wine or grape juice ? (holy supper)

[lambofgod43985889]

i've seen churches that use wine, other grape juice

what is the difference?

 

[A. Sinner]

Nothing. Both symbolize the same thing. Just one has alcohol and the other does not.

 

[Mathetes66]

In the local church assembly I minister in & attend, both are offered. There are a number in recovery from alcohol (myself included, sober for many years) & it is appreciated that both are offered each week...in remembrance of Him & in proclaiming His death until He comes. His sacrifice, our service & being a living sacrifice in Him, being lights shining in a dark & deceived world.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

i've seen churches that use wine, other grape juice

what is the difference?

Doesn't seem that it matters?

Our Church has discussed this more than once and are sticking with real wine.

I don't drink booze (for good reasons) but, that little shot of wine during communion time does not set me off.

If I decide to drink -- I will go down the mountain to the store and buy me a few bottles.

Haven't had a drink in 12 years and don't count communion as drinking.

I do understand that for some drunks it may be a stumbling block?

It don't matter. Just be sure that we attend a Church that takes communion often.

Do this often in remembrance of me.

M-Bob

 

[thecolorsblend]

i've seen churches that use wine, other grape juice

what is the difference?

Well, one is fermented and the other isn't.

Traditional worship incorporates wine as that is what Our Lord used during the Last Supper.

 

[Albion]

Agree. There is a question whenever something that is not what Jesus used (and said we should use) is NOT what is distributed during Holy Communion.

In the case of juice instead of wine, it's a close call (no need to go into the details involved with that debate again), but it is something to consider.

 

[Jonaitis]

i've seen churches that use wine, other grape juice what is the difference?

We use "non-alcoholic" wine in our services in following the biblical prescription of the Lord's Table. The ABV is too low to be considered alcoholic, but it has enough to be considered "wine," although normally wines are usually above 10%. Anyways, this is more acceptable than giving people (especially ex-alcoholics and teenagers in our congregation) anything against the law.

They say the alcohol content in the day would have been much lower than today's standard.

 

[seeking.IAM]

...They say the alcohol content in the day would have been much lower than today's standard.

Who are "they?" Do you have a citation for that?

 

[tz620q]

i've seen churches that use wine, other grape juice

what is the difference?

Looked up wine consumption by country once and was surprised to see that Vatican City has one of the highest per capita daily consumption. Like 5 times higher than the U.S. Then I realized that there are less than 1000 people who live there and they serve communion wine to thousands daily. Sip by Sip adds up.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Vatican City has one of the highest per capita daily consumption.

Like 5 times higher than the U.S. Then I realized that there are less than 1000 people who live there and they serve communion wine to thousands daily. Sip by Sip adds up.

Wonder if they have 12 Step Meetings there?
Probably closed meetings?
M-Bob

 

[twin1954]

Wine represents the blood of Christ. Grape juice does not. In all my years of ministry I never once even heard of an alcoholic relapsing because they drank wine in the Lord's Supper.

 

[Albion]

Wine represents the blood of Christ. Grape juice does not.

Wine not only represents the blood of Christ but it is what Jesus used at the Last Supper when he instituted the ordinance and commended it to his followers. Grape juice was not involved.

But on the other hand, if I am in a church that believes the bread and wine are only representations of something and the event is, in total, a symbol and a commemoration...

I wonder if it is wrong of them to use juice for that very reason--it is only a representation of something else.

 

[RDKirk]

Who are "they?" Do you have a citation for that?

Ancient wine could not have been any less alcoholic than traditional wines today. That's a matter of natural chemistry.

There are modern "fortified" wines that are of higher alcohol content, but just like "high octane" gas, they tell you that right on the label and the price tag.

Get a wine like Mogen David, and it's made old school.

However, from what Justin Martyr wrote, it appears that they did water down the wine they used for communion, as a normal practice--but he did not attach any theological reason to it.

 

[Albion]

However, from what Justin Martyr wrote, it appears that they did water down the wine they used for communion, as a normal practice--but he did not attach any theological reason to it.

There you go.

and for ordinary use as well.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Ancient wine could not have been any less alcoholic than traditional wines today. That's a matter of natural chemistry...However, from what Justin Martyr wrote, it appears that they did water down the wine they used for communion, as a normal practice--but he did not attach any theological reason to it.

Ah, yes. And that's my point. I believe those claiming early Christians used non-fermented "new wine" or that wine made then had a lower alcohol content are into revisionist history or wishful thinking. Wine was used in Christian sacraments until the 1800's. Thomas Welch, a Methodist minister and temperance adherent pasteurized grape juice in 1865. Yes, that Welch's Grape Juice. The UMC still uses grape juice to this day. I sometimes wonder how motivated he was by Christian conviction and how much by entrepreneurship? At any rate wine was suitable in Christianity for 1800 years, and it's still suitable today.

 

[Jonaitis]

There you go.

and for ordinary use as well.

Yes, I should have been more clear. I do believe wine in the day was as alcoholic as ours, but for ordinary use it wasn't as strong. Interesting how you can leave out little details and it changes the whole narrative.

 

[Jonaitis]

Shoot, the meme is too small.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

I do believe wine in the day was as alcoholic as ours

Well for sure The Bible mentions quite a few people getting drunk. It also says that drunkards will not go to heaven. Obviously there was some strong booze back then.
M-Bob

 

[Jonaitis]

Well for sure The Bible mentions quite a few people getting drunk. It also says that drunkards will not go to heaven. Obviously there was some strong booze back then.
M-Bob

Obviously.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Well, one is fermented and the other isn't.

Traditional worship incorporates wine as that is what Our Lord used during the Last Supper.

According to you, he used blood. A protestant who rejects transubstantiation is no closer in your book whether he uses juice or wine. Seeing that this is the Baptist section....