Will you know when you've been regenerated?

[corinth77777]

Free will = salvation by self-righteousness. Only "good" people would want to pal around with God.

I disagree with you...brother in Christ...
I believe there is a place for our efforts ..there are surely many things we cannot do on our own, but there are things we can. For example repent and believe the gospel. God seems to have given every man a measure of faith..and with that faith is it not so that it's in the process of the way of Him coming to God.

 

[Dave L]

I disagree with you...brother in Christ...
I believe there is a place for our efforts ..there are surely many things we cannot do on our own, but there are things we can. For example repent and believe the gospel. God seems to have given every man a measure of faith..and with that faith is it not so that it's in the process of the way of Him coming to God.

“And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—” (Ephesians 2:1–5)

 

[Dave L]

Misquote. It's actually faithfulness.
Galatians 5:22-23 Amplified Bible
22 But the fruit of the Spirit [the result of His presence within us] is love [unselfish concern for others], joy, [inner] peace, patience [not the ability to wait, but how we act while waiting], kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Either way, it comes not from the flesh, but from the Holy Spirit who must already be present before faith or faithfulness exists.

 

[corinth77777]

“And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—” (Ephesians 2:1–5)

Yes but when did He make you alive?

 

[Dave L]

Yes but when did He make you alive?

When we were dead in sin.

 

[corinth77777]

“And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—” (Ephesians 2:1–5)

As Dallas WILLARD states Grace is unmerritted favor..but what is the unmerrited favor? It's God doing what we can not do on our own. HE SAYS GRACE IS NOT OPPOSED TO EFFORT BUT EARNING...FOR EARNING COMES WITH ATTITUDE AND BOASTING.

 

[Dave L]

As Dallas WILLARD states Grace is unmerritted favor..but what is the unmerrited favor? It's God doing what we can not do on our own. HE SAYS GRACE IS NOT OPPOSED TO EFFORT BUT EARNING...FOR EARNING COMES WITH ATTITUDE AND BOASTING.

If effort merits salvation, self-righteousness merits salvation.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

J


I am not sure, but I don't think righteousness comes through[by] our faith but rather through the faith of Jesus. That may be understood 2 ways for me.

Either we take on the type of faith Jesus had
Which was obedience to the father.

Or Jesus is the faithful priest that lives to interceed for us as we transform unto His image.

The faith that the christians had and understood is now being understood as having no faith but just trusting that Jesus has faith. If one thinks about this for 5minutes, one can easily see that all responsiblity is now being completely shifted unto Jesus and the believer does not even have to believe anymore. He just needs to trust that Jesus believes. The "do nothing God has done it all" theology takes a new step in a downward spiral to relieving man of doing anything at all, including believing.

 

[corinth77777]

When we were dead in sin.

Yes but how? What part did we play?

 

[Dave L]

Yes but how? What part did we play?

We did not play any part in our new birth just as we did not play any part in out physical birth. We heard about Jesus and it hit home with us. We knew it was true and responded according to our new nature. Your faith is proof God saved you. It would not exist had he not.

 

[corinth77777]

The faith that the christians had and understood is now being understood as having no faith but just trusting that Jesus has faith. If one thinks about this for 5minutes, one can easily see that all responsiblity is now being completely shifted unto Jesus and the believer does not even have to believe anymore. He just needs to just that Jesus believes. The "do nothing God has done it all" theology takes a new step in a downward spiral to relieving man of doing anything at all, including believing.

I agree...its how we are taught...but what I've learned is it's because of the absence of the kingdom message. Believing Jesus for who He is not....merely for what He can do for us.
And as we trust Him for who He is man in my opinion is regenerated and renewed because He is really forgiven for His sins and knows it. But this seems to be ongoing ...which is why the question of initial salvation and when man receive the Spirit that remains in Him. Does the Spirit remain in Him as long as...is man sealed as long as..? Would love to hear the thoughts...as Hillsage believes Men spirit is saved, however the soul...life of the person is still in progress.

