Wine vs. Grape Juice

[Cappadocious]

But Koolaid is cheaper than wine.

There was no such thing as wine until the Catholic Church appeared. Everyone used Purple Koolaid before then. But all record of Purple Koolaid use was suppressed by Constantine, and he dumped all the Purple Koolaid his soldiers could track down into the Bosphorus.

A sample of real, true Purple Koolaid runs in the thousands. What you see in stores today is a fake, cut with dehydrated cabernet to keep the price down.

 

[MJohn7]

There was no such thing as wine until the Catholic Church appeared. Everyone used Purple Koolaid before then. But all record of Purple Koolaid use was suppressed by Constantine, and he dumped all the Purple Koolaid his soldiers could track down into the Bosphorus.

A sample of real, true Purple Koolaid runs in the thousands. What you see in stores today is a fake, cut with dehydrated cabernet to keep the price down.

I know you're joking, but Kool aid and grape juice are not the same, not even close.

 

[abysmul]

Originally Posted by abysmul

What about very poor early Christians in countries that did not produce wine (or at least not much)? Places where milks, water, or beers were only available?
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Good point. You cant easily grow grapes in cold northern climates either. Maybe vodka or corn whiskey will do? Or one could just live by faith in the lords promises, while examining himself as paul urges us, and use what we have, even if its nothing at all.

I don't disagree, or even think alcohol would have to be in the substitute.

 

[Cappadocious]

I know you're joking, but Kool aid and grape juice are not the same, not even close.

They have a few similarities, though. For example, both are made with processes that didn't exist until centuries after Christ.

 

[Cappadocious]

I don't disagree, or even think alcohol would have to be in the substitute.

Why don't you ask what the Russians have traditionally used?

 

[abysmul]

Why don't you ask what the Russians have traditionally used?

If you know, please share? That would be interesting trivia!

 

[MJohn7]

They have a few similarities, though. For example, both are made with processes that didn't exist until centuries after Christ.

I disagree, grape juice was made before and after Christ, but it couldn't be stored for any length of time. Kool aid did not exist back then..

 

[Cappadocious]

If you know, please share? That would be interesting trivia!

Russian wine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wine is not really hard to come by.

 

[Cappadocious]

I disagree, grape juice was made before and after Christ, but it couldn't be stored for any length of time. Kool aid did not exist back then..

Pasteurized Grape Juice is a quite different product than "Raw" mildly-fermented grape pressings would be.

Just like how Kroger brand 'cider' and unpasteurized pressed cider are radically different things.

 

[Lion King]

Not a very attentive host, I see.

Do you think the term "fruit of the vine" (Matthew 26:27-29, Mark 14:23-25, Luke 22:17-18) is only limited to wine?

 

[abysmul]

Do you think the term "fruit of the vine" (Matthew 26:27-29, Mark 14:23-25, Luke 22:17-18) is only limited to wine?

I mentioned watermelon wine and tomato juice earlier

 

[MJohn7]

Pasteurized Grape Juice is a quite different product than "Raw" mildly-fermented grape pressings would be.

Just like how Kroger brand 'cider' and unpasteurized pressed cider are radically different things.

Well, i wont drink any wine. There is too much whining involved in it and not enough winning. I'll just steer clear, im content.

 

[Cappadocious]

Do you think the term "fruit of the vine" (Matthew 26:27-29, Mark 14:23-25, Luke 22:17-18) is only limited to wine?

In an abstract Hellenistic sense, not necessarily. In a concrete Semitic sense, in this context, yes.

 

[RDKirk]

Originally Posted by abysmul

What about very poor early Christians in countries that did not produce wine (or at least not much)? Places where milks, water, or beers were only available?

​

I don't disagree, or even think alcohol would have to be in the substitute.

Mmm, yeah. If wine is not available, I don't see any reason why the substitute need even be alcoholic. I don't think alcohol was the point.

But a question for Catholics: What is your doctrine for situations that wine is simply not available? Isn't wine a necessity for Euchrist?

 

[abysmul]

Mmm, yeah. If wine is not available, I don't see any reason why the substitute need even be alcoholic. I don't think alcohol was the point.

But a question for Catholics: What is your doctrine for situations that wine is simply not available? Isn't wine a necessity for Euchrist?

There is no doubt, Christians alive today, that have zero access to wine; most certainly in places like North Korea and elsewhere.

