Will you know when you've been regenerated?

[corinth77777]

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness/justification is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.Rom3:21&22

Justification is given "through" faith "in"
Or through "faith of"

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness/justification is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.Rom3:21&22

Righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

I am not sure, but I don't think righteousness comes through[by] our faith but rather through the faith of Jesus. That may be understood 2 ways for me.

Either we take on the type of faith Jesus had
Which was obedience to the father.

Or Jesus is the faithful priest that lives to interceed for us as we transform unto His image.

 

[corinth77777]

Dorothy Mae this is what I would believe to be true based on my own experience:

When we read the gospels, we find that Jesus called men to repent. If they already were repenting, then salvation was offered. THis easy "accept Jesus" message as led to many still births, as it were. The people pray the prayer and walk away as unsaved as ever.

That is because the true gospel is to repent of our sins and ask God for forgiveness and keep doing so until you are forgiven. When a person has seen the awefulness of their sin, repented, and experienced forgiveness, then they are regenerated. This dry eyed, feelingless merely saying the words of "I believe" is not it. IF a person has never seen their own sin, they have never seen the cross nor needed it. Wanting to avoid hell is not enough.

Now with this said when is man initially justified?
At the moment He is regenerated or
At the moment He mentally believes Jesus is who He says He is?

For we know that one can be justified before man and one can be justified before God because it's God who is the justifier.

My take on it is...We look to Jesus as Lord
Bringing forth fruit of repentance ...for look at Cornelius who was devout and brought to be delivered by hearing the gospel.

What was He doing that made him devout?
HE probably prayed and kept the law like the Jews.
This in my opinion, is fruit of repentance
Showing whose side He was on.

God has heard Him...and this reminds me of the passage that anyone who does righteous is acceptable onto Him.

Was he saved by his righteousness? NO
For He was not delivered until he believed the gospel.

But one thing we see is He sought the Lord through doing things that were pleasing to Him[so sounds like He had already repented]

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. ACTS 13: 39

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ROMANS 4:5

Sounds like when they looked to Jesus
But when they looked to Jesus were they regenerated at the same time? I doubt it..
But they had to believe. [More to me as walk by faith, or put trust in] amen?

This denotes the fact of the type of faith Jesus had that saved Him. He believed or obeyed His Father and His Father did the work.
Now we can look at Galatians 2;16
And


"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."John 6;40

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. GAL 2:16

SO HOW ARE WE JUSTIFIED BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST?
TO HAVE HIS TYPE OF FAITH
We believe the father when we trust in His son
That was deep right there...smile

But as we look at John 6:4 its "believeth" looks like its continual. Therefore it begs the question for me as to initial salvation? Or rather answers how we can be justified as we walk this course of life while on earth.

Had to reread what I wrote: it sounds like faith in Jesus is the end of being kept by the law. While faith in Jesus justifies...one is not justified until his heart is changed [and when the heart is changed He is Justified and yet the faith that allows Him to know of Is Justification is the actions of the heart. This then seems to be the regeneration for man. Knowing of your new life from above.

Sounds like an intimate relationship- for the outward movement of man is based on the inward change in heart [new creation] but the outward movement of man cannot be regeneration but the new man..the renewed Spirit or mind.

 

[fhansen]

Is the justification status regeneration ?

We're not regenerated first, as if our wills are completely dead and uninvolved. God calls and draws us, without forcing us to come. While fallen man needs help in order to turn to God to begin with, He can still always say "no".

 

[Dave L]

We're not regenerated first, as if our wills are completely dead and uninvolved. God calls and draws us, without forcing us to come. While fallen man needs help in order to turn to God to begin with, He can still always say "no".

This means salvation is only for the self-righteous, and not for the helpless who cannot save themselves.

 

[fhansen]

This means salvation is only for the self-righteous, and not for the helpless who cannot save themselves.

No, it means God is seeking to draw humility out of us; He wants us to respond rather than do everything for some, and then damn the rest. And even at that we can't possibly turn to Him and be saved without Him drawing us first. The difference is that we can still say no. Some do, and some won't.

 

[Dave L]

No, it means God is seeking to draw humility out of us; He wants us to respond rather than do everything for some, and then damn the rest.

So self righteousness saves instead of Jesus?

 

[fhansen]

So self righteousness saves instead of Jesus?

If you insist for some reason.

 

[Dave L]

If you insist for some reason.

dead people cannot do anything. We were spiritually dead until God regenerated us.

 

[Loren T.]

This means salvation is only for the self-righteous, and not for the helpless who cannot save themselves.

Belief in Jesus is not self righteousness. It's the opposite, it is humility and throwing ourselves on God's mercy. The necessity of surrender coming first does not make one self righteous.

 

[fhansen]

dead people cannot do anything. We were spiritually dead until God regenerated us.

