KhaosTheory
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Nothing ever turns into a completely different type of animal... That's not how biology works...
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Win a debate against evolution every time.
- Thread starter jilfe
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Nothing ever turns into a completely different type of animal... That's not how biology works...
Metal Minister
New Year, Still Old School!
KhaosTheory said:
Then how can a bird come from a dinosaur? They are EXTREMELY different. You just shot your own theory in the foot...
View attachment 127507
May God Richly Bless You! MM
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KhaosTheory said:
Wait a minute? I thought we evolved from single cell organisms? Would you not consider them a different kind of animal? If your statement is true, it would suggest you do not believe in macro evolution.
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KhaosTheory
Well-Known Member
funny you should recommend that... You know I've actually been to the grand canyon and we didn't find any rabbits below the tapeats sandstone layer...
We did however find a few brachiopod shells but alas, not a single precambrian rabbit... I wonder why...
You'd think someone would have found at least one by now... I mean, millions must have died together in the flood, right?
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KhaosTheory
Well-Known Member
No they aren't... Birds are very similair to dinosaurs and we've shown it morphologically and genetically...
Something completely different would be... anything from the mollusk family maybe... But even birds and mollusks aren't completely different. They at least share a very distant common ancestor.
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KhaosTheory
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How different is different enough for you to consider it "completely" different?
You implied that two salamanders who are different ,colors, have different features, and can't even interbred with each other aren't different enough for you.... So... how different do they have to be before you'll admit that they are different animals?
You implied that two salamanders who are different ,colors, have different features, and can't even interbred with each other aren't different enough for you.... So... how different do they have to be before you'll admit that they are different animals?
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Hello,
That is not experimenting, that is taking a hypothetical idea called the geologic column, and using that as a background for your investigations with a natural phenomena.
If you really want to prove the geologic column is the only way for sedimentary layers, then do the experiment, as a scientist, do science, make a scientific apparatus to demonstrate "IF" sedimentary layering can only happen over emence expanse of time, OR can it happen quickly through water laying down layers over short periods of time.
Everything you bring to this debate is always debunked, because your bringing others INTERPRETATIONS of natural phenomena, without investigating it fully your own personal self.
Unless you build a apparatus to experiment if sedimentary layers can be layed down either way, then you have nothing to debate about, your just rersounding what others say.
Give us your own experimental findingfs of sedimentary layering, then share with us your findings.
That way you can do science in a scientific TRUTHFULL way.
Thankyou.
That is not experimenting, that is taking a hypothetical idea called the geologic column, and using that as a background for your investigations with a natural phenomena.
If you really want to prove the geologic column is the only way for sedimentary layers, then do the experiment, as a scientist, do science, make a scientific apparatus to demonstrate "IF" sedimentary layering can only happen over emence expanse of time, OR can it happen quickly through water laying down layers over short periods of time.
Everything you bring to this debate is always debunked, because your bringing others INTERPRETATIONS of natural phenomena, without investigating it fully your own personal self.
Unless you build a apparatus to experiment if sedimentary layers can be layed down either way, then you have nothing to debate about, your just rersounding what others say.
Give us your own experimental findingfs of sedimentary layering, then share with us your findings.
That way you can do science in a scientific TRUTHFULL way.
Thankyou.
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Ok,
So findings show that sedementary layers can happen quickly.
therefor it is possible scientifically that it does not havew to take millions of years to happen.
About the fossils,
not being mixed together,
being truthfull with yourself, is it possible for a paleontologist, who may have an atheistic background, that if they should come across a fossil that they know should not be there, that they in all probability would try to hide that evidence, or disregard it in ther findings?
You are satisfied with all your personal findings of fossils in each layer, however have you really did enough searchiings of this pattern to make the claim it is an overall pattern completely proven with nothing against it,
in other words have you personally gone to the areas where Creation scientists are making discoveries, if you have not gone to the areas of these findingfs you have not did enough search findings to make your theory more appropriate.
You need to test there findings as well, by seeing it for yourself, before you can say you have enough personal evidence for your theory.
