Willful Ignorance

[Major1]

This thread is about the truth of the Prophetic Word.
As a general rapture of Christians to heaven is not stated anywhere in the Bible, but what God has planned for His people, is comprehensively prophesied, then what is Written is what we must believe.
Jesus will Return, as promised, but much must happen before that glorious Day. Shouldn't we know about it all? 1 Thessalonians 5:4

I think that 2 Tim. 4:2-4 speaks to your opinions very clearly.........
"The time will come when men will not endure sound doctrine, but will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts, and will turn aside from truth to fables. So he charged faithful teachers to preach the truth and rebuke such errors."

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

It is easy to see this willful ignorance in action when watching debates over the creation/evolution issue. In most instances the evolutionists are not interested in the wealth of data, evidence and information the creationists put forward. Often evolutionists attack creationists by attempting to destroy their credibility. They are not interested in facts because they are totally committed to their religious faith called evolution.
.

Creationists tend to post assertions that are not facts as justification of their position. They say scientists are merely guessing about the great age of the earth when scientists use evidence such as accumulated radioactive decay products, formations of things that require vast amounts of time to form (such as hundreds of feet of accumulated chalk)

Scientists know they are merely attempting to learn the truth by examining the evidence. When you falsely accuse them of rebelling against God and then misinterpreting the evidence on purpose as part of that rebellion, they know their own hearts, they know that is nonsense, and truth to tell, they don't appreciate such lies being told of them.

 

[Biblewriter]

You said........
"The real point that I am leading up to, is that of the millions of Christians, most willfully ignore the 1/3rd of the Bible that details what God has planned for our future. They either just don't ever think about it or they have chosen to believe false teachings."

Are you sure that this OP is not about how most people disagree with your views on the Rapture and the 2nd Coming of Christ?

My comment was about the fact that very few have ever even read mot of the prophetic portions of the Bible.

 

[Biblewriter]

Creationists tend to post assertions that are not facts as justification of their position. They say scientists are merely guessing about the great age of the earth when scientists use evidence such as accumulated radioactive decay products, formations of things that require vast amounts of time to form (such as hundreds of feet of accumulated chalk)

Scientists know they are merely attempting to learn the truth by examining the evidence. When you falsely accuse them of rebelling against God and then misinterpreting the evidence on purpose as part of that rebellion, they know their own hearts, they know that is nonsense, and truth to tell, they don't appreciate such lies being told of them.

Have you personally examined the evidence you are speaking of, or are you just relying on what some author of a book or article told the evidence was?

 

[keras]

I think that 2 Tim. 4:2-4 speaks to your opinions very clearly.........
"The time will come when men will not endure sound doctrine, but will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts, and will turn aside from truth to fables. So he charged faithful teachers to preach the truth and rebuke such errors."

So Major1, perhaps you could tell us which teachers we have now that preach the truth. By that I mean; only what is clearly Written and none of the theories that rely on inference and supposition.

Why don't you address the OP?
In a recent post I proved to you with 3 witnesses, that Jesus Returns accompanied by the Angelic armies of heaven. You willfully ignored them.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Have you personally examined the evidence you are speaking of, or are you just relying on what some author of a book or article told the evidence was?

This is a truly offensive post. Deeply, intentionally offensive.

I find his prior comment correct in that many people accept what they are told without question. However, this applies more to those who support the YEC position than those who seek after reality.

The greater number of people who post supporting the YEC position, and those I have met in real life, tend to cite verses - not passages - from the Bible, usually in the KJV, without knowing the actual meaning of many of the words involved and with a complete disregard of the deeper meaning.

Bible writer makes a comment earlier about 'prophetic sections' of the Bible. Very few 'prophetic sections' deal with hard and fast explanations of things to come; mostly a general outline with no specific timelines, other than what someone, perhaps a reputable scholar, perhaps one on the 'loose' side (Harold Camping was both in some degree). None of the 'prophetical sections' give any insight to the creation story.

And always, always, ALWAYS the claim is made those who do not support the YEC hypothesis are rejecting the Bible. What they really say is "If anyone doesn't believe what I believe, they're going to Hell!"

Paul of Eugene cannot report what he has reported without looking into the matter. It is the YEC faction and their supporters who refuse to learn anything, instead claiming their ignorance is somehow holy and a superficial view of what they consider the Bible is superior to paying attention to what God has actually done.