The idea of total depravity is not totally wrong, just partially. The will of man is not dead, even if he cannot, on his own turn himself towards God. Man, simply, remains morally accountable-and this is what God appeals to. Otherwise He may as well have prevented Adam from sinning to begin with, or saved him immediately afterwards and either way precluded all the ugly evil: pain, suffering, sin, and death that followed in human history. Instead the evil that we experience-that we know-here on earth has a purpose, of helping us turn away from it and towards the true Good when He calls. The cross is a beckoning, a carrot, not a sledgehammer. So God provides the life-saver, without which the man drowns, but won't force him to grab on and be saved. Augustine would famously put it this way:
"But He who made you without your consent does not justify you without your consent. He made you without your knowledge, but He does not justify you without you willing it.”

 

[Dave L]

The idea of total depravity is not totally wrong, just partially. The will of man is not dead, even if he cannot, on his own turn himself towards God. Man, simply, remains morally accountable-and this is what God appeals to. Otherwise He may as well have prevented Adam from sinning to begin with, or saved him immediately afterwards and either way precluded all the ugly evil: pain, suffering, sin, and death that followed in human history. Instead the evil that we experience-that we know-here on earth has a purpose, of helping us turn away from it and towards the true Good when He calls. The cross is a beckoning, a carrot, not a sledgehammer. So God provides the life-saver, without which the man drowns, but won't force him to grab on and be saved. Augustine would famously put it this way:
"But He who made you without your consent does not justify you without your consent. He made you without your knowledge, but He does not justify you without you willing it.”

But the problem is, free will = salvation by self-righteousness.

 

[Dave L]

Belief in Jesus is not self righteousness. It's the opposite, it is humility and throwing ourselves on God's mercy. The necessity of surrender coming first does not make one self righteous.

If faith comes from God, it is grace. If faith comes from us it is self-righteousness.

 

[corinth77777]

We're not regenerated first, as if our wills are completely dead and uninvolved. God calls and draws us, without forcing us to come. While fallen man needs help in order to turn to God to begin with, He can still always say "no".

I feel A little dumb ...did you state the answer and I missed it?

 

[fhansen]

But the problem is, free will = salvation by self-righteousness.

No, I t means we still have a tiny bit of sense left. Again it's impossible for man to be saved without Jesus's sacrifice. But he can refuse to be saved anyway .The human will is a small but essential part of God's plan for restoring justice to His wayward creation, only because He sovreignly deemed that should be so. Remember, if man refuses to be saved it's because he prefers dark to light.

 

[Dave L]

No, I t means we still have a tiny bit of sense left. Again it's impossible for man to be saved without Jesus's sacrifice. But he can refuse to be saved anyway .The human will is a small but essential part of God's plan for restoring justice to His wayward creation, only because He sovreignly deemed that should be so. Remember, if man refuses to be saved it's because he prefers dark to light.

Free will = salvation by self-righteousness. Only "good" people would want to pal around with God.

 

[Loren T.]

Free will = salvation by self-righteousness. Only "good" people would want to pal around with God.

He keeps saying, despite the fact that Jesus commended people for their faith. There's a difference between being irresistibly regenerated and being convicted by the spirit of your sin and choosing repentance.

 

[corinth77777]

Is the justification status regeneration ?

I think I get it...I had to go back to recall why I asked the question...

 

[Dave L]

He keeps saying, despite the fact that Jesus commended people for their faith. There's a difference between being irresistibly regenerated and being convicted by the spirit of your sin and choosing repentance.

But......Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit one must have before biblical faith can exist.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)

 

[corinth77777]

Question; why did you capitalize Spirit?

Your spirit is saved when it is “born again/born from above”. Your spirit is saved when it become “a new creation and all things become new.” You aren’t a ‘thing’ and you didn’t become ‘all new’ with only the salvation of your "new creation" spirit. If your body was fat, ugly, sick when you said 'yes' it will still be so the next day. And your 'stinkin thinkin' soul will still have all the old "strongholds" of thought concerning things..... 'until' you start tearing down those old arguments and thinking processes contrary to true knowledge of God. IOW you are 'putting on the mind of Christ' and having "Christ formed in you" as you do so. AND with your saved...holy spirit of Christ in you....you are working on the progressive salvation of your soul (mind, will, emotions) until the day you're dead....or you become "perfect".

This is spoken to 'the church'.
2CO 10:4 for the weapons of our warfare are not worldly but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5 We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

But if you died right after saying YES for the first time, you will still ‘go to heaven’ because you have 100% of the righteousness of Christ ‘imputed’ into your ‘go to heaven account'. Now, as much as you 'withdraw' from that account and 'walk' in will determine NOT GOING TO HEAVEN, but instead the degree to which you work out the salvation of your soul. And 'that' will determine the 'REWARDS IN HEAVEN' which you will receive.

Didn't mean to capitalize

 

[Loren T.]

But......Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit one must have before biblical faith can exist.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)

Misquote. It's actually faithfulness.
Galatians 5:22-23 Amplified Bible
22 But the fruit of the Spirit [the result of His presence within us] is love [unselfish concern for others], joy, [inner] peace, patience [not the ability to wait, but how we act while waiting], kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.