Will you know when you've been regenerated?

[fhansen]

It's an exception, not the rule, as they say.

I think we sin in many ways-any which way we fail to love in fact. It's a learning experience too-this matter of becoming just.

 

[Hillsage]

Unmerited means unearned...

And “humble yourself” is HOW you “merit to earn” God giving grace to you.

 

[corinth77777]

And “humble yourself” is HOW you “merit to earn” God giving grace to you.

There are many ways the term Grace is used
Hillsage. "Earn" who said anything about earning grace?

 

[Hillsage]

There are many ways the term Grace is used

Please elaborate. As far as I’m concerned the definition does not change no matter what verse it’s used in.

Hillsage. "Earn" who said anything about earning grace?

The bible does say something! And I’ve quoted the scriptures several times now. But you haven’t dealt with them directly at all yet. And in case you haven’t noticed...no one its jumping on board here to refute my POV. Don’t you find that a little bit different? I do.

 

[corinth77777]

Please elaborate. As far as I’m concerned the definition does not change no matter what verse it’s used in.
The bible does say something! And I’ve quoted the scriptures several times now. But you haven’t dealt with them directly at all yet. And in case you haven’t noticed...no one its jumping on board here to refute my POV. Don’t you find that a little bit different? I do.

What is POV?

 

[corinth77777]

Please elaborate. As far as I’m concerned the definition does not change no matter what verse it’s used in.
The bible does say something! And I’ve quoted the scriptures several times now. But you haven’t dealt with them directly at all yet. And in case you haven’t noticed...no one its jumping on board here to refute my POV. Don’t you find that a little bit different? I do.

Hillsage what are you saying that Grace means? I haven't seen you post a definition..but rather that God gives grace to the humble...there's really not much to argue about..For I said Dallas WILLARD says grace is unmerited favor but what is the favor and the favor Is God doing what we cannot do on our own. If you believe it means something else that's fine...But I looked it up and there were many meanings for it.
Context...is important..Ephesians 2:8 ...what is Grace referring to?

 

[corinth77777]

Please elaborate. As far as I’m concerned the definition does not change no matter what verse it’s used in.
The bible does say something! And I’ve quoted the scriptures several times now. But you haven’t dealt with them directly at all yet. And in case you haven’t noticed...no one its jumping on board here to refute my POV. Don’t you find that a little bit different? I do.

www.gotquestions.org/definition-of-grace

 

[Hillsage]

Hillsage what are you saying that Grace means? I haven't seen you post a definition..but rather that God gives grace to the humble...there's really not much to argue about..For I said Dallas WILLARD says grace is unmerited favor but what is the favor and the favor Is God doing what we cannot do on our own. If you believe it means something else that's fine...But I looked it up and there were many meanings for it.

POV is Point Of View.

As I said, and have supported scripturally, Dallas' and the church's definition just doesn't work for me. I even had this discussion with our pastor after church just last week. His definition also was "undeserved favor". At that point I told him about the two scriptures saying we do have to do something and that was 'be humble' which the James scripture confirms but also adds 'therefore humble yourselves'. That 'right there' negates 'undeserved and unmerited'. He knew that, and it was then that his shoulders dropped a bit and he said "Yeah I know about those two scriptures, but this is the most common definition." To which I agreed, it is, but it is still wrong IMO.

You are right I haven't given my definition, but it really is pretty close to what you have just shared. You said; "God doing what we cannot do on our own.." My definition is 'grace is the power to do what God's truth demands'. I believe that definition fits every scripture I ever applied the definition to. Then I went to a conference in Amarillo years ago and heard John Bevere speaking and he gave basically the same definition I had come to. He said he believed that way because of those same scriptures I keep posting and no one ever addresses.

Having said that, let me say this concerning your definition and the problem I have with it. There are things which we CAN do on our own, with self discipline if one is strong willed, but God gets no glory in those situations. There are three kinds of righteousness in my Christian understanding. UN-righteous, RIGHT-righeosness and SELF-righteousness. The first is 'below Christ in my life' and the second is 'above Christ in my life'. UN-righteousness is just plain old unrestrained sinning. Whereas SELF-righteousness is not committing a sin, but in our strength. We see unsaved people do that all the time. Even a Christian, or an unsaved person, can 'quit smoking' 'quit drugs' 'quit sins' in their own power....but God is not imparting His grace for them to do so...especially with non believers. Does that make sense? RIGHT-righteousness is overcoming sin by the power and truth that comes from "I can do all things in Christ strenghtening me..." And it is in that method that God is glorified and not man.