You need to personally look at both findings.
That's truthfull science.
So findings show that sedementary layers can happen quickly.
therefor it is possible scientifically that it does not havew to take millions of years to happen.
About the fossils,
not being mixed together,
being truthfull with yourself, is it possible for a paleontologist, who may have an atheistic background, that if they should come across a fossil that they know should not be there, that they in all probability would try to hide that evidence, or disregard it in ther findings?
You are satisfied with all your personal findings of fossils in each layer, however have you really did enough searchiings of this pattern to make the claim it is an overall pattern completely proven with nothing against it,
in other words have you personally gone to the areas where Creation scientists are making discoveries, if you have not gone to the areas of these findingfs you have not did enough search findings to make your theory more appropriate.
You need to test there findings as well, by seeing it for yourself, before you can say you have enough personal evidence for your theory.
You need to personally look at both findings.
That's truthfull science.
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KhaosTheory
Well-Known Member
Oh I see. So you shouldn't believe anything unless you do the experiment yourself?
Well then what are you doing using that computer? Some atheist could have programmed it. You know bill gates is an atheist, right?
God help you if you are using windows right now! Their science is built in such shaky ground... Your computer might explode it your face without warning!
Well this thread has definitely devolved... And I'm pretty sure that the lurkers who have been my primary audience are sick of this by now so I'll concede this thread to you guys.
God bless.
Well then what are you doing using that computer? Some atheist could have programmed it. You know bill gates is an atheist, right?
God help you if you are using windows right now! Their science is built in such shaky ground... Your computer might explode it your face without warning!
Well this thread has definitely devolved... And I'm pretty sure that the lurkers who have been my primary audience are sick of this by now so I'll concede this thread to you guys.
God bless.
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Smidlee
Veteran
I'm sure some MAC users would agree. ( Note that Windows is software which has no mass while a computer is hardware. )
Also some evolutionist scientist have admitted that a Precambrian rabbit would not falsify evolution. They would simple do what they always do when they find a fossil earlier than thought. That is paleontologists would simply revise their reconstruction of the history of life.
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Metal Minister
New Year, Still Old School!
Toodaloo! Thanks for playing! I notice you're leaving as soon as you realize you destroyed your own theory in sudden burst of free thinking! Really, how much different does it get than a rabbit to a rabbit, or on the other end of the equation a puddle of chemical soup and a human?KhaosTheory said:
May God Richly Bless You! MM
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KTskater
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Does this also apply to you and other creationists who make claims about science that disproves evolution? Shouldn't you be getting your hands dirty in the lab, too. Let's keep some consistency.
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Please understand, I don't doubt your sincere love for God, I am not judging your relationship with God, God knows your heart, I was just suggesting please look at all the options available during a scientific investigation, there are many animals that were not native to the americas, so please consider every angle that is available for study.
God Bless you...
God Bless you...
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That is, in fact, the first rule of presuppositional apologetics, you never argue evidence with someone who is predisposed against the Gospel. What I get out of these debates and discussions are actual explorations of the evidence, not here because theistic evolutionists don't have a clue. I have done considerable research on the scientific literature and it's fascinating. Here, I simply study the evolutionist and it's really more of a pass time then anything else.
Theistic evolutionists are interesting because they don't realize the fallacious nature of their arguments, they think they are smarter then you just because they are evolutionists. I find that so much more interesting then endless discussions about old bones and dirt.
What really keeps my interest are the times they go silent. It's never a highly technical question, invariably it's very basic biology or Scripture. Mutations are failures of DNA repair, Adam is spoken of as the first parent of humanity 8 times in the New Testament and never as a metaphor. Simple things. For instance, have you ever had a conversation with a TE about the resurrection or defending the faith against secular skeptics?
