Will Bidens DOJ Charge And Prosecute Donald J. Trump With Insurrection For Jan 6th, In Final Attempts To Remove Him From His 2024 Presidential Bid?

[JSRG]

Um, what?

Lookup "seditious conspiracy guilty Jan 6"
Don't search on Fox News or OAN, or Brietbart.
Just do a general Google search of the internet.

Seditious conspiracy is a separate charge from insurrection, and the Fourteenth Amendment only applies to the latter ("No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.")

Insurrection (or more properly, "Rebellion or insurrection") is found in the US Code Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 115 § 2383:
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

www.law.cornell.edu

Seditious conspiracy, on the other hand, is found in US Code Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 115 § 2384:
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

www.law.cornell.edu

Some have been charged with seditious conspiracy as you noted, but it's a separate charge from Rebellion or insurrection (even if they are similar and listed next to each other), and I don't think anyone has been charged with "Rebellion or insurrection".

 

[rambot]

Do you support sexuality in public libraries "for children" as seen below?​

Some Libraries Are Facing Backlash Against LGBT Programs — And Holding Their Ground​

November 15, 2018

Drag queen storytimes and other LGBT programs are meant to create safe spaces for the queer community. The librarians running them are getting death threats.

Do you believe death threats against these librarians are a good thing?

 

[stevil]

Seditious conspiracy is a separate charge from insurrection, and the Fourteenth Amendment only applies to the latter ("No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.")

Insurrection (or more properly, "Rebellion or insurrection") is found in the US Code Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 115 § 2383:
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

www.law.cornell.edu

Seditious conspiracy, on the other hand, is found in US Code Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 115 § 2384:
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

www.law.cornell.edu

Some have been charged with seditious conspiracy as you noted, but it's a separate charge from Rebellion or insurrection (even if they are similar and listed next to each other), and I don't think anyone has been charged with "Rebellion or insurrection".

I can't understand the difference.

Seditious Conspiracy
"conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States"

Insurrection
"Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States"

Jan 6 would qualify as both, as they are the same.
Masses of people attacked the Capitol in order to try to prevent the transfer of power to the newly elected president.
Jan 6 was an attack/invasion/rebellion on government property against the authority of the United States, to forcibly change/overthrow the government

 

[JSRG]

I can't understand the difference.

There is clearly a difference given that they are separate crimes.

Seditious Conspiracy
"conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States"

Insurrection
"Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States"

Seditious Conspiracy has a longer definition than what you are quoting. Here is the whole thing again:

"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."

Note particularly the bolded. These are far easier to justify than the claims someone was overthrowing, putting down, or destroying by force the government. Some of the possible definitions appear to overlap with insurrection or rebellion, but others do not.

Jan 6 would qualify as both, as they are the same.
Masses of people attacked the Capitol in order to try to prevent the transfer of power to the newly elected president.
Jan 6 was an attack/invasion/rebellion on government property against the authority of the United States, to forcibly change/overthrow the government

There have been hundreds of individuals charged--not sure of the exact number, I know it's over 800, but those numbers come from last year and it may have gotten higher. As far as I am aware--someone may correct me--none of the individuals were charged with insurrection. I don't know how many different prosecutors were involved in this, but there were presumably a good number of them. I would presume that they have a fairly strong understanding of United States law, and they appear to have unanimously rejected the idea that it was proper to charge anyone with rebellion or insurrection. Heck, only a few even got seditious conspiracy.

 

[stevil]

There is clearly a difference given that they are separate crimes.



Seditious Conspiracy has a longer definition than what you are quoting. Here is the whole thing again:

"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."

There are a bunch of "or"'s in there, meaning it doesn't have to have everything.

There have been hundreds of individuals charged--not sure of the exact number, I know it's over 800, but those numbers come from last year and it may have gotten higher. As far as I am aware--someone may correct me--none of the individuals were charged with insurrection. I don't know how many different prosecutors were involved in this, but there were presumably a good number of them. I would presume that they have a fairly strong understanding of United States law, and they appear to have unanimously rejected the idea that it was proper to charge anyone with rebellion or insurrection. Heck, only a few even got seditious conspiracy.