 

[Major1]

So Major1, perhaps you could tell us which teachers we have now that preach the truth. By that I mean; only what is clearly Written and none of the theories that rely on inference and supposition.

Why don't you address the OP?
In a recent post I proved to you with 3 witnesses, that Jesus Returns accompanied by the Angelic armies of heaven. You willfully ignored them.

You my friend have show me nothing Biblically. You have given YOUR opinion and I have rejected it now about 100 times which is why I did not respond to your post.

The people who today are faithful teachers of the Word of God are those who actually teach the Word of God without opinions and self-serving agendas.

 

[Major1]

My comment was about the fact that very few have ever even read mot of the prophetic portions of the Bible.

I thought I was agreeing with that. Did I somehow post the wrong words to your comments by mistake????

 

[keras]

You my friend have show me nothing Biblically. You have given YOUR opinion and I have rejected it now about 100 times which is why I did not respond to your post.

OK, my 'opinion' is that when the Bible says 3 times that Jesus will Return accompanied by the Angelic armies of heaven, that is what will happen.
Your belief that the 'church' will be in heaven, [no scripture saying when this could happen, or even that it will] and comes back to earth with Jesus, is simply false. You willfully ignore the truth; why?

Care to name a 'teacher of the truth'? Maybe John Hagee or Jack van Impe?

 

[Biblewriter]

I thought I was agreeing with that. Did I somehow post the wrong words to your comments by mistake????

It was not clear to me what you meant. Thank you.

 

[Biblewriter]

This is a truly offensive post. Deeply, intentionally offensive.

I did not mean to be offensive. Instead, I asked an extremely cogent question. You referred to scientific evidence, and I asked you a very simple question, which I will now ask once again, with a little more clarity.

Have you personally examined the scientific evidence for an old earth? This is a simple yes or no question. Is this evidence something you have personally seen, or it it just something you have read about in books or articles?

I ask this for a very simple reason. Some people choose to believe what one group of alleged teachers say, and other people choose to believe what another group of alleged teachers say. But very few have actually personally examined the evidence one way or another.

As you found the question offensive, I highly suspect that if you answer truthfully, your answer will be that no, you have not personally examined the evidence, but that it is taught in so many books, and by so many alleged teachers, that you have concluded that it must be correct.

The problem is that, on almost every question that has been dabated for a long time, anyone can easily find a large number of alleged teachers who said whatever they want to believe.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Have you personally examined the evidence you are speaking of, or are you just relying on what some author of a book or article told the evidence was?

I must confess that when a scientist posts about the observation of radioactive decay he has analyzed I don't go back and analyze it myself. But there are so many of them that DO go back and report similar findings . . . and the universities are open to take the training and newcomers to the fields report similar findings . . . so it seems to me to be inappropriate to assert they are all making stuff up. The scientists do things like make atomic bombs that assures me they do, in fact, have knowledge of atomic radiation and so this leads me to be more accepting of their reports on the radioactive age determinations they make. Then there are the geologists and their findings . . .

I have seen the white cliffs of Dover. All those diatoms piling up to make those chalk cliffs did not happen in a mere 5 to 10 thousand years.

 

[Biblewriter]

I find his prior comment correct in that many people accept what they are told without question. However, this applies more to those who support the YEC position than those who seek after reality.

The greater number of people who post supporting the YEC position, and those I have met in real life, tend to cite verses - not passages - from the Bible, usually in the KJV, without knowing the actual meaning of many of the words involved and with a complete disregard of the deeper meaning.

Actually, I am OEC. But I find what you say here is basically correct, as far as most YEC people go. But this does not change the fact that almost everyone who believes in an old earth is basing that belief on what is alleged to be scientific information that they have either read in books and articles, or been personally told it by alleged teachers.

I believe in OEC because I have personally examined the scriptures in question, and have personally examined he Hebrew words involved, and am therefore convinced that a literal reading of the scriptures, as God originally gave them to us, not only allows, but actually requires, the conclusion that the earth itself is older that the present creation, which is about six thousand years old.

That is, I believe that the scriptures actually teach that God created the heavens and the earth, and that, some unspecified time after God had created them, the earth fell into ruin. And then, about six thousand years ago, sometime around four thousand years before our Lord came into this world, God re-created this old earth in a new form in just six 24 hour days.