I never have and doubt I ever will. Just getting them to admit the you have to be a Creationist in order to be a Christian is like pulling teeth which is weird. I nearly went over to theistic evolution thinking it was the proper view, rearranging my theology would not have been terribly difficult and I'm 100% certain I could have defended TOE and a Christian apologetic with east. None of them do that, or anything like that and it's just plain weird because it's not that difficult and we are talking about essential doctrine here. The Nicene Creed starts right off with creation and the incarnation. I don't know if you ever studied Christian Apologetics but the always emphasis the deity of Christ. It would seem that the incarnation and creation are about as foundational as doctrine gets, at least with regards to defending the faith.
Grace and peace,
Mark
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Demonstrated or directly observed? Better yet, here's food for thought for these 'lurkers' in the audience. Science existed before empirical testing.
Wow, did you just equivocate computer science and atheism? Seriously?
Laughter from the dark theater, maniacal laughter, from the back or maybe the balcony.
It's not devolved, it's derailed. I just can't tell if your poisoning the well for Creationists or performing for your Darwinian puppet masters. Either way, there's one in every thread.
Grace and peace,
Mark
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Brothers and sisters in the Lord,
This is how we as Christians win a debate against theistic macroevolution everytime,
Winning a debate does not mean that we deliver them from there delusion, only God can do that for them, but rather we stay focused on God's Written WORD, and we are not desuaded to move in there direction, because of our foundational truths we stay established in.
Winning this kind of debate means we did not falter to there way of thinking.
This can only be by God's Holy Spirit, working in and through us to protect us just as His written Word promises us.
Thank God we can learn how to rely on God by His written word given to us to keep us as His own.
As Jesus stated
Jn:10:4: And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Jn:10:5: And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
Jn:10:27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
It is by presenting the written Word (Holy Bible), as our standing point in every part of a debating discussion.
The people who are for the macro ideas, are only working with naturallistic data coupled with WILD IMAGINATION.
I believe the Holy Spirit is saying through His written Word, we as Christians need to begin to apply the same tactics, if they can use wild imaginations to preserve there god (naturalistic data),
then we could use our imaginations to preserve God's credability.
Here is the written scripture verse we can use to confirm this type of tactic,
Heb:11:19: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Abraham was able to use His imagination to believe God could do the impossible, if that's what it would take for God to remain faithful to His promise to Abraham.
So we also can begin to use our imaginations to speak of God's ways to preserve His writtyen Word.
Because if we use our imaginations to believe God could do things that are out of this worlds way of naturalistic thinking, ONLY so as to be able to keep God's WRITTEN WORD as the focus of the discussion, then we are in actuality excersising our faith in God that He is who He says He is, ALMIGHTY, ALL KNOWING, ALL PRESENT ,EVERLASTING GOD.
So I believe God could send a delusion to those who have purposefully chosen to reject God's word on this matter.
Here are the scripture verses to prove God can cause those who are against Him to be confused.
Ex:7:3: And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
Ex:7:13: And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
Dan:4:28: All this came upon the king Nebuchadnezzar.
29: At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.
30: The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?
31: While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.
32: And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
33: The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
34: And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
35: And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
36: At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellers and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
37: Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.
There are other scriptures where God sent confusion into the enemies camps, so God can perform His will for His people,
Whatever limaginitvel statement they make about there naturalistic discoveries, we can couteract with expressing the miraculous powers of God with faithful imagination,
Remember we are preserving the Word of God in these debates, so anything miraculous we can think up, we can bavk it up by sharing the miracles God did in times past, lets start sharing our debating discussions using the written Word as God gave us to do, just as there using there manmade written ideas.
God wins every time.
Thank God Amen.
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
This is how we as Christians win a debate against theistic macroevolution everytime,
Winning a debate does not mean that we deliver them from there delusion, only God can do that for them, but rather we stay focused on God's Written WORD, and we are not desuaded to move in there direction, because of our foundational truths we stay established in.
Winning this kind of debate means we did not falter to there way of thinking.
This can only be by God's Holy Spirit, working in and through us to protect us just as His written Word promises us.
Thank God we can learn how to rely on God by His written word given to us to keep us as His own.