It's beside the point.
There were several people charged with Seditious Conspiracy. Insurrection and Seditious Conspiracy are very similar.
The president himself is in a different position to those that raided the Capital. D Trump wasn't there because his driver refused to take him there. However, many at the capital were saying they were there at the direction of the president, they were glued to their devices, awaiting his orders.

He didn't bother to tell them to stop, not for over 3 hours. Before he finally told them they were patriots.

 

[Fantine]

The article you referenced mentioned librarians receiving "death threats."

Anti-LGBT who would launch death threats against librarians do not have the necessary judgment, morals, or ethics to determine what is appropriate for children.

If you look at lists of books that have been banned for the most innocuous of reasons you can see that many activists want to go far beyond "drag story times." Many of the authors are award winners. Many are people of color whose truth telling is threatening and offensive to conservative extremists.

We live in a pluralistic society, and if you want to prevent your children from obtaining certain materials, you, as the parent, can go to the library with them and supervise and discuss the materials they read. Censorship is not the answer.

 

[JSRG]

There are a bunch of "or"'s in there, meaning it doesn't have to have everything.

That was my entire point. This negates your claim of them being the same, because things that don't qualify for insurrection or rebellion do count as seditious conspiracy.

It's beside the point.
There were several people charged with Seditious Conspiracy. Insurrection and Seditious Conspiracy are very similar.

Many crimes are similar to each other. They are still separate crimes.

The president himself is in a different position to those that raided the Capital. D Trump wasn't there because his driver refused to take him there. However, many at the capital were saying they were there at the direction of the president, they were glued to their devices, awaiting his orders.

Even if Trump literally told them to go there and commit the crimes they did, none of them were charged with insurrection or rebellion. How exactly can Trump be held to have committed a crime if the people he supposedly told to commit that crime were not considered guilty of that crime?

If you tell someone to commit a crime for you, both you and they are guilty of that crime, but you aren't somehow guilty of a crime different than the one you asked them to commit.

He didn't bother to tell them to stop, not for over 3 hours. Before he finally told them they were patriots.

That might be poor judgment, but as far as I am aware is not a crime.

 

[Hans Blaster]

So the 1000's who was charged with "formally accused of “sedition,” “treason,” or “insurrection,”" Yeah..

So no nothing will happen ever with president Trump. One could say the same for Biden

First only about 1100 people have been charged for Jan 6, so it's not exactly "1000s".

Second the number of those charged with treason is 0 (zero) and with insurrection is 0 (zero).

Third the number charged with seditious conspiracy is about 30. All were part of the "Proud Boys" or "Oath Keepers" groups.

 

[The Barbarian]

Granted, this, along with the supposed "stolen" 2020 election, is all based on the idea that the Democratic Party is exceptionally organized and meticulously efficient as to carry off this brilliantly machiavellian plot without a trace of evidence to be found.

As a life-long democrat, and a resident of one of the most durably democratic states in the nation, I have only one response:

"I don't belong to an organized political party; I'm a democrat." - Will Rogers

 

[The Barbarian]

Even if Trump literally told them to go there and commit the crimes they did, none of them were charged with insurrection or rebellion. How exactly can Trump be held to have committed a crime if the people he supposedly told to commit that crime were not considered guilty of that crime?

If you tell someone to commit a crime for you, both you and they are guilty of that crime, but you aren't somehow guilty of a crime different than the one you asked them to commit.

Some of the insurgents have openly admitted they were following Trump's orders. No point in denial.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Some of the insurgents have openly admitted they were following Trump's orders. No point in denial.

Others have tried to escaped culpability (or at least a stiff sentence) with "Trump told me to do it and they haven't prosecuted him!!!"

 

[The Barbarian]

Others have tried to escaped culpability (or at least a stiff sentence) with "Trump told me to do it and they haven't prosecuted him!!!"

There is no honor among insurgents, apparently.

 

[Hank77]

I can't understand the difference.

This article was helpful to me, maybe it could be to you as well.

Understanding Insurrection and Sedition

CSIS security experts define acts of sedition and insurrection and evaluate the seriousness of both charges.

www.csis.org