 

[Biblewriter]

Bible writer makes a comment earlier about 'prophetic sections' of the Bible. Very few 'prophetic sections' deal with hard and fast explanations of things to come; mostly a general outline with no specific timelines, other than what someone, perhaps a reputable scholar, perhaps one on the 'loose' side (Harold Camping was both in some degree). None of the 'prophetical sections' give any insight to the creation story.

Actually you are mistaken about the prophetic sections of the Bible. Many of them are explicitly stated, in significant detail. When I sat down to write a book just about those portions of the prophetic scriptures that are explicitly stated in plain words. the book eventually grew to 300 pages. (This is now in the process of being formally published.)

 

[Biblewriter]

And always, always, ALWAYS the claim is made those who do not support the YEC hypothesis are rejecting the Bible. What they really say is "If anyone doesn't believe what I believe, they're going to Hell!"

Paul of Eugene cannot report what he has reported without looking into the matter. It is the YEC faction and their supporters who refuse to learn anything, instead claiming their ignorance is somehow holy and a superficial view of what they consider the Bible is superior to paying attention to what God has actually done.

It is not only the YECers who refuse to learn anything. very few will even seriously consider whether or not any opinion other than their own could even possibly be correct.

 

[Biblewriter]

I must confess that when a scientist posts about the observation of radioactive decay he has analyzed I don't go back and analyze it myself. But there are so many of them that DO go back and report similar findings . . . and the universities are open to take the training and newcomers to the fields report similar findings . . . so it seems to me to be inappropriate to assert they are all making stuff up. The scientists do things like make atomic bombs that assures me they do, in fact, have knowledge of atomic radiation and so this leads me to be more accepting of their reports on the radioactive age determinations they make. Then there are the geologists and their findings . . .

I have seen the white cliffs of Dover. All those diatoms piling up to make those chalk cliffs did not happen in a mere 5 to 10 thousand years.

I am myself a retired applied scientist. And in the course of my extensive and wide ranging studies, I have found that many widely accepted "scientific" facts are simply accepted on faith that whoever first published such-and-such a study, did so correctly and honestly.

I personally am old enough to remember the great shake up when a stupid Japeneese student insisted that the human cell he was examining did not contain 24 pairs of chromosomes. Everyone knew there were 24 chromosomes in a human cell. This was well known to be thoroughly established scientific fact. But this one lone student just kept insisting that the human cell he was examining only had 23 pairs of chromosomes. The teacher finally examined that cell for himself, and was amazed to found that the student was right. Then they examined several other human cells and found the same. so the published a paper saying that they had discovered that some human cells only contained only 23 pairs of chromosomes, rather that the thoroughly established norm of 24 pairs.

This caused scientists all over the world to pull out the samples they already had in their cases, and actually count the pairs of chromosomes. It took less than two months for the entire world to know that it was incorrect that the human cell contained 24 pairs of chromosomes. It only contains 23 pairs, which is not thoroughly established and well known - until someone else also discovers that this new number is also wrong.

This took place in my University days, during the semiser I was studying cell physiology. It greatly shook my faith in "science" as a whole. For this was a simple matter of counting, that anyone could do. And everyone had both the samples and the required instruments already in their laboratories. But, since someone had written this number in a report, and someone put it in a textbook, everyone had simply accepted it as fact, and not even one scientist in the entire world had even bothered to check and see if it was correct.

As I continued my education, and afterward as I was employed in my field of expertese, I found many cases in which "scientists" had published erroneous information. Sometimes this was due to sloppy work. But all too often, it was due to willful deception. And as my research continued, I found two fields in which dissent was energetically quashed. In each of these fields, only the "majority" view was allowed. Dissent was not only scoffed at, but energetically condemned.

And these two fields were evolution and global warming. in both of these fields, anyone daring to even question the "consensus" view was energetically attacked. These very attacks prove that these ideas are not based on rational thought, but on chosen beliefs.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I am myself a retired applied scientist. And in the course of my extensive and wide ranging studies, I have found that many widely accepted "scientific" facts are simply accepted on faith that whoever first published such-and-such a study, did so correctly and honestly.