Context...is important..Ephesians 2:8 ...what is Grace referring to?

The undeserved favor in that verse is receiving the gift of FAITH to believe for the 'first' salvation of us as a triune being...our spirit. That FAITH then avails our spirit to the power of regeneration, or being born again. And that 'God imparted power' is my definition of grace in that verse. But even to receive that Grace did you not have to "REPENT" first? That's a step of humbling after the Holy Spirit has convicted you of being a sinner in need of a savior. And He did that when you were still unsaved and 'in the world'.

JOH 16:8 And when he comes, he will convince the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;

 

[corinth77777]

POV is Point Of View.

As I said, and have supported scripturally, Dallas' and the church's definition just doesn't work for me. I even had this discussion with our pastor after church just last week. His definition also was "undeserved favor". At that point I told him about the two scriptures saying we do have to do something and that was 'be humble' which the James scripture confirms but also adds 'therefore humble yourselves'. That 'right there' negates 'undeserved and unmerited'. He knew that, and it was then that his shoulders dropped a bit and he said "Yeah I know about those two scriptures, but this is the most common definition." To which I agreed, it is, but it is still wrong IMO.

You are right I haven't given my definition, but it really is pretty close to what you have just shared. You said; "God doing what we cannot do on our own.." My definition is 'grace is the power to do what God's truth demands'. I believe that definition fits every scripture I ever applied the definition to. Then I went to a conference in Amarillo years ago and heard John Bevere speaking and he gave basically the same definition I had come to. He said he believed that way because of those same scriptures I keep posting and no one ever addresses.

Having said that, let me say this concerning your definition and the problem I have with it. There are things which we CAN do on our own, with self discipline if one is strong willed, but God gets no glory in those situations. There are three kinds of righteousness in my Christian understanding. UN-righteous, RIGHT-righeosness and SELF-righteousness. The first is 'below Christ in my life' and the second is 'above Christ in my life'. UN-righteousness is just plain old unrestrained sinning. Whereas SELF-righteousness is not committing a sin, but in our strength. We see unsaved people do that all the time. Even a Christian, or an unsaved person, can 'quit smoking' 'quit drugs' 'quit sins' in their own power....but God is not imparting His grace for them to do so...especially with non believers. Does that make sense? RIGHT-righteousness is overcoming sin by the power and truth that comes from "I can do all things in Christ strenghtening me..." And it is in that method that God is glorified and not man.

The undeserved favor in that verse is receiving the gift of FAITH to believe for the 'first' salvation of us as a triune being...our spirit. That FAITH then avails our spirit to the power of regeneration, or being born again. And that 'God imparted power' is my definition of grace in that verse. But even to receive that Grace did you not have to "REPENT" first? That's a step of humbling after the Holy Spirit has convicted you of being a sinner in need of a savior. And He did that when you were still unsaved and 'in the world'.

JOH 16:8 And when he comes, he will convince the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;

Hi, yeah I haven't did a study on it...but seems Dallas Has.
......honestly speaking though being humble to me has nothing to do with earning...as being the direct source..or God owing man because man is humble. For God owes no man anything. Repentance shows that we know we are sinners which recognizing our need for a savior. But repentance is not merit It's rather how all of us must come...

 

[Hillsage]

Hi, yeah I haven't did a study on it...but seems Dallas Has.
......honestly speaking though being humble to me has nothing to do with earning...as being the direct source..or God owing man because man is humble. For God owes no man anything. Repentance shows that we know we are sinners which recognizing our need for a savior. But repentance is not merit It's rather how all of us must come...

Well I've done my own studying and am pretty content with it. So if you like Willard's POV better then just go with it.

But, just because Willard used a lot of verses with the word 'grace' in them, doesn't mean he used them right IMO. For example his use of;

JOH 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

But then he never explains just how Jesus Christ needed this 'undeserved favor' from God. But my definition still fits, and that works for me.

Luke 2:40 and the child grew and was strengthened in spirit, being filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him.

