Trump says on Univision that if he wins, he is allowed to weaponize FBI, DOJ against his political enemies

SimplyMe

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Well it's clearly based on his belief that he's being persecuted by the government.

I think more importantly, since the left appears to have decided to not give it's own voters a choice in President nominees...and wants to jail their biggest competition, we don't really need to worry about "what would happen to our democracy" if Trump gets elected. We don't have a democracy if we aren't given a real choice.

Is it a short memory or just hypocrisy that you are complaining about Democrats in 2024, after Republicans cancelled primaries in 2020 to protect Trump? Nor was it new in 2020, the parties get to do their primaries however they want -- these people become the parties' nominee and the party is allowed to choose them however they wish. It does not stop anyone from running if they want to, as they can always choose to run third party (as RFK, Jr has decided to do). Yes, the party that controls the White House often protects the current president to help their reelection, just like Democrats currently and Republicans in 2020.

From what I can tell, many states will have at least 5 candidates on the ballot -- that should give you plenty of choice. If you want to complain about the "party system" that the US uses, I'll likely agree with many of the complaints about how parties should not have so much control over US politics and who is running.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Is it a short memory or just hypocrisy that you are complaining about Democrats in 2024, after Republicans cancelled primaries in 2020 to protect Trump? Nor was it new in 2020, the parties get to do their primaries however they want -- these people become the parties' nominee and the party is allowed to choose them however they wish. It does not stop anyone from running if they want to, as they can always choose to run third party (as RFK, Jr has decided to do). Yes, the party that controls the White House often protects the current president to help their reelection, just like Democrats currently and Republicans in 2020.

From what I can tell, many states will have at least 5 candidates on the ballot -- that should give you plenty of choice. If you want to complain about the "party system" that the US uses, I'll likely agree with many of the complaints about how parties should not have so much control over US politics and who is running.

I'll give you this...that's a fair point. Republicans did scrap primaries in 2020. Not in all states...but enough to be noticed.


Mainly because Trump had an 88% approval rating amongst Republicans so it wasn't like he was going to get beaten.

Biden on the other hand is steadily downward....and it's not clear if he can rebound...


Amongst Democrats he still has about 75% though...so I'll concede the point you're making.

That doesn't change the problem of the dems trying to remove Trump from the ballots.
 
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SimplyMe

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I'll give you this...that's a fair point. Republicans did scrap primaries in 2020. Not in all states...but enough to be noticed.


Mainly because Trump had an 88% approval rating amongst Republicans so it wasn't like he was going to get beaten.

Biden on the other hand is steadily downward....and it's not clear if he can rebound...


Amongst Democrats he still has about 75% though...so I'll concede the point you're making.

That doesn't change the problem of the dems trying to remove Trump from the ballots.
I don't recall "Dems" trying to remove Trump from ballots. I won't say there are no Democrats that want Trump off the ballot but I've seen zero from the Democrats as a party. From what I recall, in the most likely case to block Trump from appearing on a ballot (in Colorado), the case was brought by four Republicans and two Independents (no Democrats).
 
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Ana the Ist

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Is it a short memory or just hypocrisy that you are complaining about Democrats in 2024, after Republicans cancelled primaries in 2020 to protect Trump? Nor was it new in 2020, the parties get to do their primaries however they want -- these people become the parties' nominee and the party is allowed to choose them however they wish. It does not stop anyone from running if they want to, as they can always choose to run third party (as RFK, Jr has decided to do). Yes, the party that controls the White House often protects the current president to help their reelection, just like Democrats currently and Republicans in 2020.

From what I can tell, many states will have at least 5 candidates on the ballot -- that should give you plenty of choice. If you want to complain about the "party system" that the US uses, I'll likely agree with many of the complaints about how parties should not have so much control over US politics and who is running.

I think perhaps the larger point I should be making is that everyone, on both sides, should consider the ramifications of the sort of rhetoric being thrown around.


Current polls show a majority of Dems would rather have a different candidate than Joe...but can't name one. That's a dying party. They're reheating this corpse for another election cycle, and if they force Trump off the ballot (arguably, a candidate people want) it's a recipe for violence.