 

[RDKirk]

In an abstract Hellenistic sense, not necessarily. In a concrete Semitic sense, in this context, yes.

I'm not sure it's not the other way around.

 

[Lion King]

I mentioned watermelon wine and tomato juice earlier

When the Scriptures say the word vine, they are almost always referring to the grape vine.

 

[seashale76]

Repeat of an older post of mine:
Let me put it to you this way: This wasn't even a discussion or question that occurred before the advent of the Temperance Movement in the United States starting back in the mid-1800s. Thomas Bramwell Welch invented the process to stop fermentation in 1869. That's how new this issue of yours is. Wine is fermented. Every time the scriptures mention wine it means there's alcohol in it. Can't get around that.

People around here keep playing these 'what if' scenarios. If obtaining communion wine was a real problem in the last 2000 years, we would have heard about it. My God provides. Clergy who had been imprisoned found a way to put together vestments and celebrate Divine Liturgy for the Pascha of 1945 at Dachau with the correct elements. In Iran, Christians have recently been sentenced to receiving 80 lashes for using wine during communion. If they can get it together the rest of us don't have much of an excuse.

Also- these 'what if' scenarios are putting human limitations on God. 'What if I'm allergic, gluten intolerant, etc.?' 'What if I'm an alcoholic?' Christ is in the Eucharist, folks. I take the body and blood of Christ from a communal spoon that has been dipped into a communal chalice (filled with water, wine, and bread) and given to a lot of people before me- and I've survived (and so has everyone else who receives this way). It's a faith thing. To change the elements is to put your own views and needs over what God wants.

 

[Lion King]

In an abstract Hellenistic sense, not necessarily. In a concrete Semitic sense, in this context, yes.

Go on...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Lion King

Do you think the term "fruit of the vine" (Matthew 26:27-29, Mark 14:23-25, Luke 22:17-18) is only limited to wine?
​

In an abstract Hellenistic sense, not necessarily.
In a concrete Semitic sense, in this context, yes.

Interesting word:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7374739-3/
Is the New Testament anti-semitic?

Originally Posted by liars_paradox

What I mean by that, is it anti-Jewish? I don't know if this topic has been opened up here before as I am a new member here, but if not I'll go ahead and ask it.
Can the New Testament be characterized as anti-Jewish? Keep in mind that many within the Christian community have argued that this is the case, and many Jewish people agree with this statement.

However, even with the generalized usage of the word "Jew" in some passages and as well as the altercations recorded between Jesus and the Pharisees, can we argue that this is the case?

Please let me know what your thoughts on the issue as I'm interested in hearing them.
​

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Search Wikipedia Encyclopedia:

Semitic people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speaking peoples originating in the Near East, including; Akkadians (Assyrians/Syriacs and Babylonians), Ahlamu, Amalekites, Ammonites, Amorites, Arameans, Chaldeans, Canaanites, Eblaites, Dilmunites, Hebrews (Israelites, Judeans and Samaritans), Edomites, Ethiopian Semites, Hyksos, Arabs, Nabateans, Maganites, Maltese, Mandaeans, Mhallami, Moabites, Phoenicians (including Carthaginians), Shebans, Sabians, Ubarites and Ugarites. It was proposed at first to refer to the languages related to Hebrew by Ludwig Schlözer, in Eichhorn's "Repertorium", vol. VIII (Leipzig, 1781), p. 161. Through Eichhorn the name then came into general usage (cf. his "Einleitung in das Alte Testament" (Leipzig, 1787), I, p. 45). In his "Geschichte der neuen Sprachenkunde", pt. I (Göttingen, 1807) it had already become a fixed technical term.[2]

The word "Semitic" is an adjective derived from Shem, one of the three sons of Noah in Genesis 5, Genesis 6, {{bibleverse||Genesis|1021}, or more precisely from the Greek derivative of that name, namely Σημ (Sēm); the noun form referring to a person is Semite.
The concept of "Semitic" peoples is derived from Biblical accounts of the origins of the cultures known to the ancient Hebrews. In an effort to categorise the peoples known to them, those closest to them in culture and language were generally deemed to be descended from their forefather Shem. Enemies were often said to be descendants of his cursed nephew, Canaan (even though Hebrew in reality, is itself a Canaanite language)..........................



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