As Jesus stated
Jn:10:4: And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Jn:10:5: And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
Jn:10:27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
It is by presenting the written Word (Holy Bible), as our standing point in every part of a debating discussion.
The people who are for the macro ideas, are only working with naturallistic data coupled with WILD IMAGINATION.
I believe the Holy Spirit is saying through His written Word, we as Christians need to begin to apply the same tactics, if they can use wild imaginations to preserve there god (naturalistic data),
then we could use our imaginations to preserve God's credability.
Here is the written scripture verse we can use to confirm this type of tactic,
Heb:11:19: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Abraham was able to use His imagination to believe God could do the impossible, if that's what it would take for God to remain faithful to His promise to Abraham.
So we also can begin to use our imaginations to speak of God's ways to preserve His writtyen Word.
Because if we use our imaginations to believe God could do things that are out of this worlds way of naturalistic thinking, ONLY so as to be able to keep God's WRITTEN WORD as the focus of the discussion, then we are in actuality excersising our faith in God that He is who He says He is, ALMIGHTY, ALL KNOWING, ALL PRESENT ,EVERLASTING GOD.
So I believe God could send a delusion to those who have purposefully chosen to reject God's word on this matter.
Here are the scripture verses to prove God can cause those who are against Him to be confused.
Ex:7:3: And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
Ex:7:13: And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
Dan:4:28: All this came upon the king Nebuchadnezzar.
29: At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.
30: The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?
31: While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.
32: And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
33: The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
34: And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
35: And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
36: At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellers and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
37: Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.
There are other scriptures where God sent confusion into the enemies camps, so God can perform His will for His people,
Whatever limaginitvel statement they make about there naturalistic discoveries, we can couteract with expressing the miraculous powers of God with faithful imagination,
Remember we are preserving the Word of God in these debates, so anything miraculous we can think up, we can bavk it up by sharing the miracles God did in times past, lets start sharing our debating discussions using the written Word as God gave us to do, just as there using there manmade written ideas.
God wins every time.
Thank God Amen.
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
　
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mark wrote:
Ok, since I was asking which of the various Bibles is the one that was "preserved", as MM said "word for word", it sounds like you are saying that that 66 book Bible was. Is that what you are saying? The NIV or the KJV, which differ by more text than the whole book of 1 Peter? And so are you saying that all Catholic, Coptics, Syrian, and other Christians are deceived by using a corrupted Bible? That doesn't sound like what you are saying below.
OK, so now those other Bibles are OK? Or do you disagree with MM that you chosen Bible has been preserved "word for word"? You mentioned "canonical". I'm certainly not trying to avoid that word, because as I pointed out, it is that these all have different canons of books that makes them so different. As you know, Christians in each of those different churches each claim that their Bible is the canonical one.
Papias
Ok, since I was asking which of the various Bibles is the one that was "preserved", as MM said "word for word", it sounds like you are saying that that 66 book Bible was. Is that what you are saying? The NIV or the KJV, which differ by more text than the whole book of 1 Peter? And so are you saying that all Catholic, Coptics, Syrian, and other Christians are deceived by using a corrupted Bible? That doesn't sound like what you are saying below.
OK, so now those other Bibles are OK? Or do you disagree with MM that you chosen Bible has been preserved "word for word"? You mentioned "canonical". I'm certainly not trying to avoid that word, because as I pointed out, it is that these all have different canons of books that makes them so different. As you know, Christians in each of those different churches each claim that their Bible is the canonical one.
Papias
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You've repeated that several times, yet have only offered scripture that doesn't mention macroevolution, and the reason I asked why you ignored post #259 was because you didn't address the points offered there.
Yes, as we've pointed out many times, God is the originator either way. Do we agree, now, that God is the originator either way?
NO, we don't say that macroevolution can work outside of God, anymore than a new person can be created outside of God. Jilfe, think about how you understand a new baby is made - you understand the biology behind the sperm and egg, etc, and at the same time, I hope you (like me) believe that it is all still the action of God.
　
Just like God had it written down in literal words here:
Papias
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