And if you haven't noticed, the destruction of the police has been pretty thorough.

And the military is desperate for recruits....especially after losing so many to mandatory vaccinations.

And well...I'm sure I don't have to remind you the attitude of Democrats to the suggestion we shore up election procedures so at least the majority have confidence in elections. Even posters on here disagreed with the idea.

You don't see this as a potential recipe for violence?
 
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SimplyMe

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I think perhaps the larger point I should be making is that everyone, on both sides, should consider the ramifications of the sort of rhetoric being thrown around.


Current polls show a majority of Dems would rather have a different candidate than Joe...but can't name one. That's a dying party. They're reheating this corpse for another election cycle, and if they force Trump off the ballot (arguably, a candidate people want) it's a recipe for violence.

That's nice. I seem to recall similar things being claimed about Republicans just over a decade ago. In fact, I can remember the same being claimed about Democrats in the early 90s, when Pres. Bush had a huge lead in the polls -- shortly before Gov. Clinton showed up and spent 8 years in the White House. These types of thoughts always seem to be wishful thinking by the opposite party.

And if you haven't noticed, the destruction of the police has been pretty thorough.

It has? Odd, from 2020 to 2021 there was a drop of $870 million drop in police spending -- which sounds like a lot until you realize that was against a total nationwide budget of over $100 billion. So less than a 1% drop. And, on top of that, much of the cuts in spending were COVID related, as you didn't need huge amounts of police in areas where crowds were not supposed to gather.

More interestingly, almost all the push for "defunding police" today come from Republicans -- who want to defund the FBI, the DoJ, and reverse the increases in budget for the IRS to better go after high income tax cheats (where the government is actually gaining more money from the extra enforcement that the increase in their budget).

And the military is desperate for recruits....especially after losing so many to mandatory vaccinations.

Again, as has been pointed out, a very small percentage; 8,000 (from the numbers I see reported) of 1.4 million service members. It was always known with a declining number of youth that the military would have a harder time recruiting the numbers needed -- it has been talked about since the 80s when I was in the military.

And well...I'm sure I don't have to remind you the attitude of Democrats to the suggestion we shore up election procedures so at least the majority have confidence in elections. Even posters on here disagreed with the idea.

From what I've seen, it depends on the "procedures." Yes, shoring up procedures to make it harder for individuals to vote -- particularly when the proposals have been shown in studies to make no difference, other than to lower the numbers voting -- have been opposed. Ideas to totally scrap election machines and count elections by hand have also been opposed, for the simple fact that it again makes the counting more difficult, less secure and accurate, etc.

More to the point, so long as you have the "leader" (as the likely Presidential nominee) claiming that the voting systems do not work, regardless of what changes have been created -- particularly claiming that is Republican states that are cheating for Democrats -- no change that you can make to the voting system will give confidence in elections. Particularly with Trump already claiming that there will likely be cheating in the 2024 election, even with all the changes and before any votes are even cast.

You don't see this as a potential recipe for violence?

What I see is "fearmongering," regardless of which side is doing it, as being a recipe for violence.
 
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wing2000

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Well what do you consider political persecution?

Would you consider, for example, the blacklisting of communists during the McCarthy Era to be "political persecution"?

Holding a person accountable for their criminal behavior is not political persection.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Holding a person accountable for their criminal behavior is not political persection.

Ok...

This government has been ruled liable for the most egregious violation of citizens' civil rights since Jim Crow. All judges agreed the case is likely to succeed on its merits.

In his 155-page ruling, Doughty wrote: "The Plaintiffs are likely to succeed on the merits in establishing that the Government has used its power to silence the opposition. Opposition to COVID-19 vaccines; opposition to COVID-19 masking and lockdowns; opposition to the lab-leak theory of COVID-19; opposition to the validity of the 2020 election; opposition to President Biden’s policies; statements that the Hunter Biden laptop story was true; and opposition to policies of the government officials in power. All were suppressed. It is quite telling that each example or category of suppressed speech was conservative in nature. This targeted suppression of conservative ideas is a perfect example of viewpoint discrimination of political speech. American citizens have the right to engage in free debate about the significant issues affecting the country.

