Wine vs. Grape Juice

[katherine2001]

God be with you my friend.

In case some of you haven't read MoreCoffee's thread, RevRandy passed away on Sunday. I, for one, will really miss him. I loved his wisdom, gentleness, and sense of humor. My thoughts and prayers are with Fr. George (RevRandy), his wife, and daughter (and grandchildren if he had any). +Memory Eternal

 

[PreachersWife2004]

In case some of you haven't read MoreCoffee's thread, RevRandy passed away on Sunday. I, for one, will really miss him. I loved his wisdom, gentleness, and sense of humor. My thoughts and prayers are with Fr. George (RevRandy), his wife, and daughter (and grandchildren if he had any). +Memory Eternal

Oh that is so sad...I didn't know...Welcome Home, Randy...

 

[Kristos]

In case some of you haven't read MoreCoffee's thread, RevRandy passed away on Sunday. I, for one, will really miss him. I loved his wisdom, gentleness, and sense of humor. My thoughts and prayers are with Fr. George (RevRandy), his wife, and daughter (and grandchildren if he had any). +Memory Eternal

Memory Eternal!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In case some of you haven't read MoreCoffee's thread, RevRandy passed away on Sunday. I, for one, will really miss him. I loved his wisdom, gentleness, and sense of humor. My thoughts and prayers are with Fr. George (RevRandy), his wife, and daughter (and grandchildren if he had any). +Memory Eternal

That is very sad news indeed!
He had such a great passion and love for our LORD and prayers go out to his family and love ones to comfort them during this time of his passing away.


.

 

[abysmul]

In case some of you haven't read MoreCoffee's thread, RevRandy passed away on Sunday. I, for one, will really miss him. I loved his wisdom, gentleness, and sense of humor. My thoughts and prayers are with Fr. George (RevRandy), his wife, and daughter (and grandchildren if he had any). +Memory Eternal

I had not read, thanks for posting that.

May God comfort his family and loved ones.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

In case some of you haven't read MoreCoffee's thread, RevRandy passed away on Sunday. I, for one, will really miss him. I loved his wisdom, gentleness, and sense of humor. My thoughts and prayers are with Fr. George (RevRandy), his wife, and daughter (and grandchildren if he had any). +Memory Eternal

I just found out in an other forum. He was a good friend, and a great inspiration to many of us. May his memory be eternal.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This may be a dumb question, but in bread, there is leavened and unleavened.

Is there the same type of thing in wine? (or in grape juice?)
Both are from the vine, is one fermented and one not?

Good question.
If a bottle says wine on it, I will drink it


.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Good question.
If a bottle says wine on it, I will drink it


.

Take care in that as Richard's Wild Irish Rose says wine on the label and it doesn't qualify as such in my thinking.

 

[RDKirk]

Now if you want to start using vodka and cheetos, well that's kind of crossing the line a bit over to the realm of silly.

-CryptoLutheran

Or beer and pizza. Wait, that's Football Sunday communion.

 

[RDKirk]

Thanks y'all.

I do think historically & traditionally, wine is the deal - but I just don't know if using grape juice is a church "deal breaker" for me. I have only ever had grape juice for communion, which works out for someone who really doesn't like wine at all, lol. I certainly don't think alcohol is sinful or anything like that, just trying to think about anything & everything on my church seeking journey.

Scripture lists all the "deal breakers" specifically and multiple times. I go by the "two or three witnesses" rule on such things.

 

[RDKirk]

BUT you told me that your only intention was to find out what others believe ("I'm interested in how others view and understand the Lord's supper. I find it not only interesting but educational...."). That wasn't exactly the case.

Reminds me of a rule I was taught in Intelligence school about interrogations: He's from the other side, so you already know you don't agree with him. But your intention is to gain information, not to win an argument.

 

[RDKirk]

Some people were arguing that nobody drank grape juice in the ancient times because it wasn't invented yet (or whatever that means), so the term "fruit of the vine" can only mean wine and nothing else.

Therefore, only wine is to be used at the LORD's Supper.

I would argue that no Jews drank grape juice at Passover because unfermented grape juice would not last more than a few days after the grapes had been harvested the previous late summer. The only edible "fruit of the vine" that would persist into the Passover season would be dried grapes (raisins) and wine.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Reminds me of a rule I was taught in Intelligence school about interrogations: He's from the other side, so you already know you don't agree with him. But your intention is to gain information, not to win an argument.

Now there is a school I could benefit from. I come up short in that department.

 

[Lion King]

I would argue that no Jews drank grape juice at Passover because unfermented grape juice would not last more than a few days after the grapes had been harvested the previous late summer. The only edible "fruit of the vine" that would persist into the Passover season would be dried grapes (raisins) and wine.

That is true. Back then, people didn't have the technology to keep grape juice fresh for long periods. The only way they could preserve grape juice was to ferment it into wine.

However, this doesn't the fact that any liquid derived entirely from the fruit of the vine (i.e grapes) is perfectly acceptable for the LORD's supper.

 

[Elder 111]

That is true. Back then, people didn't have the technology to keep grape juice fresh for long periods. The only way they could preserve grape juice was to ferment it into wine.

However, this doesn't the fact that any liquid derived entirely from the fruit of the vine (i.e grapes) is perfectly acceptable for the LORD's supper.

There are many things the ancients did that we do not know of. Are we 100% certain that they did not preserve grape juice. How did they build the Stonehenge? How did they preserve the Mummies?

 

[FireDragon76]

I have health problems so I can't usually drink even a small amount of alcohol (it makes me ill), but the Eucharist has never bothered me. I prefer real wine, although I suppose grace juice is also acceptable- it's just not traditional. I have attended churches that used de-alcoholed wine and that would be preferred by me over grape juice.

 

[Lion King]

There are many things the ancients did that we do not know of. Are we 100% certain that they did not preserve grape juice. How did they build the Stonehenge? How did they preserve the Mummies?

The only way to preserve grape juice back then was to ferment it.

 

[RDKirk]

There are many things the ancients did that we do not know of. Are we 100% certain that they did not preserve grape juice. How did they build the Stonehenge? How did they preserve the Mummies?

Unlike ancient Britain and Egypt, there have not been any intervening conquerors or periods that have completely broken the cultural strands between ancient times and today. Winemaking in the Middle East has not suffered a technological disruption.

We also have holy scripture, which we believe gives us a reliable record. If the people in biblical times had two methods of preserving grape juice, they would have made a grammatical distinction in the bible, then, between wine and unfermented grape juice. There is no distinction anywhere in scripture, NT or OT between wine and grape juice, and all references to winemaking in scripture are specifically to the making of fermented wine. There are no references to any way to preserve unfermented grape juice.