I think I'll stick with mine.

 

[corinth77777]

POV is Point Of View.

As I said, and have supported scripturally, Dallas' and the church's definition just doesn't work for me. I even had this discussion with our pastor after church just last week. His definition also was "undeserved favor". At that point I told him about the two scriptures saying we do have to do something and that was 'be humble' which the James scripture confirms but also adds 'therefore humble yourselves'. That 'right there' negates 'undeserved and unmerited'. He knew that, and it was then that his shoulders dropped a bit and he said "Yeah I know about those two scriptures, but this is the most common definition." To which I agreed, it is, but it is still wrong IMO.

You are right I haven't given my definition, but it really is pretty close to what you have just shared. You said; "God doing what we cannot do on our own.." My definition is 'grace is the power to do what God's truth demands'. I believe that definition fits every scripture I ever applied the definition to. Then I went to a conference in Amarillo years ago and heard John Bevere speaking and he gave basically the same definition I had come to. He said he believed that way because of those same scriptures I keep posting and no one ever addresses.

Having said that, let me say this concerning your definition and the problem I have with it. There are things which we CAN do on our own, with self discipline if one is strong willed, but God gets no glory in those situations. There are three kinds of righteousness in my Christian understanding. UN-righteous, RIGHT-righeosness and SELF-righteousness. The first is 'below Christ in my life' and the second is 'above Christ in my life'. UN-righteousness is just plain old unrestrained sinning. Whereas SELF-righteousness is not committing a sin, but in our strength. We see unsaved people do that all the time. Even a Christian, or an unsaved person, can 'quit smoking' 'quit drugs' 'quit sins' in their own power....but God is not imparting His grace for them to do so...especially with non believers. Does that make sense? RIGHT-righteousness is overcoming sin by the power and truth that comes from "I can do all things in Christ strenghtening me..." And it is in that method that God is glorified and not man.

The undeserved favor in that verse is receiving the gift of FAITH to believe for the 'first' salvation of us as a triune being...our spirit. That FAITH then avails our spirit to the power of regeneration, or being born again. And that 'God imparted power' is my definition of grace in that verse. But even to receive that Grace did you not have to "REPENT" first? That's a step of humbling after the Holy Spirit has convicted you of being a sinner in need of a savior. And He did that when you were still unsaved and 'in the world'.

JOH 16:8 And when he comes, he will convince the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[corinth77777]

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Where do you place this "faith" above......unrighteousness or self righteousness

 

[corinth77777]

Hopefully @Hillsage if and when you still have sometime you can help me understand my initial question on regeneration.

 

[Hillsage]

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

That's scripture and I agree. Not sure what your question/point is concerning it.

Where do you place this "faith" above......unrighteousness or self righteousness

I don't place it 'above'. I place it 'before' or 'after'. Since my spirit was regenerated, or initially saved by the 'faith of Jesus', all my 'unrighteousness' and my 'self righteousness' are both 'temporally significant' to my soul's salvation, but they are not 'eternally significant'....as far as GOING TO heaven is concerned. They are only significant for woks done by me this side of glory. Works for REWARDS in HEAVEN HEREAFTER.

So, now if I'm tempted, but walk in faith, I will negate an 'unrighteous' act/sin from taking place in my life. And I will do so now having the same access to the walk of 'faith' that Jesus had when He walked in 'sinful flesh' 'overcoming every 'temptation such as is common to man' by His faith walk.

Hopefully @Hillsage if and when you still have sometime you can help me understand my initial question on regeneration.

I'd be happy to get back to that subject. Now that all the 'unbelieving believers' you've been also dialoguing with have apparently now moved on, from here anyway. So ask a question.

 

[corinth77777]

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him

In the passage above where do you place faith from your p.o.v. self righteousnes or righteous? Etc

 

[Hillsage]

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him

In the passage above where do you place faith from your p.o.v. self righteousnes or righteous? Etc

I am going to ask you a serious question. Are you even reading my posts? I answered this question, in the last post after quoting your above question 'verbatim'.

 

[Der Alte]

...

 

[corinth77777]

I am going to ask you a serious question. Are you even reading my posts? I answered this question, in the last post after quoting your above question 'verbatim'.

Wasn't sure if you misunderstood for when I wrote "above" I was speaking of the passage written above.