He continued: "If the allegations made by plaintiffs are true, the present case arguably involves the most massive attack against free speech in United States' history. The plaintiffs are likely to succeed on the merits in establishing that the government has used its power to silence the opposition."


So...while this next part might sound a little harsh, I'll try to be considerate with my words...

By this time next year we'll know if the left is the fascist party that we should be concerned about or not.

This has been speed run to the SCOTUS and they promised to rule on it. Nobody but the gullible public left think the Twitter files and vast amount of government coercion to suppress the political views of US citizens isn't a problem.

I understand that if you or anyone else reads left wing media primarily....you probably thought it was marginal or a "nothing burger" but that's not the case. Every judge has agreed with the original opinion. One injunction was made to allow for valid threats on social media (the government is still able to pursue those) but in the meantime, if they continue....then you're just supporting the people who are engaging in political persecution.

So...a couple of quick questions....

Are you really concerned about justice and holding people accountable? Because I saw this administration's head of civil rights claim she had never heard of this case. There's no accountability on the left.

Are you genuinely worried about a dictatorship under Trump? Is it because you think that's likely or possible? Is it because you are afraid he'll attack your rights the same way the left attacked the rights of conservatives?

Do you think any guilt of Trump, for any actions, related to January 6th are in any way remotely comparable for the widespread suppression of political views and spreading of lies and misinformation by the left at the behest of the government that's been happening for years?

Did at any point you wonder if you were the fascists when accusing people of fascism?

Did you even know about this case? Did your preferred media gloss over it or dismiss it?

@wing2000 I'm not just asking you of course....anyone on the left here in the thread is free to answer any of the questions asked
 
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FenderTL5

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Ok...

This government has been ruled liable for the most egregious violation of citizens' civil rights since Jim Crow. All judges agreed the case is likely to succeed on its merits.

In his 155-page ruling, Doughty wrote: "The Plaintiffs are likely to succeed on the merits in establishing that the Government has used its power to silence the opposition. Opposition to COVID-19 vaccines; opposition to COVID-19 masking and lockdowns; opposition to the lab-leak theory of COVID-19; opposition to the validity of the 2020 election; opposition to President Biden’s policies; statements that the Hunter Biden laptop story was true; and opposition to policies of the government officials in power. All were suppressed.
Yet those are the topics perpetuated daily in conservative media, social circles and public dialogue.
I'm puzzled how narratives that are so pervasive within our society can be said to have been silenced.
 
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The Barbarian

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Yet those are the topics perpetuated daily in conservative media, social circles and public dialogue.
I'm puzzled how narratives that are so pervasive within our society can be said to have been silenced.
The far right has an addiction to feeling persecuted. When even crazy conspiracy theories are found on network television, the internet and print media, no one in his right mind would say that the purveyors of these stories were silenced.
 
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The Barbarian

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It's not as if he has any strong competition. Still, no choice given.
You're entitled to run for office; you aren't entitled to demand that people vote for you. That's how democracy works.
 
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The Barbarian

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Turns out, that if the republicans want, they can still run Trump, even if he's found guilty of any or all of those indictments.

True...but it's now clear they want him off the ballot as well.
About 1/3 do. But he's still way ahead of any non-criminal candidate.
 
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Laodicean60

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The banana republic has many fathers.
I like the Dallas Cowboys and I don't care how much cocaine they snort as long as they win! To me, that's the mentality. While the fans suffer.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Yet those are the topics perpetuated daily in conservative media, social circles and public dialogue.

Well they were shown to be censored by the government on certain media and platforms.


I'm puzzled how narratives that are so pervasive within our society can be said to have been silenced.

Whether or not they were silenced completely doesn't make any difference.

The government has no right to censor political speech for their expressed biased opinion.

I mean...it's not included in the lawsuit, but they were sending FBI to intimidate parents unhappy with their school boards. This government has been more blatantly oppressive to US citizens than any in my lifetime.

The number of people in this administration guilty of these things spans multiple agencies/departments.
 
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