wine or grape juice ? (holy supper)

[Albion]

I've never been in a church that didn't offer juice, and I've never had wine in my life. I never intend to, for any reason.

The main reason that churches use grape juice is because the Welch's Grape Juice company made a big push, a century ago, about it being non-alcoholic, etc. etc. That was a time when public drunkenness was a big concern, which ultimately led to Prohibition.

We who use wine, as the church did for many centuries previous, do so because that was what Christ used and also what he told us to do. But that aside, at Communion each person takes in such a small amount that it's not at all what you may be imagining.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

But that aside, at Communion each person takes in such a small amount that it's not at all what you may be imagining.

I was imagining a very small amount. I have no objection to using wine for communion. I've never done it, and I never expect to, but obviously Christ used it, so such an objection could only go so far.

 

[Albion]

Thanks for the follow-up. I took your previous post to mean something quite different, so I'm glad to have the clarification.

That's what can happen when we can read the words but not hear the other person actually speak them.

 

[9Rock9]

The reasoning I've heard for using only grape juice is because there could be a recovering alcholic in the congregation, and the church could be unintentionally tempting them if they used wine.

 

[RDKirk]

The reasoning I've heard for using only grape juice is because there could be a recovering alcholic in the congregation, and the church could be unintentionally tempting them if they used wine.

Truth is, a slice of sourdough bread can contain as much alcohol as that thimble full of ordinary wine.

But churches could do what we know from ancient documents that the early church did: Cut the wine with water.

 

[seeking.IAM]

It wasn't a problem until 1869 when Methodist minister Thomas Welch first pasteurized grape juice and the temperance movement came along.

 

[geronimemoindio]

as far as i know wine was never the problem but mans abuse of it so if a church decides to use grape juice then they are declaring that their members are weak and addicts

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Truth is, a slice of sourdough bread can contain as much alcohol as that thimble full of ordinary wine.

But churches could do what we know from ancient documents that the early church did: Cut the wine with water.

Just as an FYI, Eastern Orthodox still add water (lots of it) to the wine. It is given to a recipient with a spoon with a crumble of bread mixed in it. I'm going to estimate that we receive at most 1/4 - 1/2 a teaspoon of watered down wine.

 

[geronimemoindio]

the sad part is that Christianity trying to be Hollier than thou end up watering down the word to their beliefs but not to what God actually wants. wine is not a sin just like food it is the abuse that makes it a sin .

 

[Bob Crowley]

Looked up wine consumption by country once and was surprised to see that Vatican City has one of the highest per capita daily consumption. Like 5 times higher than the U.S. Then I realized that there are less than 1000 people who live there and they serve communion wine to thousands daily. Sip by Sip adds up.

The Vatican is in Italy, which has a high wine consumption to begin with, holding third world ranking (or tenth - depends on whose list you use).

According to the following article, US wine consumption per head is about 12 litres per head, while the Italians drank 44 litres per head. I'm pretty sure a large part of the Vatican population would be Italian, so there is a cultural influence at work.

Topping it off would no doubt be the Eucharistic use of wine, but in my experience a sip of Eucharistic wine is just that - a sip.

Which country drinks the most wine?.

To my surprise, Norfolk Island topped the list.

The World's Biggest Wine Drinkers in 2017 | MoveHub

For a bit of touristy info, here's a link about Norfolk Island. I've never been there, but my wife has.

Ten things you might not know about Norfolk Island

 

[HantsUK]

The Vatican is in Italy, which has a high wine consumption to begin with, holding third world ranking (or tenth - depends on whose list you use).

According to the following article, US wine consumption per head is about 12 litres per head, while the Italians drank 44 litres per head. I'm pretty sure a large part of the Vatican population would be Italian, so there is a cultural influence at work.

The Vatican is a separate country, and so is technically not 'in' Italy, but an enclave surrounded by Italy.

I don't think consumption figures expressed per head (or should that be per 'mouth'? ) are meaningful, as much of the wine will be drunk by visitors. Also, many of these will not be Italian.

I also wonder how much of the wine drunk in Norfolk Island is actually consumed by tourists from neighbouring islands? But is Norfolk Island actually a separate nation, or part of Australia?

 

[Bob Crowley]

I also wonder how much of the wine drunk in Norfolk Island is actually consumed by tourists from neighbouring islands? But is Norfolk Island actually a separate nation, or part of Australia?

Most visitors would fly in from Australia or New Zealand. I don't think there'd be much traffic from neighbouring islands as I don't think there are any in close proximity. It's about 1000kms from Australia, 770 kms from Noumea and 1460 kms from New Zealand. It's isolated.

It's an Australian Territory. I'm not au fait with what legislation applies to "Australian Territories", or how it is applied, but here's a bit of a run down on the political situation -

Politics of Norfolk Island - Wikipedia

In very recent news, it appears the Queensland Government (my state) will probably be taking over responsibility for some of Norfolk Island's service eg. Education.

NSW walks away from Norfolk Island services, Queensland poised to take control