 

[corinth77777]

We did not play any part in our new birth just as we did not play any part in out physical birth. We heard about Jesus and it hit home with us. We knew it was true and responded according to our new nature. Your faith is proof God saved you. It would not exist had he not.

You said one thing but explained the opposite

 

[corinth77777]

We did not play any part in our new birth just as we did not play any part in out physical birth. We heard about Jesus and it hit home with us. We knew it was true and responded according to our new nature. Your faith is proof God saved you. It would not exist had he not.

Does God bring man to repentance...if so doesn't man still have to repent? And show signs of repentance?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I agree...its how we are taught...

Too bad because it is wrong.

but what I've learned is it's because of the absence of the kingdom message. Believing Jesus for who He is not....merely for what He can do for us.
And as we trust Him for who He is man in my opinion is regenerated and renewed because He is really forgiven for His sins and knows it. But this seems to be ongoing ...which is why the question of initial salvation and when man receive the Spirit that remains in Him. Does the Spirit remain in Him as long as...is man sealed as long as..? Would love to hear the thoughts...as Hillsage believes Men spirit is saved, however the soul...life of the person is still in progress.

I have no idea what this all means, sorry. I walk with Jesus and He talks with me and I know and understand Him. I am regenerated to the degree my thoughts match his thoughts on a matter. I am less interested in my own regeneration or salvation or sanctification as I am in hearing from Him that He is pleased with me. This I have tasted and I want more. The theology is of less interest to me. The God behind it is of utmost interest.

 

[Dave L]

I agree...its how we are taught...but what I've learned is it's because of the absence of the kingdom message. Believing Jesus for who He is not....merely for what He can do for us.
And as we trust Him for who He is man in my opinion is regenerated and renewed because He is really forgiven for His sins and knows it. But this seems to be ongoing ...which is why the question of initial salvation and when man receive the Spirit that remains in Him. Does the Spirit remain in Him as long as...is man sealed as long as..? Would love to hear the thoughts...as Hillsage believes Men spirit is saved, however the soul...life of the person is still in progress.

Definitely the kingdom message is missing. They all look for the same future kingdom the Pharisees looked for.

But the way you can know for sure Jesus paid for your sins on the cross is your belief in him. He told the Pharisees in John 10 the reason they did not believe was because he did not give his life for them. Jesus said:

“I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.” (John 10:11)

“But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” (John 10:26)

So your faith is proof Jesus died especially for you.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes but how? What part did we play?

We repented and believed. That is the part we played.

 

[Dave L]

Does God bring man to repentance...if so doesn't man still have to repent? And show signs of repentance?

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?” (Romans 2:4)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Definitely the kingdom message is missing. They all look for the same future kingdom the Pharisees looked for.

But the way you can know for sure Jesus paid for your sins on the cross is your belief in him. He told the Pharisees in John 10 the reason they did not believe was because he did not give his life for them. Jesus said:

“I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.” (John 10:11)

“But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” (John 10:26)

So your faith is proof Jesus died especially for you.

"My sheep know my voice and follow me." Seems to me this is the way one knows.

 

[corinth77777]

Too bad because it is wrong.

I have no idea what this all means, sorry. I walk with Jesus and He talks with me and I know and understand Him. I am regenerated to the degree my thoughts match his thoughts on a matter. I am less interested in my own regeneration or salvation or sanctification as I am in hearing from Him that He is pleased with me. This I have tasted and I want more. The theology is of less interest to me. The God behind it is of utmost interest.

Everything is not about you. I was explaining why man are not regenerated...Its because the way many of us have been taught.
And yes it may not have been the right way to teach without mentioning the availability of God's kingdom now.....through Trusting Him.

I am happy for you........

 

[corinth77777]

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?” (Romans 2:4)

Exactly...He lead you there...now what must one do? He must repent.... right?