I personally am old enough to remember the great shake up when a stupid Japeneese student insisted that the human cell he was examining did not contain 24 pairs of chromosomes. Everyone knew there were 24 chromosomes in a human cell. This was well known to be thoroughly established scientific fact. But this one lone student just kept insisting that the human cell he was examining only had 23 pairs of chromosomes. The teacher finally examined that cell for himself, and was amazed to found that the student was right. Then they examined several other human cells and found the same. so the published a paper saying that they had discovered that some human cells only contained only 23 pairs of chromosomes, rather that the thoroughly established norm of 24 pairs.

This caused scientists all over the world to pull out the samples they already had in their cases, and actually count the pairs of chromosomes. It took less than two months for the entire world to know that it was incorrect that the human cell contained 24 pairs of chromosomes. It only contains 23 pairs, which is not thoroughly established and well known - until someone else also discovers that this new number is also wrong.

This took place in my University days, during the semiser I was studying cell physiology. It greatly shook my faith in "science" as a whole. For this was a simple matter of counting, that anyone could do. And everyone had both the samples and the required instruments already in their laboratories. But, since someone had written this number in a report, and someone put it in a textbook, everyone had simply accepted it as fact, and not even one scientist in the entire world had even bothered to check and see if it was correct.

As I continued my education, and afterward as I was employed in my field of expertese, I found many cases in which "scientists" had published erroneous information. Sometimes this was due to sloppy work. But all too often, it was due to willful deception. And as my research continued, I found two fields in which dissent was energetically quashed. In each of these fields, only the "majority" view was allowed. Dissent was not only scoffed at, but energetically condemned.

And these two fields were evolution and global warming. in both of these fields, anyone daring to even question the "consensus" view was energetically attacked. These very attacks prove that these ideas are not based on rational thought, but on chosen beliefs.

But the counts, when brought to the attention of the world, were verified and textbooks were revised.

I don't have the expertise to verify DNA sequences. But I do have the expertise to note that I have ear wiggling muscles . . . which are useless, and can best be explained as vestiges. I can wiggle my ears.

So as for the evidence for evolution and the age of the earth, I can indeed verify a small amount of that evidence.

 

[Psalm3704]

Are you sure that this OP is not about how most people disagree with your views on the Rapture and the 2nd Coming of Christ?

Major1 just nailed it right here.

I highly recommend every reader on this forum not to judge a book by it's cover but try and get to know each individual and examine their real motives within. 2 Corinthians 11:14.

Unfortunately most people here aren't aware of what's going on but a few of us have already figured it out.

Please don't encourage their works. You will know them by their love of the truth, how their beliefs line-up to scriptures.

Ephesians 5:11-12 New King James Version (NKJV)
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.​

1 John 2:18-20 New Living Translation (NLT)
18 Dear children, the last hour is here. You have heard that the Antichrist is coming, and already many such antichrists have appeared. From this we know that the last hour has come. 19 These people left our churches, but they never really belonged with us; otherwise they would have stayed with us. When they left, it proved that they did not belong with us. 20 But you are not like that, for the Holy One has given you his Spirit, and all of you know the truth.​

.

 

[Biblewriter]

But the counts, when brought to the attention of the world, were verified and textbooks were revised.

I don't have the expertise to verify DNA sequences. But I do have the expertise to note that I have ear wiggling muscles . . . which are useless, and can best be explained as vestiges. I can wiggle my ears.

So as for the evidence for evolution and the age of the earth, I can indeed verify a small amount of that evidence.

And I can personally verify several things:

I have personally read, in mainstream scientific journals, calls to boycott publishers that dare to publish material challenging evolution. And I have also read such calles in leake "climate science" e-mails.

I have personally read statements by recognized experts in each of the fields of "evidence" about evolution, saying that, although evolution itself was unquestionably correct, the claims about the evidence in this expert's particular field were actually erroneous. This would be a mere glitch, except that it occurs in every major field of such "evidence."

For instance leading experts in embryology clearly state that what is commnly called "the theory of recapitulation" is "outside the facts," etc.

 

[keras]

And these two fields were evolution and global warming. in both of these fields, anyone daring to even question the "consensus" view was energetically attacked. These very attacks prove that these ideas are not based on rational thought, but on chosen beliefs.

Add the 'rapture to heaven theory' to those two fields. Any challenge to that cozy idea meets with virulent and personal attacks. But often this harsh reaction rebounds onto those who do it, because their unchristian hatred shows and the scriptures they use fail to prove their case.

Please discuss evolution and Creation elsewhere.