in front of me, 10 and on the vine were three branches. As soon as it budded, it blossomed, and its clusters ripened into grapes. 11 Pharaoh’s cup was in my hand, and I took the grapes, squeezed them into Pharaoh’s cup and put the cup in his hand.” Genesis 40:9-11

Is that not how grape juice is made?

Remember that grapes are a seasonal crop--harvested in the fall in Israel. So, yeah, they could have grape juice for a very short time, if they wanted to.

But passover is in the spring, months after the grape harvest. The only way they were going to have liquid "from the fruit of the vine" for passover was by fermentation.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Remember that grapes are a seasonal crop--harvested in the fall in Israel. So, yeah, they could have grape juice for a very short time, if they wanted to.

But passover is in the spring, months after the grape harvest. The only way they were going to have liquid "from the fruit of the vine" for passover was by fermentation.

Harvesting is tuff.......

http://www.christianforums.com/t7283568/#post48535613
The Harvest of Matt 13/Reve 14

Matt 13:30
"Suffer ye! to be together-growing the HARVEST/qerismou <2326>, and in the time of the HARVEST/qerismou <2326> I shall be declaring to the Harvesters/qerismou <2326>'together-collect the darnel/zizania <2215 and bind ye them! into bundles toward the to burn them. The yet grain together bring into the place of Me'

Reve 14:15
and another messenger came out out of the Sanctuary crying out in a voice, great, to the one sitting on the cloud: "Send! the sickle of thee and reap! that came the hour to HARVEST/qerison <2325> (5657),
that is dried the HARVEST/qerismoV <2326> of the land.

John Mellencamp - Rain On The Scarecrow - YouTube


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[Standing Up]

Think I'll stick with the symbolism:

unleavened bread (dead body)
wine (alive spirit)

 

[Athanasias]

Think I'll stick with the symbolism:

unleavened bread (dead body)
wine (alive spirit)

Actually wine(Blood)

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I'm allergic to wine. I don't drink any wine. Period.

Then I guess you could just say that you have to refrain from partaking of the Lord's supper. Obviously you don't trust that the Lord's Supper will not harm you. So it's good if you refrain, since partaking of the supper in an unworthy manner is to your detriment.

In all the outbreaks of swine flu that ravaged our town, no one got it from drinking out of the common cup for the Lord's supper. I wonder why that is.

Jesus never said that only wine should be used for the LORD's supper, so I don't see how He would be offended at me using grape juice which is of the FRUIT OF THE VINE.

He said "take this cup, which is the new covenant of my blood....do this as oft as you do in remembrance of me". The cup he had would've had wine in it, NOT grape juice.

For me, that's enough to know that it should be wine that is used in the Lord's Supper.

Note also that I said I am not a wine only person. I realize there may be instances where it cannot be used. But those instances should be the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

Are you aware that grape juice also comes from the vine?

Talk to Mr. Welch about that.

The Nazarenes were prohibited from eating or drinking anything that came from the fruit of the vine. This included wine, vinegar made from wine, grape juice, grapes, raisins etc.

Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When either a man or woman consecrates an offering to take the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the Lord, 3 he shall separate himself from wine and similar drink; he shall drink neither vinegar made from wine nor vinegar made from similar drink; neither shall he drink any grape juice, nor eat fresh grapes or raisins. 4 All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, from seed to skin. Numbers 6:1-4

There was a specific purpose for this. Do you know what it was? I'll give you a hint: it's in verse 2. The food/dietary laws in the OT were meant to remind the children of Israel of their standing with God. Note that Jesus talked about those laws and their application in reference to his purpose on earth.

And, furthermore, your translation is probably a "newer" translation. There really honestly wasn't any such thing as "grape juice" back in those days.

 

[Athanasias]

Fruit of the vine does not mean wine or grape juice. Everyone knows it means water......oh wait this is not a mormon thread ooopps

 

[New Legacy]

So the chief cupbearer told Joseph his dream. He said to him, “In my dream I saw a vine in front of me, 10 and on the vine were three branches. As soon as it budded, it blossomed, and its clusters ripened into grapes. 11 Pharaoh’s cup was in my hand, and I took the grapes, squeezed them into Pharaoh’s cup and put the cup in his hand.” Genesis 40:9-11

Is that not how grape juice is made?

Grape juice was invented by Pasteur.

 

[New Legacy]

Remember that grapes are a seasonal crop--harvested in the fall in Israel. So, yeah, they could have grape juice for a very short time, if they wanted to.

But passover is in the spring, months after the grape harvest. The only way they were going to have liquid "from the fruit of the vine" for passover was by fermentation.

By short, you are talking about hours.

For our argument - I'll point out that grapes are covered in yeast, the minute it is crushed, the begin to go to work. By the end of the day, the wine would be bubbling away with fermentation.

 

[New Legacy]

Jesus drank of the fruit of the vine. I also happen to do the same each time I take a big swig of that good ol' grape juice.

He also served wine. At the wedding, the guests were impressed that the last of the wine was of high quality. This is referring to the fact that wine varies in flavor (before modern techniques) and quality depending on what yeast and bacteria got in there. Wine making was random in terms of what got into the wine and changed its flavors. Thus, it was customary to serve the best first and lesser quality wines later.

Grape juice tastes like grape juice - until you add yeast, which can make the wine vary greatly in flavor. Also, grape juice didn't really exist back then but for a few hours. Serving grape juice at wine would be impossible. By the time you squeeze it, put it into containers and bring it into the city, it's fermented.

 

[OGM]

Fruit of the vine does not mean wine or grape juice. Everyone knows it means water......oh wait this is not a mormon thread ooopps

Ha!!! I wonder how the LDS resolve Jesus turning the water in to wine? And the drinking of wine in the Bible.

 

[RDKirk]

By short, you are talking about hours.

For our argument - I'll point out that grapes are covered in yeast, the minute it is crushed, the begin to go to work. By the end of the day, the wine would be bubbling away with fermentation.

Yes. Note in the verse quoted, the grapes are squeezed directly into the drinking goblet.

 

[New Legacy]

Do you have any Scriptural evidence that states that only wine is to be used at the LORD's supper?

Because grape juice didn't exist. It is amazing that with all our technology, we totally forget how people lived back then.

 

[New Legacy]

Again, what about all the Christians TODAY that have no access to wine?

Catholicism exists throughout the world and wine is still required.

Anyone with access to grape juice has access to wine.